War of the Sontarans

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody and Terra, the only Doctor Who flash cast that's still wondering how Mr. and Mrs. Lewis knew it was called a probic vent.

They'd probably seen the Time Warrior.

I'm Nathan.

I'm Todd.

I'm pizza.

And I'm Simon.

So we're here just a few hours.

Well, you know, maybe 50 hours after watching, not quite that many.

After watching episode two, chapter two, I should say, of Flux, which was unpromisingly titled War of the Santarans by Chris Chipnell.

And I am going to ask the question I ask every week.

How do we think the episode went?

And given that Brendan and his His much beloved brand of optimism about this era isn't here.

I'm going to start with Peter.

[01:00]

I thought this was the most broadly enjoyable Doctor Who that Chipmull has ever written.

Um, episode writing just seems to suit him more.

They were diverting throw away ideas like the TARDIS with no doors.

I like the splitting of the story threads amongst the regulars.

It meant that it moved and it cut between things and Dan got the comedy.

Jody got the darkness.

Yaz got the exposition.

So, you know, everyone had something to do.

Those are genders rather than roles, aren't they?

And it just suited Jody, by the way.

I wish the doctor had had this classic sort of combination of gravitas and sarcasm at any point of the last 2 seasons.

She even gets some business with pretending that she's not the doctor to the Santarans.

And I think it was just a lighter touch than we've had in a long time.

What about you, Simon?

Look, I have to agree.

I was, really, dissatisfied with last week's.

[02:03]

It left me cold.

It was sound and fury signifying nothing.

I just couldn't get engaged with it and I didn't care about it.

This week, though, is an amazing contrast, I was gripped from the very beginning.

Um, I mean, I think the story builds really well and there's a proper sense of mystery rather than just stuff going on that we don't understand.

You actually are interested in the stuff that you don't understand.

Um, swarm.

What a sensational villain.

I mean, he was fine last week.

I sort of thought, I guess, but this week he is the perfect Doctor Who villain, the actor walks that beautiful fine line between being arch and a bit camp whilst also being menacing rather than just looking ridiculous.

It does that great kind of standing with his hand on his tips like Quillum from vengeance on Zara.

Yes, and the stance and the shoulder pads and the little sachet he does as he walks down the stairs in the in the in the temple. absolutely superb.

And having, as Peter said, that block of time where a proper block of time where the companions are separated from the doctor.

[03:08]

And just to sort of answer, your point will extend your point, Peter, about Jody being really good.

I think that's because she's not being surrounded by the companions, which she sort of is, especially because there's been so many of them at once.

Um, I think a doctor needs to be out by themselves with, you know, meeting new people because that's where I think they can express those parts of themselves, the, the, the sarcasm and that the, you know, the snarkiness, um, without constantly looking like they're being rude to the companions.

I just think it just worked really well.

And having a cliffhanger, a proper cliffhanger, that builds up in the final moments.

I mean, I really felt like I was 10 years old again.

Mm, that cliffhang was great.

It had a sort of inferno, I want to say five.

Yes.

Where there's a countdown.

And doesn't you hear the finger click after we go into the closing credits?

It's terrible again.

That's not cheated next week where the finger is not clicked.

Someone just says...

Oh, I was kidding.

I was kidding.

[04:10]

And Todd.

I ask myself, what would Terence Dix do?

And so I said 8 out of 10.

It was really, really good.

You know, and I agree with everything that both Peter and Simon have said.

I love the swarm, villain, and his sister, they are just, they, they pitched perfectly.

I love that they were all split up.

The throwback to things like links.

I thought that was just lovely.

There was tumour.

The Santarians had never been better or I think explored better, you know, in terms of, you know, the use of the probic vent and their and their whole operation on what's going on.

I just really liked all of that stuff.

I mean, I've got some quibbles over a few things, but I actually thought the doctor was written really well, and that's what's really held back, Jody.

[05:11]

If, and I said off, um, of this earlier that, you know, had this been like her 3rd or 3rd or 4th episode.

I would have a completely different opinion of both her doctor and Chris Chibnon.

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah, I mean, I really, really liked it.

I think 60 minutes is probably slightly too long.

Um, but, and like I have to say that I, I, given what he was attempting to do last week, I kind of like last week as well.

But what I thought was really good here.

I had originally thought the structure would be, here's a bunch of act ones, you know, going from place to place and a big exciting space thing happening.

And then we would have the Sontarian episode and we'd have the, God knows what episode and we'd have the Weeping Angels episode and we'd have, you know, die trapped in a house episode.

And then we'd all be back together at the end of this episode.

Yeah, terrible episode.

And then we'd all be back at the end for the Armageddon factor, you know, and it would all go to hell.

[06:17]

And what surprised and delighted me was that, um, it's not going to be like that.

It is a little bit more like his serialised stuff.

It's a little bit more like Broadchurch, where there's a kind of main focus and a satisfactory arc, you know, a thing happens and gets resolved and stuff, but there's other stuff going on still keeping the central mystery going.

And also the, and also each episode is about something like, yeah, this is this on Tara next episode, and obviously next week's going to be the start of an episode, but you don't feel that the overarching story is just grafted on.

