WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:06:08

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody and Terra, the only

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gay Doctor Who flashcast that's actually less gay than the 2

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villains in this episode.

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We have all just watched the Witch Finders.

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And we all, except me, have very, very strong opinions. on it.

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And so I'm going to pick someone completely at random to give me

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their brief feelings, James, on what they thought of the episode.

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Brief feeling. something that King James wanted to do to Ryan.

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I don't think they were gonna be brief.

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Sorry.

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Anyway, that was a terrible joke.

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Look, I think I enjoy this more than you did, Nathan.

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I thought it was possible.

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It was, you know, plot wise, it did not much happen, but the

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acting was good.

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I quite enjoyed Alan coming. anyway.

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And I liked the fact that it was, it was, you know, obviously it's

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not historically accurate, but there was some real history in

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there, the fact that, you know, he was portrayed as gay and, you

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know, not everybody would necessarily know that unless they'd

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studied history.

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Yes, I think you'll have something to say about that in a moment.

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But I enjoyed it.

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Not as much as last week. or the political episodes, but generally

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I thought it was solid and...

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Okay.

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And worth watching?

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What did what did you think about it, Todd?

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Well, I know all about space.

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Praise Satan.

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Look, I just...

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I kept thinking every time he said that.

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I just really, really enjoyed it.

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I love the fact that Jody got to go up against the bitch from

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Downton Abbey and then she got into a bigger bitch and then Ryan

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was almost the bitch to the biggest bitch to them all.

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I couldn't believe what Alan Cumming was actually doing on

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screen.

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I thought at first.

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This is an interesting acting choice.

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And I just thought it was just, oh, I actually, I really enjoyed

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him.

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I thought he was much more soldied than he was chief caretaker and

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I just really, really enjoyed it.

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I love that the psychic paper didn't quite get the doctor, the

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autonomy that, you know, it sort of gives the doctor and that was

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a little twist with her having to be, you know, dealing with

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seeing a woman.

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Yeah, it still couldn't overcome King James's sexism, could it?

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It worked on Becca.

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And, you know, I like the fact that there was an alien threat and

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um, and I loved Yaz's face when, you know, obviously, you know

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Ryan was considering the king's offer and I just really, really

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enjoyed it.

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I probably enjoyed it even more than last week.

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So there you go.

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Fantastic.

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What about you, Brandon?

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Um, yeah, I'm with Todd.

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I really, really enjoyed this one.

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Um, I thought it was a great little historical romp in the

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tradition of uh, the visitation or Mark of the Rani with um, a

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star, star term, from Alan Cumming.

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Um, I also very much liked how his homosexuality was portrayed, and

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it made me go and look up his, um, his relationships, and...

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One of his very early relationships ended in great tragedy, and

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that isn't directly referred to him the episode, but, Yeah, reading

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about King James, you know, you discover.

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Yeah, he did lose a lot of people very close to him through

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treachery or through people trying to get to him through those

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people.

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So, Alan Cumming sort of plays the role farcically to begin with

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but there is this sort of very hurt person underneath.

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And my favourite bit of the episode.

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The doctor finally brews something up.

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I'm so happy.

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I'm so happy that she blew something up.

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And, you know, that she actually not only takes a stand at the

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beginning to stop granny from being dumped, even though that's not

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successful, but she tries to talk to the aliens and tries to find

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out what they want and only attacks them when it becomes

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absolutely clear that they intend to wipe out everyone.

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And she doesn't kill them though, does she?

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I mean, she just re-imprisons them.

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She just re-imprisons them.

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So she carries out the original sentence of whatever court has

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sent them here.

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Yeah, and I also thought Becca was very well played.

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Um, interesting note from friend of the podcast, um, Alex Gibbs.

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He messaged me earlier and said, Remember Alan Cumming from the

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Witchfinders, and it would be like removing Cato Mara and Anthony

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Ainley from Mark of the Rani.

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Discuss.

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I'd say he was half right.

