The Haunting of Villa Diodati

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the only Doctor Who flashcast that travelled back in time to inspire the creation of Doctor Who itself.

No need to thank us.

I'm Nathan.

I'm James.

I'm Brendan.

I'm Todd.

And I'm Stephen.

So we have all spent the last few days learning how to pronounce the haunting of Villa Diodarte.

And we are ready to talk about it.

So Stephen, what did you think?

I thought this was the most enjoyable episode of Jody's reign since Rosa for me.

Wow, fantastic.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Todd, I've heard that you watch this one alone in a darkened room, weeping into a box of big finish audio CDs.

So what did you think?

Well, Nathan.

It's not quite true.

I've just got off a plane from LA where I watched this with 1500 other Doctor Who fans at the Gallifrey one convention.

[01:02]

And I have to say watching it with 1500 other people was just an amazing experience.

Um, I thought this episode was absolutely phenomenal.

And, uh, Um, like Stephen, I think this is the best episode since of her since Rosa, she was absolutely fantastic the moment she said, well, she, she said a lot of things to quite a few men and put them in their places.

The highlight of which was like, this is not a flat structure in terms of hierarchy, which I just thought was brilliant.

And I have to give kudos to an episode where the valet almost steals the show.

It must have been amazing watching it with an audience because the valet did just the most amazing comedy bits that were so well judged.

Like the laughter throughout, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

It was funny, don't you think, Todd?

Oh, that's, but that's what I love in Doctor Who, is the fact that when you have something that is so captivating and on edge of, edge of your seat and thrilling that, that in those, those, those moments of sheer terror that you get the humour and I, and I think that's something the Doctor Who um, other shows learn off Doctor Who, really.

[02:14]

Brilliant.

Thanks.

Brendan, what did your left nostril think of this episode?

For those of you at home who don't know, my 1st try recording a walk to work with Whittaker this week.

I used the macro lens on my camera and basically recorded my nose and extreme close-up talking about this episode.

Is that a sort of red dwarf?

But look, I have to agree with Todd and Stephen, I thought this was a fantastic episode.

I did say in my YouTube review that, I wondered about sort of underusing Mary Shelley a bit, but I, I've kept thinking about that, and I think actually she was used very well in that, every action she takes in the plot is intelligent and brave and she, you know, and she's a big part of the resolution of the story as well.

[03:16]

Um, yeah, I thought it was really balanced, the companions all got stuff to do.

Wonderful scene with Ryan, which I may go further into later at the piano.

But yeah, overall, another strong episode in a really strong run of Doctor Who, that we've had since Nicola Tesla's Night of Terror.

Or Orphan 55 if you're Pete Lambert.

James, what are you, Pete?

No, no, I loved it.

For the 1st time...

Well, in a couple of episodes.

No, I really, I really enjoyed the, the dark sort of Gothic horror kind of element, something that is traditionally a very Doctor Who staple that they haven't done that well for a long time, I think, I think is, is what impressed me about it.

I, uh, I also felt that Mary Shelley was a little underused. especially given that the story is basically implying that this is the inspiration for Frankenstein.

[04:31]

But when she was used, like, like Brendan said, like, really well done, thoughtful, um, great actress in this episode.

Um, Richard made her made a quite interesting observation.

He couldn't be here tonight.

He's working.

Poor bastard.

Um, But that um, Byron, Shelley, and Mary would make good doctors this year of the show.

I'm voting for John Polidori, actually.

Well, yes, of course you are.

Years and years, fan.

I want to say that I think that this is Jody's best episode.

For me, this ranks higher than Rosa, which I have political problems with.

Um, but uh, you know, racist.

Well, no, no, no.

It's too not racist.

No, I thought that this was incredibly enjoyable and I just thought it was like a masterclass in how to deal with, you know, 4 regulars and a bunch of really kind of well-drawn guest characters in 50 minutes.

[05:49]

It can be done. and I thought it was done really well here.

Plus atmosphere plus all sorts of other stuff.

It was good.

What reminded me of?

Well, tooth and claw.

In a good way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Good celebrity historical.

So it basically falls into 2 parts, so let's talk about the haunting and then let's talk about the lone cyberman.

How many lone cybermen, are there, James?

Just the one.

Just the lone cyberman.

So, um, Stephen, what did you think of the 1st half, the kind of just more straightforward horror bit?

Look, I really enjoyed this for a number of reasons.

There's so many callbacks too, a lot of the classic Doctor Who stories that I enjoy, whether that's the image of the Fendal or Castra Valver, it also reminded me of horror of Fang Rock in the way that it was very much a chamber piece and an atmospheric one as well.

