Ascension of the Cybermen

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the only Doctor Who flash cast that makes other Doctor Who flash casts scream.

So we're kind of terrible.

I'm Nathan.

I'm James.

I'm Karen.

I'm Brandon.

And I'm Todd.

So this week we're here to discuss the 2nd last episode of the season, the 1st of the two-part season finale.

The egregiously named Ascension of the Cybermen.

Or as I like to call it, us clenching of the Zidman.

Of course you do, James.

And so I have a question.

And I want to ask, Todd, flying cyber drone heads or cyber shades.

Cyber shades.

Thanks.

I have a theory that every showrunner gets to introduce something massively stupid about the cybermen.

And so for RTD, it's cyber shades.

For Moffat, it's cyber brigadier and... those terrible cyber mats with the rat teeth.

[01:03]

Oh, they're great.

And obviously for Chibnal, it's the Flying Cyberdones.

Let's just talk about how we thought the episode went.

What did you think, Todd?

I liked it.

I love the cold intro into the opening credits.

I love the fact that Middle 8 was back.

I thought Jody was terrific.

I, the whole Brendan mystery thing intrigued me as it went along.

Um, and I like that clunky spaceship that Yasin Graham escaped in.

I thought that was great and those stupid cyber drone things were terrible.

But no, and I guess I guess the only thing that I was just a bit disappointed in is that we got absolutely no answers on anything, but, you know, that's the way it was going to be was all going to be set up, wasn't it?

But I liked it.

I really like that spaceship.

I have to say that's one thing I'm absolutely behind in this episode.

What did you think, Brendan?

Um, I'm with Todd. really enjoyed this one.

[02:04]

I actually really like the cyber drones because they are just something so ridiculous.

I can easily imagine Russell T. Dave is doing them.

The way I immediately rationalise them in my head is that they come from cybermen whose bodies have been destroyed and the heads have been repurposed into drones.

I think with the graphics used for them, there is a problem of scale.

Like sometimes they seem to be giant czar dogs, cyberheads and sometimes they seem to be regular sized heads.

But not to labour that point too much.

Also liked the design work.

The human's craft, the grav raft reminded me of the gravitron, if anyone remembers that from like fairs and festivals in Australia and probably beyond.

Um, And I like that we have a very organic split to the team, you know, Yasm Graham managed to get on the ship and Ryan doesn't.

I think Ryan is a bit underused in this set, but that's fine because it gives more time to Yaz and Graham, and they've been paired up a few times this season and I actually quite like the sort of gentle relationship between the 2 of them.

[03:15]

You know, they they sort of quietly encourage each other.

Um, which I very much enjoy.

If I had to pick one particular fault.

It's kind of related to Todd saying we don't get many answers this episode and it's just, that also means that our cliffhangers don't really come together. in a way that they often do if we have multiple cliffhangers in one of these 2 partters.

And that makes the ending feel a bit limp for me.

I also, as much as I love Sasha, I don't think he's doing his cliffhanger acting here.

He's just doing normal acting and he needs to do cliffhanger acting.

All right, okay, that's cool.

Karen, what did you think?

Well, I'm a bit easily pleased.

I love any new Doctor Who.

Um, I actually really did enjoy it.

I thought it was quite a, I suppose, a strong episode in a lot of ways.

I do agree the cyber drones are just, I had to actually bite my tongue so I didn't laugh.

That's a good thing when you're watching Doctor Who.

[04:15]

I know Doctor Who, you know, you laugh at it, but that wouldn't have been a good laugh.

Yeah, I mean, with Brendan on the gravitron thing, I was expecting someone to throw up and have it inch along the wall.

Apart from that.

Yeah, yeah, a really strong episode, and I really would love to find out Brendan's story.

Yeah.

You know, I've been wondering, Brendan's story for the last 20 something years.

You still bemused me, darling.

Yeah, Rod did turn to me and say, if you were Ginger, this would be really freaky.

That took me about now, would I think?

Well, not only am I not ginger.

Pretty bald.

Anyway, sorry, James.

So is so is Brendan by the end. they burnt off all his hair.

I really, I really enjoyed it.

Even the cyber drones, though I kind of wish they'd opened up and eaten the heads of some of those really irritating dregs of humanity.

