WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:06:33 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.440 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody into Terror, the 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:08.220 only Doctor Who flash cast that can definitively tell you what it 3 00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:10.560 is that actually takes you away. 4 00:00:10.619 --> 00:00:11.939 What is it, Todd? 5 00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:16.019 Oh, good grief, you've asked that question. 6 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:20.160 Well, am I going to get taken away by answer? 7 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:21.719 shot. 8 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:26.280 Well, while Todd tries and works out the answer to that question. 9 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:31.019 I want to introduce you all to Colin, Colin Neal, who is longtime 10 00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:33.479 friend of the podcast appearing on it for the 1st time. 11 00:00:33.539 --> 00:00:34.320 How are you, Colin? 12 00:00:34.380 --> 00:00:34.979 I'm great. 13 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:35.579 Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.619 Oh, no, it's been great having you. 15 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:42.119 It's this is a very exciting new era in flight through entirety 16 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:43.380 and Jody into Tara. 17 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:49.079 Um, uh, can I start by asking you what you thought of uh, of the 18 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:49.320 episode? 19 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:52.920 I thought it was okay to quite good. 20 00:00:52.979 --> 00:00:57.420 I think I'm probably not as enthusiastic about it as the Twitter 21 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:02.340 verse at the moment, but I've watched it twice now and at the time 22 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:06.540 the thing that really struck me was Solaris. 23 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:12.540 It was trying to be Solaris, the Stanislav's Lem, uh, Tarkovsky 24 00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:16.920 film with a George Clooney, uh, and the original Russian one where 25 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:21.599 a planet would bring people back from the dead. to kind of make 26 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:22.140 friends with them. 27 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:29.280 And that sort of stuck out in my mind as, so I couldn't quite get 28 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.280 over that because they were like, they were clearly doing that. 29 00:01:32.340 --> 00:01:36.299 And also the mirror was very John Carpenter, Prince of Darkness. 30 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:36.900 I thought that would. 31 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.040 So I was a little bit thrown by some of the sort of homages they 32 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.959 were doing or ideas that they were taking. 33 00:01:43.019 --> 00:01:47.879 But, you know, I thought it was good that the main the main issues 34 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.420 I have really is that they just didn't stop talking. 35 00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:55.319 Like the doctor and it was just flat out. 36 00:01:55.379 --> 00:01:59.340 It's like it could have been more suspenseful if they hadn't gone 37 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:01.200 oh, let me tell you about the soil here and it went my way out. 38 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:04.079 It's just like, no, just slow it down, give it some pace. 39 00:02:04.140 --> 00:02:08.400 I don't care what the sheep are going to do in 2189. kind of do. 40 00:02:08.460 --> 00:02:09.120 I thought you would. 41 00:02:09.180 --> 00:02:10.379 I knew you would. 42 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:11.400 I kind of enjoyed that. 43 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:16.020 But and also, yeah, no, I totally agree with you on the stop 44 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:18.120 talking, just do it. 45 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:18.960 Yeah, exactly. 46 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:20.520 You put another 8 minutes. 47 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:25.680 So, actually, do, don't, don't, sure don't tell. 48 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.159 Yeah. 49 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.860 No, it's um, it's good. 50 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.620 But it wasn't, it didn't blow me away. 51 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.159 I kind of felt, we knew Grace was going to come back somehow 52 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:40.199 because we'd seen her in episode, you know, 3 or... 53 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:41.340 Yeah, one of those. 54 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:43.800 And they would do it in a good way. 55 00:02:43.860 --> 00:02:49.860 And it, it, the episode to me had a couple of really good themes 56 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:50.340 about it. 57 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:55.199 One was the way we treat people, we love to protect them. the way 58 00:02:55.199 --> 00:03:01.560 Eric was treating Hannah by protecting her, putting the speakers 59 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.939 around the house, but then being very selfish in a sense and going 60 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:06.240 off. 61 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:08.699 And that's very much what Salaris is about. 62 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:11.639 So it kind of did that for me. 63 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:15.240 And also, um, moving on as well. 64 00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:18.900 I think they kind of reached this point, which we knew was going 65 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:21.360 to happen where Ryan would accept him as grandad. 66 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:25.080 He would finish his cheese and pickle sandwich and then go, you 67 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.659 know, talk to Grace and now I can move on. 68 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:33.180 But, you know, the, the, it just felt, again, with this whole 69 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:37.139 season, I'm feeling, it's good, but it's not awesome. 