So, um, all of that was just tick, tick, tick.

And I think it's probably a stronger aspect of the story than the sort of the lone cyberman part, which I guess we'll talk about later.

[06:54]

But this one was wonderful.

Like I kept thinking this has to have an amazing explanation in terms of the pop mechanics to justify what we're seeing here.

And it did.

I just couldn't fault it. absolutely wonderful.

What did you think, Todd?

Look, I completely agree with Stephen.

Like I was thinking, cast your vow of a horror fang rock as I was, as I was watching this, and I, and I just, I just laughed my head off the fact that Graham seems to have been haunted by 2 other ghosts than everybody else.

I just couldn't stop laughing and laughing about that, but which, whether or not we get any other explanations.

I don't care.

It was just hilarious, but also freaky.

Love that comedy moment.

Oh, didn't you didn't you see them?

You said there were no such thing as goes.

Unless there are.

Yeah, it was really good. at the end.

It leaves it open to not having an explanation and it can just be, you know, there are such things as, you know, how does that go?

[07:57]

There are more things in heaven and earth.

Yeah, in your philosophy.

Wrong writer. love that.

Do you know, Mary Shelley's 18 when this happens, I think, in 1816.

And the thing that I thought it sold really well is that everyone's so insanely young.

And that scene where they're dancing and doing the crucial, who is who and how is everyone related to everyone?

I loved that.

That was such a clever way to do that info dump.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. through gossip.

Yeah, yes.

Oh, and yeah, like the lightness of touch with the, like she calls herself, she calls herself Mary Shelley, but they're not married.

And basically, she's an unwed mother in, yeah, in a period when that's not okay.

Yeah, yeah.

No, well, I mean, both of them are, that's why everyone's in, in, uh, in, anyway.

[08:59]

Yeah, yeah.

They went away to avoid scandal, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think her father particularly approved of Percy, but her parents had written about, you know, this institution, a marriage thing.

Why is that such a big deal?

You know, they were quite forward thinking people and that's where Mary gets it from.

Yeah.

Yeah, that dance scene was wonderful.

The scene I was referring to earlier with Ryan is where he and Mary are at the piano and...

It's just, it's a subtle reference to his dyspraxia, but how the character relates to it differently.

The 1st time we ever see Ryan back in the woman who fell to earth, he's talking about how he can't do things because of his dyspractia, like he can't ride a bike.

Now, he attempts playing the piano and he knows that it's imperfect, but he just keeps trying and that's been the growth of his character.

And, and it's all done without him saying to Mary Shell, oh, yeah, I've got this thing where what I tell my body to do, it doesn't always do properly.

[10:03]

And instead, it's just expressed through the character's philosophy in this really nice character moment that then leads to that wonderful comedy bit of Polidori challenging him to a duel.

And again, the butler, Fletcher, who the, sorry, the valet Fletcher, I should say, who has already been pointed out, amazing piece of performance, just rolls his eyes on, oh, no, not again.

Especially seeing as Polidori's narcoleptic.

So does he fall asleep during duels?

I suppose so.

Isn't that how he died?

The other thing too, I thought the atmosphere was really interesting because you're used to these sort of these, you know, I mean, it's the same year that Emma, Jane Austen, publishes Emma.

So, you know, those sort of Austin adaptations where everything is sort of very flat and evenly lit.

And here everything seemed to be being lit by sort of practical, you know, candles and things.

I mean, I'm sure it wasn't, but just that darkness at night, which would have been what everyone what everyone was experiencing, just sold the atmosphere so well.

[11:15]

Yeah.

So something about that atmosphere that I noted that took me a while to get used to because we're so unused to this, even in Doctor Who, you know, we've talked on flight through entirety before how historicals are like theme park historicals, they're quite neat, they're quite clean, you know what I mean?

But here, there's all this.

It seems like smoke in the air and hey, probably from all the candles and oil lamps they're burning and that kind of thing.

And it kind of gives the picture a dreamlike quality, whereas last week, the ship in, Can you hear me?

Very crisp and all those purple neons and what have you.

And it, in a way, it took me a little while to get into the story because of that.

But once I was in there, I'm like, 0 no, this has drawn me into this setting.

It just took me a while.

Does Do any of the sort of guest characters sort of particularly strike you, Stephen?

I mean, all of them are wonderful and wonderfully played.

[12:15]

I mean, there's such a giant of literature.

So, of course, you know, being a literature student once upon a time, just sort of having that on the screen and in a Doctor Who, again, just wonderful.

I thought Byron in particular was amazing and Shelley too.

I think all of them, really.

Yeah.

What about you, Todd?