[05:22]

Oh, they were so dull.

Apart from what's her face?

Yes, try and remember one of their names, James.

No, the actress.

The actrine. her name?

What is her name?

Julie Graham?

Yes, thank you.

She was in a Sarah Jane adventure.

Well, there's that, but also rather unloved.

I think it was like ITV or Channel 4 series called Bone Kickers.

Well, she did the survivor's reboot as well.

She was the lead in the survivors reboot.

She's a bloody good actor.

She was unleash your secrets to me.

I remember bone kickers.

Yeah, so overall, I enjoyed it.

Yeah.

Well, I'm going to be the one who, you know, pisses in everyone's cheerios today.

I actually think it was the weakest episode of the season.

And um, when I was, maybe I was in a bad mood on the Monday morning when I watch it, but I really, really thought it was terrible and I compared it to Brendan, um, as being similar to Ransco Av Colos.

[06:25]

And I was, I think maybe that's a bit unfair, although I did see someone online refer to it as Rand Score Avcolos with Cybermen.

So it wasn't just me.

Probably the same quarry.

And, and, and it was the thing where it's, it's just a bunch of fairly stale cliches. like, you know, um, cybermen marching people going from ship to ship.

And there was a chance at sort of world building, but it didn't seem to be taken, at least as far as the characters are concerned.

I don't think that there's anyone very interesting.

Everyone seems to be massively underwritten.

They have stupid space names.

What was the ratty-faced boy's name?

Yeah, lami or something.

Like it just ridiculous.

And I do think that the Brendan thing, that we should have been given some reveal in part one, that they should have given us something.

I will agree with you there.

[07:28]

I actually think that the Brendan thing, we needed some we needed some reveal.

We needed something to happen.

And I think, It was a bit frustrating at the end when it was sort of like, when Gallifre was revealed, I kind of went, oh, it's Gallifre, and then in my head I went, oh, I bet you the master's going to jump out and say nothing.

And that's exactly what he did.

He jumped out and said nothing.

Um, So that sort of was a bit of a...

I don't know.

Other people seem to really love that, but I was just there going, really like, we've just had to set up, set up, set up.

And that's, but I understand where you're coming from.

That's why I liked it, but I didn't particularly love it.

It's one of these things where I need to see where we're going with part 2 really.

Yeah, I mean, that cliffhanger is, you know, it's not hard.

You just write the words on the page.

Do you know what I mean?

It doesn't come from anywhere else in the story.

And so it just didn't strike me as all that great.

It's kind of a bit word-pearly, isn't it?

Yeah, little bit.

A little bit.

Like, oh, I mean, and also reminiscent of the whole Jack turning up to stall the plot of episode five.

[08:33]

But it would have kind of nice been nice if it had been like, you know, 20 minutes earlier.

So suddenly there's a bit of a jolting the storage, do you know what I mean?

And then we get some actual substance, but um, I don't want to, like rain on the whole thing because I did watch it twice and and and the 2nd time through actually, I actually quite liked Ravi and her, like she was good with Graham.

I thought she was really good.

I thought she was a standout.

Yeah, yeah.

Although, again, you know, like people are talking about the chemistry between them, but basically it's a 2 line exchange, you know, like we are kind of clutching at straws to try and get something out of that, you know, character stuff.

Um, Brendan, how did you feel the cybermen were presented this time?

Um, I continue to be intrigued by a shard.

Um, someone online, I think it could have been scribble script, Kevin, who, um, we've, um, we've quoted before, uh, described him as like a cyber groupie, and we discover in this episode that he was basically rejected for conversion, but sees that as, well, that means I'm meant to be above the cyberman.

[09:46]

And it's sort of a terry nation idea that the cybermen need a mouthpiece to be interesting, but kudos to Chris Jubinal.

It's something that hasn't been done on TV before.

But his name's not Tarrant.

But isn't it not Tarrant?

Or Croton.

Isn't a shard, an anagram of shard?

Yes apparently.

One of the many little in jokes.

What did you, what did you think of the side meant, Karen?

Well, in regards to Urshard, I like, I kind of find it a bit more creepy with part of his face.

I like the old cyberman, as in, let's go right back to the beginning, where you can still tell they're partly human, but you never see anything, whereas just seeing a bit of that dead face.