70 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:40.080 And, um, don't get me started on the frog. 71 00:03:40.139 --> 00:03:41.699 No, no, no. 72 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:43.199 We will get together, you should get to the frog. 73 00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:44.580 I know you want to talk about the frog. 74 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:45.719 Brendan, frog. 75 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:47.819 Frog, love it. 76 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:53.580 Friend of the podcast, Alex Gibbs, a message me earlier to say, is 77 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:57.960 this the greatest fan divide since Guns and Fox in the 80s? 78 00:03:58.020 --> 00:03:59.639 Frog or the frog? 79 00:03:59.699 --> 00:04:03.960 And well, yeah, but I think we should just rename it Guns and Frog 80 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:04.620 to be honest. 81 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:10.979 But yeah, I certainly see what Colin's saying about the plot 82 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:12.180 borrowing from other areas. 83 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.500 Those 2 hadn't occurred to me. 84 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:15.840 The things that occurred to me as I was watching it were it. 85 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:18.420 Um Stranger Things. 86 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:22.019 Contact. 87 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.259 Yep, rainbow connection, obviously. 88 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:32.040 But also, and you know, because this is my shtick, the Nintendo 89 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:36.540 Game Boy Game links Awakening, which is part of the Zelda series 90 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:40.379 in which this island you're on, you're working to discover what 91 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:43.019 the mystery of the island is and you discover it is a dream within 92 00:04:43.019 --> 00:04:44.699 a creature about to be born. 93 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:48.839 And by saving the creature, everyone on the island ceases to 94 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:49.079 exist. 95 00:04:49.139 --> 00:04:52.620 And it's the 1st video game that ever made me cry. 96 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:58.379 And, um, I, I actually had a bit of a, um, a sob at the end of 97 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:03.180 this episode when, when Ryan says grandad, and it was a scene that 98 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:09.300 could have so easily been overplayed and overwrought with emotion 99 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:12.720 but instead it's, it's very quiet, which is true to both those 100 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:18.779 characters, um, and, you know, it immediately is followed by a 101 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:19.079 joke. 102 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:24.120 We're not, we're not being mawkish about this and it, I was having 103 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:24.899 a conversation. 104 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:31.259 I think possibly with um, with you, Colin, on, on Sunday about, you 105 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:36.360 know, with, with Clara's grief in season 9, it overtakes the whole 106 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:36.959 series. 107 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:42.540 But Graham and Ryan's grief here, it is dealt with, and it is 108 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:45.720 referred to, but they're also off exploring the universe, and I 109 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.240 think it's been handled in a much better way here. 110 00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:52.319 Um, I did not expect Grace. 111 00:05:52.860 --> 00:05:54.720 No, I didn't either. 112 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:58.379 I thought I'd assumed that Gibma was lying about her being a 113 00:05:58.379 --> 00:05:59.339 recurring character. 114 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.100 And then when she appeared in arachnets, I thought, oh, well 115 00:06:02.100 --> 00:06:02.579 that's it. 116 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:03.360 So I was surprised. 117 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:08.040 Yeah, um, if I could bring up the one thing I didn't like because 118 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.560 yesterday I gave this a 10 out of 10, but then I thought about 119 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:10.800 it. 120 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:15.540 Um, the anti-zone adds nothing to the plot except Jeopardy. 121 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:16.560 Yeah. 122 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.980 You know, um, it's so much so that I discovered today, there's 123 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:23.160 another alien creature in the anti-zone, and his scenes were 124 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.000 entirely cut for time, and it makes no difference to the plot, was 125 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:27.480 there? 126 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:30.360 Yeah, it was the magma creature. 127 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:31.980 There were some shriven zars in there. 128 00:06:32.819 --> 00:06:34.980 Todd, what made you cry? 129 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:41.459 I cried at the end with Graham and Ryan and it was really 130 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:47.160 emotional and it was a great payoff from this season and the whole 131 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:48.120 thing just intrigued me. 132 00:06:48.180 --> 00:06:51.420 It was like Pete's episode a few weeks ago, I just kept wanting to 133 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:55.019 know what, where it was going and where, and how it was going to 134 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:57.180 be resolved, and surprise listeners. 135 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:58.680 I didn't hate the frog. 136 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.220 Actually, it was cheesy enough for me to actually just sit there 137 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:03.540 and go, okay, I'm going to pay that one. 138 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.040 Um, and, um, you know, I could, I could have done without the 139 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.620 doctor eating the soiled crap at the beginning. 140 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:11.279 I hate that stuff. 