Um, you know, and in the last 60 seconds in the 1st 60 seconds with a sort of an episode in the middle.

It's, it's, it's effectively, effectively, the Santarian story is the B plot of this episode.

And next week it'll be something else.

And I think the problem with last week's in comparison was that it was all the B plots all smoosh together and you couldn't work out.

What am I supposed to be focussed on here?

[07:17]

Because you still get like early in this episode when Yaz arrives in the temple.

You get the guy from 1820 appearing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whereas we have, we haven't had the moment.

Yeah, yeah, we haven't had the angel woman the turn up this time.

So maybe, maybe, maybe some of last week's introduction could have been scattered into this week's and I think it would have improved last week's a little bit as a result.

But yeah, I was really, really surprised, but...

And the villains are folded in well.

The swarm kind of make an interesting appearance and play an interesting kind of minor role until the end.

Yeah.

So can we talk, can we talk about the Santarans?

We did touch on that sort of fairly briefly, but Peter, what do you think of them in this episode?

Um, I, I agree with what Todd was saying earlier about the fact that they are actually really well done.

And it's interesting because Chibinal apparently had his issues with 80s Doctor Who.

This is on record.

But he minds the 80s.

[08:19]

So these Santarans are much more like the 2 doctors, Santarans, than they are like lynx or Styre.

And I'm not on board with that because I like the 2 doctors Sontarians.

Um, I just think that they're really well done.

You know that this whole story must have been inspired by that one line in the time warrior about finding our bold warrior a horse because that's like the takeaway image.

From the episode, is the Santaran turning up on the horse and then he actually gets the line about I just wanted to ride a horse.

It's so properly funny, like a properly funny line.

Complete with a slight Scottish hat.

But you get you get like the commander Santarans, who are very warlike, but, you know, they can have that conversation with the doctor, and then you've got the soldier one, who's actually quite funny and Pat's a bit more, um, like stracks a bit.

But I just thought they were all really good.

And I really, really liked Housefilled Dan Starkey, Sonter, and called the doctor, Doctor, which is... all good villains do.

[09:25]

I just wish he'd picked up on Mrs. Seacole's wording and called her doctress.

I was terrified that they were going to be boring because Chibnall took the, you know, took the sidemen and made them boring and and I just thought it was going to be, oh, you know, they'll be a warrior race and they'll be just super tedious.

But last week they were funny.

And then this week they were properly funny.

And, you know, they were created by Bob Holmes and they've always been a bit crummy.

And, you know, it was Bob Holmes making fun of colonialism and pomposity and stuff like that.

And so this was great.

I thought that they were really really good.

And that central conceit where the Dr. lands in a place where the Crimean War is being fought against Sontarans, and no one's ever heard of the Russians.

That's incredibly good.

That's so good.

Yeah, it's what sort of casually interesting ideas, though, just littered around.

[10:29]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's like a new adventures idea.

It's not like a classic series idea at all.

It is a very ambitious idea.

I also think, you know, you mentioned that Tartis has no doors before.

I just sort of think that's so so simple and so clever. frightening.

I thought that was one of the really arresting images from last week's episode where they went in the doors. and they were coming out of the floor.

It was just, and there wasn't really dwelt upon, but it was just, you know, an interesting moment in the episode.

Simon, what did you think?

About the Santara.

Well, I liked them.

I thought, I thought they had enough seriousness is, they weren't just silly and stupid.

Like, I think there needs to be both 2 sides of the coin and I think, um, They did that here.

I particularly like the brutality that you see, the fact that they execute 3 people in Liverpool, um, for trespassing and then, you know, they're they're shooting the wounded in Crimea, um, you know, nishing them off.

[11:33]

I mean, it's quite dark and quite brutal.

And I've sort of, that was quite refreshing, I thought, for more Doctor Who. kind of body count.

Yeah, although mind you, the killing the people on Liverpool docks is kind of a riff from Riff on the Stolen Earth, isn't it?

Yeah, it's also just a Saturday night in Liverpool.

Oh, dear, we're going to get in terrible trouble with people from the north again this week.

Speaking of which, Todd, what did you?

You've already said something about the Santarans, but was there something else you wanted to add?

Well, they weren't very good shots when they were coming after Dan, weren't they?

And it was very convenient that his little dog friend saved him, but the 3 people on the docks, their dog friends are still up in the spaceships and couldn't care less.

Is that right?

don't know.

I would have minor things, really.

Yeah, I would have thought that race good at military strategy would consider kind of going to sleep in shifts.

[12:39]

In ships, yeah, not on the same 7.5 minute life.

But, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's no Doctor Who that isn't vulnerable to this kind of comedy, I think.

And all right.

So, look, um, we're nearly kind of nearing the end, I do, however, want to talk about how we feel sort of generally about where this is going.

I think I've said my piece here, but Todd, how are you feeling?

Are you optimistic?

If it continues like this, I will be.

I was very concerned last week, you know, as to how this is, how this is going to play out.

I mean, I'm still a bit confused. like you know, Dan went back to his time zone, but for some reason, Yaz had to go to the Planet of Time, why did she go there of all places?

That seems very convenient?