It's just, yeah, it's a good effect.

But yes, the reject with delusions of grandeur would be interesting to see if that pays off.

[10:46]

Yeah, yeah.

It's Chris Tribnell, so probably won't.

But these, I mean, the Simon, the, you know, the reenactment of that scene from Earthshock where they're all sort of marching through the thing is incredible.

I mean, it really is astonishing.

Do you see someone on Twitter rescored it with the music from Earth.

Fantastic.

Did they put Beryl Reed in there?

That's what it needed.

And an assistant floor manager with a clipboard.

Yeah, yeah.

And Dedrick to draw the fire.

Wasn't that early on, didn't they?

All those red shirts getting killed, isn't it?

When they started killing off them, I thought, well, none of the regulars are going to be any, in any real jeopardy this episode.

Originally, I thought Ryan was actually going to be in for it.

But then they sort of backed away from that.

But no, I'm with you, Karen.

I really like seeing a shard's face and his eye as well.

That really is creepy.

But I love this design of these, these, these new cyber troops.

Like, it's very revenge of the cyberman slash invasion.

[11:50]

I just love the more blockiness of the sides of that helmet.

They look great.

These little spikes they have.

Yeah, the spikes, I was going to say, they kind of give it a sort of samurai edge almost.

You know, it really properly feels like armour and it's it's a great upgrade to the nightmare and silver design, which I've never particularly taken to.

It's a bit sort of bland.

Their faces are a little bit too blank, I think.

And so, you know, giving them that the bun heads and things from invasion, I think, is probably an improvement.

The other thing I thought that was great in that scene is when all of the doors open along the corridor and they all open just impossibly, impossibly quickly, one after the other. looks so good.

It's one effect that paid off.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, the show looks incredible.

You know, like we criticise the cyber drones and stuff like that because I don't think they were all that well done.

But the cyber ships coming into land looked amazing.

You know, the spaceship, that big spaceship they're in.

[12:50]

The way that's realised, I think, is just incredible.

That Fraser looked very shocked, didn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Or sort of sort of Orion or something.

Like it had a real kind of, it was, it was good.

Like I like the idea of the cyber war, I think, but it just all seemed to be a bit too gun and a bit too sort of, you know, shooting things in space and stuff.

And it could have done with a few more gags.

Do any of you read the Titan?

Doctor Who comics?

There was a seriously did called supremacy of the cybermen?

Oh, nice.

In which the sidemen invade and take over, but Gallifrey and convert all the time laws.

Oh, about 4 or 5 years ago.

So it just is a bit reminiscent of that, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, like I just, I'm like, is that what they're doing?

I wouldn't mind it.

It was a good comic series, but it was, it just seemed like they, they were just, you know, doing a spare parts, kind of rip again.

[13:52]

So...

So, Brendan, you and I are going to disagree about the guest cast, is that right?

Um, well, look, I liked Julie Graham as well.

I thought the um, the 2 younger people with Ravio and Graham, I thought they were okay.

They're not particularly well sketched, but you know, you've got plucky beanie girl and um, gaunt, um, cynical guy, you know, that's really all they are.

There are 3 words. covering meth addict.

Yeah, so he's called Yedlami and I can look up her name.

She might be called Biscuit.

Yeah, she's she's biscuit, I think.

She's best.

That's so bad. they?

But that's the thing.

You got all these space names.

And then you've got Ethan.

Yes.

And he's the one whose name you could easily remember.

Yeah, and the thing is, I really, I really like him.

Yeah, he's he's given he doesn't have much lines are a lot to do, but he imbues himself with character, you know, he's interested in technology.

[15:00]

He can hotwire a cybership.

He's a bit cheeky with Ryan.

And at 1st I thought he was Alfred Enoch until I realised that Alfred Enoch is not like about 17, you know, he's about 30.

Not anymore.

But yeah, uh, he, Julie Graham was obviously a standout.

Ben Ethan, always nice to see, um, And I'll never get this right.

Ian McLenery from Game of Thrones, who plays Kosharmus.

Oh okay.

Yeah, the other 2 are a bit forgettable but inoffensive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, fair enough.

And how do you think the regular's fair this week?

Todd?

Um, Well, as I said, I thought Jody was absolutely terrific.

Ryan was hardly in it.