141 00:07:11.339 --> 00:07:12.300 It just doesn't work. 142 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:16.319 But she was good throughout, and I thought that the young girl 143 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.779 playing Hannah, the actual blind actress, was terrific. 144 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:22.920 It reminded me a bit of like the anti-zone just reminded me of a 145 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.220 bit of Planet of Evil, like being on the edge of matter and anti 146 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:26.220 matter. 147 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.100 And I just kind of thought, oh, is this a concept, like a Bob 148 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:33.540 Baker and Dave Martin, that actually kind of... 149 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:34.980 One extra idea we don't need. 150 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:37.740 Which they cut, obviously. 151 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.759 And then and the moths freak me out because I hate moths and so I 152 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:42.899 was just like, oh. 153 00:07:42.899 --> 00:07:47.220 My favourite bit, they eat Kevin Eldon and it's not very gory. 154 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:51.000 And then one of them comes out of his eye socket and you kind of 155 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.379 think, oh, whoa. 156 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:57.899 Yeah, it's the 4th episode in a row that I've really that I've 157 00:07:57.899 --> 00:08:01.560 enjoyed and telling him enough, it's the 4th episode not written 158 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:02.459 by Chris Chipnall. 159 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:03.300 That's all I can say. 160 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.980 Yes, yes, I agree with you there, Todd. 161 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:12.360 Um, so, uh, which one are you? 162 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:12.899 James. 163 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:14.339 Apparently Brandon. 164 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:15.779 Do you have an opinion? 165 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.899 No, King Jones. 166 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:19.920 King James. 167 00:08:20.819 --> 00:08:22.740 Not King James. 168 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:26.100 Not non-union, Brendan, equivalent. 169 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:27.240 What do you think? 170 00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:32.340 I really enjoyed it. 171 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.740 Um, I... 172 00:08:34.740 --> 00:08:37.620 I totally agree. 173 00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:45.419 Um, with the points that you made Todd about, um, the get on with 174 00:08:45.419 --> 00:08:45.600 it. 175 00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:47.820 I think, you know, I remember I said that once in this podcast 176 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:48.360 already. 177 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:55.500 There's a lot of speechifying in this season and it is kind of 178 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:59.879 it's, it's, that's one of the only problems I really have 179 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:05.820 structurally with the show at the moment. is like, it's, it's an 180 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.179 extra, what, like 20% longer than it used to be. 181 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:15.240 It should have the space to tell, you know, a more fleshed out 182 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:15.600 story. 183 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:20.879 I think keep getting... 184 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.220 It's only 5 minutes longer, but it feels longer. 185 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:24.179 Yeah, it does. 186 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.659 Yeah. 187 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.000 Yeah, I mean, I mean, yes, I guess so. 188 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:32.340 But it just I find that I just find that's being frustrating me a 189 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:32.460 little. 190 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:36.120 I think, you know, the solar track was such an important idea. 191 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:40.379 And it was just entirely outlined for us in one big ass speech 192 00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:41.159 from Jody. 193 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:43.860 And it stepped out to make the tea. 194 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:47.039 Well, but I mean, you know that, and, you know, the fact that 195 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:51.419 she's its friend, like thematically that works tremendously well 196 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:53.879 but it was all just told to us. you know we didn't see it. 197 00:09:53.940 --> 00:09:57.539 Yeah, it should have been introduced earlier and more and more 198 00:09:57.539 --> 00:09:59.159 organically into the plot. 199 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:01.679 And then off... 200 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.639 Because it's not helping Jody because she's just Basil 201 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:06.240 exposition. 202 00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:08.879 Yeah, I was going to say, do you think there's a problem with the 203 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:12.419 way they're writing for Jody in the sense that they've overindexed 204 00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:14.460 on making her super doctorate. 205 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.419 And actually, it's reducing the ability for her to have range 206 00:10:18.419 --> 00:10:21.240 because she's just kind of going, you know, like this and this 207 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:22.379 listen, and I don't talk talk, talk. 208 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:23.580 Let me do this with my screwdriver. 209 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:25.259 And it's too much. 210 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:26.220 She can do better. 211 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.220 Reminds me of Matt Smith in his 1st season. 