And then we sort of had that whole, um, mystery with the Magara, the Magara like voices and what and what sort of looked like the board from the 5 doctors with, you know, the temple and all that sort of thing.

[13:49]

So, I mean, I find it intriguing.

Um, and it looks wonderful.

And I just hope it can pay off in the end.

So, again, I mean, you know, I said at the beginning of this.

I think it's, I think it's a really solid episode and one of his best efforts and certainly for writing for the doctor.

Um, can it be sustained?

I mean, ultimately, you know, we will find out and that will affect my final opinion, but if it continues like this, I'm going to be very pleased with this.

What do you think, Simon?

I hope it continues like this, but also have it varies.

I mean, one of my problems with Broadchurch is that, um, I found it quite repetitive, like they'd introduce a, a new red herring each week as to, and you gradually worked around each member of the village as to who might have possibly been the murderer, and I hope we just don't get a sort of a rinse and repeat of this episode.

What I hope is that stylistically, each episode varies a bit.

I'd like to see a quieter, spookier one.

[14:51]

Um, I worry that we'll just get this kind of loud, obnoxious action, over and over again.

But look, I've been, my faith has been restored this week in a way that I worried last week. just was not going to be.

That spooky thing.

What about that house that Jody saw?

Oh, yes.

Yes, what the hell's that about?

What was that?

More of that.

Well, obviously we're going back there. that's going to be quite cool.

I think I get the sense like the Angels episode is probably going to be something like that.

The Angel episode is going to be a bit spookier and and more mysterious.

I just want them to turn the frigging volume down on the soundtrack on the music.

I don't know whether there was more than about 5 seconds where there was no music, but, you know.

I did explain either on flights through entirety or on last week's episode that the soundtrack is loud in the mix because we're old.

Peter.

I don't know.

It's all right, Simon.

Peter.

[15:53]

I feel like I've been a couple of steps ahead of the series for a few years and now I feel like the series is actually one step ahead of me again and I really like that.

I'm really not sure where it's going and it could go in any number of directions and I'm on board with finding out.

Okay.

Fantastic.

All right.

And also, I suddenly noticed that Vinder is very hot.

Oh, extraordinary.

He does great waking up acting.

What about jam?

Well, I mean, you know, I'm still a nice thing to say about Carpanista.

I have to say that nothing will ever, ever topple Chrissy Jackson and her stiletto heal from her pedestal when it comes to dispatching Santarans.

But the wok does come a close second.

And I love...

But his parents as well.

Like they've both got frying pans.

It's adorable.

I just think it's so good.

[16:53]

And I'm just saying, I really feel sorry for his mother because in real life, she's only 9 years older than him.

I was going to say, I mean, he's 55 and I was, I bet those actors playing his parents are at roughly the same age as he is.

She was 63.

He's a young looking 55.

The guy who plays the leads on tar and is 64 as well.

I mean, you know, that's very, actually just, yeah.

I was just fixed by the constantly saying fist.

I just couldn't quite make that sound in my in my in my mouth. pissed.

It's so great It's, it's, it's indescribable.

Oh, we're doing this every week, aren't we?

All right.

Okay.

Do we have any, does anyone have any kind of closing remarks, I guess?

Oh, this looks beautiful.

Yeah.

[17:54]

Sorry, Todd.

No, no, I agree.

It looks beautiful.

I think the Mise en Seine is um not as Spartan underpopulated as some of the Chipmolera episodes have been like, I can think if it takes you away off the top of my head.

It really looked kind of, um, full and well produced and, you know, often people say cinematic and I don't buy it, but I think it did.

Todd?

Yes, and it had intrigue, it had humour.

It had gravitas, um, And the doctor was well written and that really helped Jody's performance.

Brilliant.

I just think it's something that I recognised as Doctor Who in a way that I haven't recognised for a little while.

Agreed.

Press my buttons.

All right, well, uh, I have some things to plug then in that case.

So, uh, we are currently on flight through entirety in the middle of um, uh, series 6 of, um, Doctor Who.

[19:04]

And uh, so we'll be doing Night Terrace next Sunday, which I'm kind of excited to rehear.

Brendan has mere moments ago posted his walk to work with Whittaker and he's wearing a singlet, so you'll all want to tune in and see that.

He's not walking to work.

He's walking home from the gym.

No, to the gym.

And you'll hear about that on the video as well.

It's terribly good, and you get to wonder whether he makes it across the road every time he crosses the road.

So there's that.

Frogger, isn't it?

It's so terrifying.

It's super anxiety provoking.

We are also on maximum power, which is about midway through series one of Blake 7.

Okay, no one's correcting me.

Fine.

And in a future. was last Sunday, yeah.

No, okay.

I refuse to call it series A. And Untitled Star Trek Project will be back this Friday with a Deep Space 9 episode, which is House of Quark.

[20:09]

So you can...

Yeah, yeah.

It's I really liked it.

So that's me and friend of the podcast, Joe Ford.

So, if there's nothing more to say, until next time, remember that rice pudding and hard liquor build morale. particularly unlimited rice pudding and unlimited hard liquor.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

See you soon.

Good night, doctor. for now.