Um, Yaz and Graham.

We're fairly good if a bit preachy towards the others saying I'll buckle up and be positive.

Your younger brother died just a few hours ago.

[16:00]

Buckle up and be positive.

And your whole race is about to become extinct, but calm down.

Yeah, shut up Graham.

Rod really hated that.

I have to say I did too.

Yeah, no, terrible.

And what did you think of the regulars, James?

They were all terrible.

Okay, good.

This would be shocked.

Yeah, the B positive stuff got me a bit because, you know, when you're going through hell and someone's saying that to you, you just want to punch them in the face.

But, but, you know, they did, they did okay.

I agree.

Ryan was a bit underused, but maybe he's coming up in the next episode, who knows?

I think there's an attempt to get the Edlami to kind of like start enjoying himself when he gets on the cybership and starts to remember kind of, you know, nearly being killed on one or whatever and, you know, he starts to, he does actually start to cheer up.

But I do think that he, that Chibnell sets himself, a sort of unimaginable task of what, you know, 4 people left that doesn't seem to make any sense and, you know, we don't really properly seek to imagine what that world would be like for them.

[17:17]

To me.

And I've been feeling this for a while.

It seems like there are too many people in the TARDIS and not enough guest actors in a lot of episodes.

But Praxius didn't suffer from that.

Praxius was fine.

It depends who's writing.

Yeah, maybe that's true.

And what about the doctor this week?

I thought she was very rude to Raffio.

And I've been longing for her to be a bit ruder, but I thought, you know, I don't have to hear your life story. too rude.

Is that what she said?

I couldn't pick up that one.

Something like her.

Yeah, I don't have to hear your life story.

Yeah, it, yeah.

Have you finished your life story?

Yeah.

I thought Jody was great.

I thought she was great and everything that she did, whether it be humour or confronting people or just telling, you know, getting the spaceship and go, don't argue with me.

I was really impressed.

Yeah, I thought she was really good.

I think, you know, that opening sequence where the drones defeat all of their things.

[18:18]

I mean, you know, they've got 3 classic cybermen killing devices, you know, one with gold, one with a force field one with a, you know, like whatever, one with, did it spray nail polish remover or something like it was something like that.

And so obviously that was going to fail horribly.

Um, but just the kind of sudden desperation she was playing then.

Like she has been the real winner this season, I think, partly as she gets more comfortable maybe, but also, more importantly, people are writing her with and giving it something to do.

Yeah, a lot of people argue that she doesn't have the same impact as the other doctors, but I actually think she does.

And even when she's being quiet, she has a fair amount, whereas some of the other doctors just weren't quiet enough to have that impact, I guess.

I find her, she can be very forceful.

But I also agree with the little sort of the rude bits in between where I don't have to hear life story or, you know, just little off, the way she was with, um, oh, what's her name?

[19:22]

Raviio.

Raviio.

I was about to say ravioli.

Pointing that into the podcast. absolutely staying in, Karen.

I don't mind.

Unlike that ravioli you had earlier.

I was just going to say, look, I've long been off the opinion that part of Jody's character as the doctor is, you know, she wants to knock about and have fun and have a laugh, but there is this menace beneath the surface which comes out when the fam are not around and we saw it when she was dealing with Krasco and teasing the Dalek and teasing Ashad last week.

But this is the 1st time the fans see it in full force.

Like when they say when they kind of do their thing, which they've done a few times before, where each of them kind of gets a Huey, Dewey, Louis moment where they kind of sum up the situation one after the other where the doctor just turns around and screams at them.

I know.

Yeah, yeah.

And and they're quite and they're quite taken aback by that.

But, Yeah, I, I kind of think it's coming to the surface now that, The doctor is realising, you know, there's no peace for her.

[20:33]

She can't just knock about the universe and have fun because there's always going to be these things to deal with.

And it's exactly what Peter Capaldi's doctor was talking about at the end.

It's like, I am so tired of watching people die and dying myself.

And he's hoping the next time is going to be different and it was for a little bit, but it's going back the same way now.

So there's one more thing that we haven't talked about, and that is the mysterious Brendan.

So how did you feel those scenes went, Todd?

At first, I, well, actually, I was intrigued all the way through and it sort of built as it went along.