212 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:35.580 But Matt has a kind of like a way that Pete has of taking boring 213 00:10:35.580 --> 00:10:38.580 lines and doing something really interesting with them. 214 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:42.419 And like, I don't think Jody's quite found that yet. 215 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:44.700 I think she's super charismatic and I like her a lot. 216 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:48.720 But I'd like to see her given more to do emotionally. 217 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:49.080 I think. 218 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 219 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.759 See, I'm going to disagree because I really enjoyed the exposition 220 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:57.480 scene last night. 221 00:10:57.539 --> 00:11:00.299 You know, I was aware that I was watching an exposition scene. 222 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.539 But I thought, I thought after the episode, okay, we really, with 223 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:07.440 this kind of concept, we have 2 choices, we have Jody telling us 224 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.879 all the frog telling us. 225 00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:11.039 So I think I prefer Jodie. 226 00:11:11.100 --> 00:11:14.340 But the other thing, I'm not telling us, you know, like, that's 227 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:14.759 the other thing. 228 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:19.259 I had enough of not being told what things are over the last 6 229 00:11:19.259 --> 00:11:19.500 years. 230 00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:20.940 Yeah, yeah, I know. 231 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.899 I would rather have it laid out for me, but I think what Jody does 232 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:28.860 bring to those features is the Elizabeth Slayton quality of 2 233 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:29.820 emotions at once. 234 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:33.000 Like when she says to Yaz, I'm really, really scared. 235 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.799 I can believe she is really, really scared and bloody excited 236 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:39.779 really, really scared. 237 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:40.620 You know. 238 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:41.460 Can you? 239 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.519 I don't. 240 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:45.240 No, not at all. 241 00:11:45.299 --> 00:11:46.440 Oh okay. 242 00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:49.980 I would like, I mean, I thought that there was some good writing 243 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:52.860 in this where there was a subtext for a change. 244 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.539 And the one scene that I really liked was the frog thing, you know 245 00:11:57.539 --> 00:12:03.059 where Graham and Ryan had both bought Grace a Frog, one Christmas 246 00:12:03.059 --> 00:12:04.080 because... 247 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.159 You would have a frog necklace. 248 00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:07.500 Well, they don't, but it's because they don't talk to it. 249 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:09.539 Yeah, no, I think that's cute. 250 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.320 No, no. 251 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:12.480 You know, because they don't talk to one another. 252 00:12:12.539 --> 00:12:13.559 They don't have a relationship. 253 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:15.840 And this is the episode where he finally calls. 254 00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:17.519 Her grandad. 255 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:20.820 And that tells us that, and it's sort of a character thing, but 256 00:12:20.820 --> 00:12:24.480 it's not, and you had a bad relationship back then, you know, or 257 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.019 whatever. 258 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:25.799 Yeah. 259 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:28.740 No, no, it's it's a good it's a good way of building up to that 260 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:32.399 final moment of him calling a Graham grandad. 261 00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:32.940 Yeah. 262 00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:36.059 And you could see it coming a mile often, we've been signposting 263 00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:36.779 this from episode one. 264 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:37.919 Next week, fist pump. 265 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:41.940 I said that at the beginning. 266 00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:43.139 We got the grandad. 267 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.539 I don't know whether we're going to get fist pump now after this 268 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:46.379 week, but who knows? 269 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:53.759 Do you think that the 7 grandmothers or of the doctor mentions is 270 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.539 a call back to the 7 original doctors in the original run? 271 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.000 Thus, her favourite is number five. 272 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:01.080 Anyway, I'm just saying it. 273 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:02.460 Maybe. 274 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:03.600 No, that's a good point. 275 00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:04.320 That's a good point. 276 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.120 Yeah, they were all just Sylvester McCoy and John Pertie in drag 277 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.799 bringing little Jody Waker up. 278 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:13.980 Well, the other line was... 279 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:16.379 Doctor, what about reversing the polarity? 280 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.559 Yeah. my language. 281 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:25.559 Yeah, I loved that because it's it's a meta- it's a meta joke 282 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:27.720 because, you know, it that's a Doctor Who thing. 283 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:32.940 But in terms of the series, in Doctor Who, we know that Star Trek 284 00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:37.139 is a TV show, Star Trek used reverse the polarity in a few 285 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:40.080 episodes as an homage to Doctor Who, and that's where Yaz has 286 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.500 picked it up. 287 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.840 It's just wonderfully vertical thing. 