Was there anyone you liked particularly?

Um, who was the guy that hid behind Shelley?

Who was that?

That's Lord Byron.

Lord Byron hid behind Claire Claremont.

Oh sorry.

Yeah, it's my jet lag.

Yes, of course.

I thought he was great in being such a cad and, and, and that gave opportunity for, for all the ladies and of course, the doctor to put him in his place.

In fact, that rule, the don't snog Lord Byron rule that the doctor has established at the beginning.

And like Yaz thinks that she might actually do it.

And I actually quite like the fact that we're slightly sexualising the doctor, this female doctor for the 1st time in a way that they've sort of avoided a little bit.

[13:25]

And she's having none of it.

Yeah, it's wonderful.

Can you get that wonderful bit at the end where, you know, he tries his shtick with, um, with Claremont.

Claremont.

They clear a terrible name.

Didn't you get that fantastic bit at the end where he tries to pick up Claire Clermont again.

And she's like, no, you used me as a human shield.

You can go me myself.

Well, you see, that's my my sort of standout.

Of course, Lily Miller does an amazing job as Mary Shelley, but my standup because of that scene is Nadia Parks is Claire Claremont.

Now, when we were talking about series three, I think we all at one point or another said this Martha subplot of being in love with the doctor has gone on too long and it just goes to show you can do Martha's entire subplot in 50 minutes because Claremont gets it.

Oh, you're wonderful.

Oh, you're brilliant.

Oh, you're a bit rubbish, actually.

[14:26]

And I'm worth 10 of you.

Awesome.

So let's move on to the chief villain of the piece, the lone cyberman.

How do we feel about this half of the episode?

I might ask you again, Stephen.

Look, I think it's very strong, but it just maybe doesn't quite sort of stack up to the promise of the 1st half, and it's very much, I think, 25 minutes in, we get into that 2nd half, and the lone side sort of materialises in the hallway in the house there.

I don't know, perhaps the way in which it's establishes a bit of a runaround, and I'm not sure if that sort of appealed to me.

There was that wonderful exchange, though, between Shelley and, I guess, the Frankenstein monster, if you like, the cyber, the lone cyberman towards the end, which I thought was really effective, and kind of sowed the seeds of where the Frankenstein idea comes from.

That was quite lovely.

But obviously it's kind of like a utopia kind of episode where we're setting up for the next 2 parts in the season finale and I thought this was equally as enjoyable.

[15:31]

How did you feel about the lone sideman, Todd?

I didn't have a problem with it.

I couldn't work out whether or not I'd been spoiled to know that that's what it was, and certainly that shot when they look out the window down to the lake and and all of that lightning and all that stuff's happening, which I thought was a beautiful shot.

It reminded me a bit of Mordred Undead when they look back up the grass to where, you know, the obelisk thing is.

No, I didn't have a problem with that at all.

I thought it was great.

And that confrontation scene between her and the monster was brilliant.

And no, I, I, it needed to, something needed a kicking to change gears, I think, halfway through to sort of start sowing the seeds of why all this is happening.

And I had no problem with that at all.

I just, I thought it was tremendously well used and, and I just thought it was very telling that this, that, to this episode that it wasn't a one that was written by X-riter and Chris Chipnall.

[16:33]

It was the writer doing all this at, you know, putting all this plot stuff in and succeeding without having to go to a committee.

So I was just really impressed.

I wonder whether we would be, uh, whether we would have been quite so impressed by the haunted house thing had it kind of outstayed its welcome a bit.

Like, I think giving us that much, leaving us wanting a bit more and then changing tack halfway through is probably the right decision.

But what about the, you know, is he a shard?

A shard?

A shard himself?

What did you think, Brendan?

Um, look, an excellent idea.

As I've often said, Cybermen are my favourite Doctor Who monsters, and when, you know, I sort of heard a while ago that Cybermen might be back, world enough in time, their last story is my favourite Cybermen story, and it's kind of like, 0 my god, how are they going to stack up?

[17:33]

And, It's amazing that the Chibnol era looks at Cybermen and goes, okay, what's the Cybermen's defining feature?

They have no emotions.

Well, yet, chuck that out the window.

And let's not only have a sidemen with emotions, This side man is psychotic and tells us he was psychotic before he became a cyberman.

And what I, what I love about that scene with Mary Shelley is, it's kind of an inversion of the conversation that happens between Frankenstein and the monster where Dr. Frankenstein himself is cruel and callous to the monster and rejects him and the monster by instinct is actually a compassionate and caring creature who only becomes bitter and violent, through having bitterness and violence thrust upon him.