Um, And and and then when he got shot and survived that, I thought, where are they going with this?

So, and I just wanted to, I just wanted an answer, not just more questions.

But I am intrigued.

What about you, um, Brandon?

[21:33]

Um, yeah, I'm I'm similarly intrigued to Todd, and I've actually been talking to friends of the podcast.

Alex and Bob about this separately. and between the 3 of us, we've come up with some rather interesting theories, which I won't go into here, just to avoid any possibility of spoilers.

But it's just continued this thing of this year that of, there are so many things to think about in each episode.

And generally, it's not because things have been left out, but they've deliberately been left up to the viewer's imagination.

And that's what we're getting here.

So it really works for me.

But like Todd said earlier, I would have liked some kind of closure by the end of the episode.

It makes me wonder if this was designed to go out as a 90 minute special.

I think that this subplot, like, would have been better for part two, because then it could lead straight into the reveal.

Do you know what I mean?

Like that subplot reaches a big crisis and he's being, you know, electrocuted or put in a chameleon arch or whatever.

[22:36]

And, I mean, that's the way I think we've been programmed to think this, though.

That's the way that Moffat would do it.

You know, you'd have one episode which was quite linear and straightforward.

And then the next episode would start with something...

Seen more completely different from everything and you might end up with Brendan's whole story in 15 minutes without the regulars and then it would crash into the main drama.

Yeah.

Or that thing would lead straight into the reveal.

Like, we would find out the meaning of that almost immediately.

As it is, I can't see that we go back to that next time except in some dialogue.

Do you know what I mean?

And I just think that that's that's a weird kind of way of going about writing it, I think.

What do you think, Karen?

I liked, actually, just thinking about the, the intro, and then the, like the, the whole, I suppose, juxtaposition of it going back to seemingly the 1930s and the start of this story.

[23:37]

Um, Yeah, it's I, again, I am intrigued, and yeah, I think they should have answered some of the questions, but I like the little things in there, like when Brendan falls off the cliff, and he's, and he's superior's shocked that he gets up, and yet by the end of the episode, they've come to get him.

So was it a simulated life?

Who knows?

Isn't Gallifrey in Ireland?

Yes, yes.

Well, this episode, because this episode's actually shot in Ireland.

So that beach was in Ireland, and so Gallifrey is finally in Ireland.

That's absolutely true.

I thought that those scenes weren't all that interesting in themselves in the sense of incident.

But I did like the feel of them and the look of them a lot.

So that was that was something I am super apprehensive about what the resolution is next week.

I'm very worried.

The time lords are human.

Well, yeah, that would be okay, but...

[24:41]

But that might be kind of boring.

I don't know.

Anyway, we'll see.

We'll see.

I don't want to prejudge it.

Does anyone have any urgent closing statements?

I wish I'd actually seen the Cyberball.

You know, ever since Voger and the Planet of Gold, I've wanted the cyber war, but we sort of skirted around it.

It's either happened or it's right, you know, it's sort of at the end of it.

And I guess that's really what I wanted, but anyway, that's just a personal thing.

But, um, who knows what will happen next week?

He's just got to stick to landing now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, all right.

Well, we might end on that hopeful note.

I hope that was a hopeful note.

Yeah.

So and we will obviously be back next week.

For the massive 70 minute finale, which is called Last of the Time Lords.

What's it called?

The Timeless Children.

The Timeless Children.

It's called Death in Heaven, or possibly the Doctor Falls.

[25:42]

The Great Muppet Caper.

It's our 3rd bi-annual meeting of the Cybermen, the Master, and the Doctor to round off the series, and I'm here for that as a tradition.

It really is funny he's decided to do that.

I know.

It's just it seems like an extraordinary thing for him to want to try and compete with, actually.

And to bring in Gallifrey from the story that wasn't the master, the doctor, and the cyberman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I hate Gallifrey.

It does look like that none of those sofa survived, though.

So, yeah, we have that.

The ruins look very ruinous.

I've seen the BBC one trailer.

Oh, there are sofas, are there?

I'll have to check it.

Sof, no more.

Okay.

All right.

So, until next time, remember to keep your chin up and maintain that glass half full attitude, even when your entire species has been wiped out.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

[26:43]

Good night.

Good night.

Good night.

See you soon