288 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.860 And it also got, yes, to actually have a moment because the other 289 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:48.179 2 had so many moments. 290 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:51.960 Oh, can I just tell you the other moment that I thought was 291 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:52.259 great? 292 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:58.440 You know, the thing that the doctor draws on the wall about Eric 293 00:13:58.440 --> 00:13:58.919 the message. 294 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:03.720 And then Eric comes back and he sees it and they don't say 295 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:04.259 anything. 296 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.440 And so we're left. 297 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:12.960 We're allowed a space to think about what might be going on rather 298 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.159 than just being told. 299 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:18.600 And I loved that because there is that thing where both Eric and 300 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:23.879 Graham risk someone who's still alive in order to be with a 301 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:26.279 fantasy version of the person that you've lost. 302 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:31.080 And like it has, and even the doctor does that and has to make the 303 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.559 decision to go back to her friends rather than her sort of strange 304 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.120 fantasy friend at the end. 305 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:38.039 And I'm not sure that was sort of fully sold. 306 00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:41.039 But like it had a unity to it. 307 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:47.340 It had something to say in a way that the Saranga conundrum... 308 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.919 Or so many of the other previous... 309 00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:50.639 Get me stuck. 310 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:56.399 Yeah, but it did have a little cartoon character, which it had in 311 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:57.000 common with that. 312 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.240 Yeah, yeah, me too. frogs in the background. 313 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:06.960 Are they raining down? 314 00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:12.360 Rod and I did both say at the end of this one though. 315 00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:15.539 It's like, yes, frogs, wonderful, you know, quirky, interesting. 316 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.480 But I said, why couldn't it be Susan? 317 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:20.340 And he said, why couldn't it be Rose? 318 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:25.860 You know, why couldn't it be someone significant to the doctor? 319 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.019 Like the frog thing is well explained. 320 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.340 It was someone... 321 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:31.259 But don't you think? 322 00:15:31.259 --> 00:15:34.080 But is Solar Tract really liked Grace. 323 00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:37.500 So it gave her Grace's voice and it took the form of something 324 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:38.759 that Grace loved. 325 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.200 Yeah. 326 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.100 You know, that's more genuine to the character than faking someone 327 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:45.539 else, he kind of... 328 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:45.899 Yeah. 329 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:50.399 I like the fact I like the fact that it wasn't a former companion 330 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:51.779 or something like that at first. 331 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.840 At 1st I thought, oh, no, I want to say like river or something 332 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.559 like that just to give us a bit of, you know, fan whatever. 333 00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:01.440 But then when I thought about it, I thought, no, it was the right 334 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:01.799 decision. 335 00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:03.720 Yeah, green puppet from... 336 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:05.100 It's never the wrong decision. 337 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:09.000 I, I, I take, I take your, I take your point. 338 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:10.799 It was no longer trying to trick her. 339 00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.480 Yeah, yeah. 340 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.480 No, I thought that was that was super great. 341 00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:18.360 But again, I just thought her being friends with the frog came out 342 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.159 of the out of thin air a little bit. 343 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.500 Because she's like the frog. 344 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.299 It is that theme though, isn't it? 345 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.940 It's friendship, it's cooperation. 346 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.940 It's nonviolence that's that's massive in this season. 347 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:30.600 Yeah. 348 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.700 And I just hope it is subverted in the future. 349 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:34.200 I hope they twist some of that. 350 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.200 Such that you do get the emotional range with Jody when she does 351 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.000 have to do something that she doesn't want to do. 352 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:39.600 Yeah. 353 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:44.879 When there are proper monsters. decision not to be violent not to 354 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.559 take decisive action actually comes back and... 355 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:50.220 Yeah. 356 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:52.379 Like damages people. 