So I was kind of left with the impression, 0 my god, when Mary comes to write this story, she writes the monster as she wishes the monster she met had been.

So this cyberman is both Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and his monster in one. spooky And just the design.

[18:40]

I just want to call out Ray Holman, who is the costume designer.

He is on Twitter and he is just a lovely enthusiastic guy on there.

Looks amazing.

We've got a 10th planet arm.

We've got nightmare and silver body.

We've got a new helmet and all this stuff.

Yeah, just really effectively done.

I think too, now we're, you know, so many seasons in after the introduction of the Cyberman, and you had Moffat kind of retconning them as a thing that happens to kind of humanity eventually over and over again.

The idea that the sidemen are this sort of motley collection of things that are designed in all sorts of different ways and are even kind of conceived in different ways.

I think is really good.

And I loved the doctor's explanation of who they were.

I thought that that was so well done.

Her anger at the thought that they might hurt her friends.

Yeah, yeah, what happened to Bill.

And that's our kind of first, you know, it's sort of our 1st reference to... in a way.

[19:45]

Yeah.

At least his emotional impact on the character.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, let's do just a sort of quick roundup of how we thought the doctor went this week, because I think there are things to say about that.

What do you think, Brendan?

Um, quite possibly Jody's fiercest performance to date.

I say fiercest because, you know, there have been other stories where she's been quite strong, but the strength has come from sort of confusion or being on the back foot.

Whereas here she's proactive throughout, and my god, that the look on her face when Ryan basically says, yeah, kill Byron for all the people in the future.

And there's this look which I interpreted as the doctor said, thinking, 0 my god, is that what I've taught you three?

I actually have to say that I think that that was slightly muddled that whole kind of trolly problem thing.

Like, I'm not quite sure.

[20:46]

I think that was one of the weaknesses of the episode.

Well, you've been spoiled by the good place.

Well, maybe.

But I do think that her performance in it was just incredible.

And in an episode where she gets to be funny and silly and witty and all of those things.

I mean, this is how I want her to be all the time.

And this is what she always is at her best.

I think that this is, you know, as far as performance goes, this is the best material she's had and she's really, really risen to it.

And I would agree.

Yeah.

Did you have anything more to add to that though, Todd?

No, I don't think so.

I think this is her best performance and all of those things help her, help her shine and I just loved the fact that she had something to get her teeth into and she managed to, she was given the opportunity to be funny and to be pissed off and to be, um, and to have agency and and to be very unimpressed with with people and and she delivered.

[21:47]

Yeah, just wonderful.

Stephen, we haven't heard from you.

I also thought this was Jody's best performance for a long time, but I still feel like the Rosa episode is where we saw, I think what I guess I wanted to see from Jody's doctor.

And right from the beginning, what is it, the second, the 3rd episode of her run.

It's almost disappointing that we've had to wait this long again to get a performance of that kind of stature and think.

And it's not so much Jodi.

I think it's the material.

And in this instance, where she's just given gold.

It comes through wonderfully.

I don't know if I fully accept the flat structure mountain sort of piece, but the rest of it's wonderful.

And as you say, in the 1st half in particular, when she's all funny and silly, that's the doctor.

That's the doctor right there and we got we got it.

Yeah.

Well, I think we could wind it up there unless anyone has a closing statement.

[22:47]

I just have to say that toast and coal is that gorgeous in real life.

We saw the photo.

He was great this week.

And he's very funny too.

Like, he's got a natural humour, like, you know, in his interviews and stuff over the weekend.

You can see why he was cast in that role.

Yeah, they're really starting to use him properly for that too.

He's really very good.

All right.

Well, we might wind that up.

We're going to be back next week, obviously, at this time for the 1st in a two-part Chris Chibnell penned finale, which we're not going to spoil the title of because I can't remember it right now.

Oh, it's terrible.

I just remembered.

Never mind.

Tension of Cyberman.

That's it Elevation of the bandrels.

Superannuation of the side of man.

So we might finish up there.

Todd, thank you so much for joining us on, you know, it must be 4 o'clock in the morning or something by your local circadian clock, is that right?

[23:53]

have no idea.

How are you feeling?

am I?

I'm okay now, but you know, a few hours ago I was really struggling.

So this is both...

I can, I've managed to string 2 sentences together, so there you go.

Well done, you've done well.

And Stephen, thank you very much for joining us.

So I had no idea that you were going to do that until you actually called in.

So I'm very happy to speak to you.

Thank you, Mr. managed.

Brilliant.

Special guest star, Stephen B. Yeah.

So until next time, may you find a nice hat with a plume somewhere, one that really suits you.

Love a good plume.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

Good night.

See you soon.

Be seeing you.