357 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:53.399 I wanted the Optra. 358 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:55.919 Was it the menoptera in the in the moths? 359 00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:57.240 The Venom Bros? 360 00:16:57.299 --> 00:16:57.779 Yeah. 361 00:16:57.779 --> 00:16:59.340 Venom, come on. 362 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.080 What are the what are the month for things? 363 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:01.740 What are they? 364 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.500 Yeah, flesh mops. 365 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.599 Yeah, why can there have been baby Minopra? 366 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.359 I thought they were really good. 367 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:10.559 I like them a lot. 368 00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:12.539 And did they have 8 legs or did I dream that? 369 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.000 No, the rats had 6 legs, though. 370 00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:16.619 The rat has 66 eggs. 371 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:21.359 And plus Kevin Eldon in latex, which would be the episode title if 372 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.359 he's ribbons of the 7 stomachs. 373 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.599 I thought it was like a bad... 374 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:30.180 Oh, what's... 375 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:36.660 Oh, yeah, or the people from the Christmas invasion or... 376 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:37.920 Or Will freaking Wensus. 377 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:41.099 He's one of the pie people. who's really let himself go. 378 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.740 Or a bad, um, oh, it's on the tip of my tongue. 379 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.099 Reboss operation, that little guy that they talk to. 380 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.039 Oh, Binroe, Binroe. 381 00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:54.420 Yeah, a bad a bad bin row. 382 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.619 I mean, I like the idea that that, again, the space between these 383 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:03.240 2 dimensions is a ridiculous fantasy world, you know, with goblins 384 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.500 and things or trolls. 385 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.700 And we're in Norway, you know, like, which is where those things 386 00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:09.240 come from. 387 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:12.359 Like I thought at least the imagery was sort of consistent with 388 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:12.960 where we were. 389 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:17.819 Quick shout out to how brilliant the show continues to look. 390 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.380 Yes, it does. 391 00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:22.500 And Saguna canola again. 392 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.220 I think it was a bit, the score, the score was okay this week. 393 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.579 It wasn't as standout as before, but he's very good at, again 394 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:32.279 having this range of going purely electronic and in the background 395 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:35.819 to something that's really in your face, like the Rosa score. 396 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.119 This I didn't really notice the score so much and it wasn't 397 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.000 offensive, but got that title sequence. 398 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:43.740 It's coming the 1st thing you see. 399 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.619 It's like, I want to watch every 2nd of the title scene. 400 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.200 I love it so much because the music is spot on. 401 00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:54.539 I have to sort of make sure I'm sitting in front of the TV. not 402 00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:58.440 eating dinner when that title sequence starts because you don't 403 00:18:58.440 --> 00:18:59.160 want to miss any of it. 404 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:00.119 No. 405 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:00.599 Yeah. 406 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:06.359 And it's like, like, I think you said this about... 6 episodes ago 407 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:12.720 Nathan, that it's like a 3D reimagining of the original title 408 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.380 sequence. 409 00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:17.460 And I love the way in the closing titles is out of focus as well. 410 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.579 The same thing really, and it still feels 3D. Yeah, I know they've 411 00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:21.000 nailed that. 412 00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:25.319 It is, because there was this, some comments I think Stephen 413 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.720 Moffatt made that it needs to look like Netflix now. 414 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:30.420 And I think he meant that in a very positive way, but I think it 415 00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:30.660 does. 416 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.339 I think it hits that bar for sure. 417 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:36.900 Let's hope, you know, there's a little bit more complexity 418 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:40.259 surprises to really top off the end of the season. 419 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.759 Does anyone have any closing statement? 420 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.680 Um, if I, if I may, something we've, you know, mentioned a few 421 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:55.079 times, I watched, um, 9 weeks, is, um, you know, we're wondering 422 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.980 if this extra time in the episodes, this extra 5 minutes is being 423 00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:03.119 well used, and I'm just thinking back to season 22 where they go 424 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.480 to 45 minute episodes, but they have massive problems with the 425 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:06.900 structure. 426 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.839 And yeah, this is something Eric Saywood said, you know, we're 427 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.839 still treating episode one, like episode one, where it should be 428 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.319 ending where episode 2 ends, and Eric Saywood has said, if we'd 429 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.680 gone for another series of 45 minute episodes, we would have got 430 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.400 the structure right. 431 00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:25.740 And I think possibly that's what's happening here in that Cibnal 432 00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:29.819 wrote for Torchwood, which was 45 minute episodes, wrote for 433 00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:32.880 Doctor Who, which was 45 minute episodes, life on Mars, et 434 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:33.180 cetera. 435 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.539 So as much as, oh, we're going to have these longer things. 436 00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.859 Everything is, you know, you can't turn a cruise ship on a dime. 437 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.279 Everything is still kind destructured for 45 minutes and then you 438 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.420 come up with 5 minutes in between. 439 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.259 Um, and I think next year, hopefully the pacing will be sorted. 440 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.440 So you like to give him another crack of the whip to get it 441 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:53.039 completely correct. 442 00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:54.960 Yeah, I think so. 443 00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:59.339 I mean, he wrote 3 seasons of Broadchurch that are exactly this 444 00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:03.779 format, 10, 50 minute episodes, you know, and I think it's his 445 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:09.660 choice because he wants more time to explain everything to the 446 00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:10.380 viewers at home. 447 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.380 Todd, are you good? 448 00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:15.420 I'm all good. 449 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.700 I can't wait for next week. 450 00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:18.900 Yes. 451 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.339 One way or the other. 452 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:25.559 The episode is called, as I've said, the Battle of the Cat walked 453 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:26.519 across my keyboard. 454 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.460 All right. 455 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.200 Okay, in that case. 456 00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:34.140 We'll definitely be back for that next week. 457 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.960 I want to thank Colin for joining us tonight. 458 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:37.859 Thanks for having me. 459 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.440 Yeah, it's been terrific having you here on the sofa in your 460 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.160 pyjamas. 461 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:43.559 Thank you. 462 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:44.339 Thank you, Colin. 463 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:45.000 Thank you, darling. 464 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.400 We all are. 465 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:50.759 It's a little bit of a slumber party here tonight without, you 466 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:51.480 know, anyway. 467 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.960 And what else do I have to say? 468 00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:55.619 Oh, I know. 469 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:56.579 We have another podcast. 470 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:01.079 It's called Flight through Entirety, and we are on hiatus at the 471 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:04.619 moment, but we have some exciting things coming, including... 472 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:05.519 Well, one of those. 473 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.660 We have a couple of commentaries coming and we are very soon going 474 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:17.880 to be calling each other up and organising to meet and record our 475 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.559 episodes on series 2. 476 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:21.900 So look out for that in the new year. 477 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.680 You can catch us on Flight through Entirety.com, Flight through 478 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.619 Entirety on Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 479 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:32.519 And of course, we are Jody Interterterra. 480 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:34.559 So check us out here at Jody. 481 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.180 What's this podcast called, James? 482 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:38.579 Jodyintoterra.com? 483 00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:43.259 We're not calling it that. 484 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:48.240 At Jodie interterra on Twitter and at Jodie interterra on Apple 485 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.619 Podcasts, and we will see you next week for the exciting series 486 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:53.519 finale. 487 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.519 And I guess that's all. 488 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.319 Thank you very much for listening a good night. 489 00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.400 Do I say that on this one? 490 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:01.380 Yeah, just did. 491 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.279 Okay, all right. 492 00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:03.059 Good night. 493 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:03.779 Bye, everyone. 494 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:04.319 All right. 495 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:05.279 See you guys. 496 00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:06.180 Thank you for calling in.