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But yeah, overall, I thought it was a very strong episode.

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And I actually think this might be the new normal.

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As you were talking about with Saranga conundrum a few weeks ago

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Nathan, I actually think this kind of level is the new normal.

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No, I'm happy with that.

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I have to say that I thought it was a bit thin and a bit slow.

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But it was super lifted by the guest cast, who I think were really

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good.

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And look, I mean, this is one.

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I've seen this once.

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Normally I've tried to watch them twice before the recording the

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flashcast, but I just didn't get the chance this time.

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So I saw it in my huddled in my study on my iPad at, you know, at

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work at 6 o'clock in the morning.

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And so I may not have been in the sort of best temper for it, but

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I actually found coming a bit like bordering on offensive, just in

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the sense of kind of gay male representation in the show.

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Like people have talked about, you know, we've had 2 dead lesbians

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in the show so far this season.

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I don't think we've had a gay man in Doctor Who for quite some

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time and to have someone who is sort of so so predatory and so

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sort of stereotyped.

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And like, I'm a huge fan of the gay villain, you know, like I love

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Harrison Chase and stuff, but I just wish that that wasn't the

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only representation we were getting.

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See, that's not the way I read it.

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I read it as his flirting in a world where, you know, even though

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he's king.

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It's still quite dangerous for him too.

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And I really liked the way that, although Ryan, to all sort of

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indications we have had so far with the flirting with Yaz is

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possibly straight.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Like he doesn't have a defined sexuality as yet.

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And I'm fine with that.

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But it, I liked the fact that Ryan was just kind of a bit bemused

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and uncomfortable with the whole thing and didn't, you know, hit

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yeah, if that had happened 20 years ago, not in Doctor Who, because

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it wasn't on, but that had happened 20 years ago, that character

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would have had more of a problem with that.

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I like the fact that he just kind of went, oh, I'm not interested

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but it's kind of sweet that he's flirting with me.

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I mean, that was the point you made during the week too, Brendan, I

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think, in chat, was that there was no gay panic from Ryan about it

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at all.

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Yeah, and also for King James's part, when Ryan sort of doesn't

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respond to his advances, there's no threat or menace from King

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James.

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He's just like, oh, you know, I'll, I will keep letting you know

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I'm interested, but I think it's also very important that he still

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talks to Ryan almost as an equal, like, you know, they chat about

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their pasts and yeah, it's Ryan imploring him to get the doctor

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out of the water that changes his mind.

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I actually think that Ryan is really good this episode too.

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It's another episode where they've given all the regular something

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to do.

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Yeah.

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In fact, the doctor, I think this is the best episode for Jody so

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far.

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She gets a proper confrontation with a villain.

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And, you know, like before, you know, everyone writes in.

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I mean, I guess King James isn't really a villain and he's

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certainly on our side by the end, he's not, you know, it's a bit

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of a fake out, isn't it?

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And she gets to properly persuade him and empathise with him.

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She does some heroic sort of jumping in the water and, you know

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all of that.

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She's really, really sort of fun and doctor-ish and likeable.

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And all those, all those things about if, you know, having to

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prove herself because, um, you know, she's a woman.

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I liked the fact that they actually dressed the gender in this

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week's episode.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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If I'd been a bloke, I would have sort of, yeah.

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I would have liked them to have actually dressed up a bit, like, in

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some sort of historical drab rather than just walking in in

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regular clothes.

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I don't know.

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I just kind of felt that.

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Have they changed it all this season?

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They have changed clothes.

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Apart from Jody's top?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, they had they had changed clothes, but it's always been sort

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of modern clobber.

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And the thing is, they could have got away with being in the right

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period gear because they thought they were going to Elizabeth the

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1st coronation, which historically isn't that far off.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. forgot that.

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I know those aliens still trapped under that hill?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I thought that they were, I thought the aliens were really crappy

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can I just say?

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Like they were super perfunctory and I would have.

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They basically just serve the Gelt without, you know, saying, oh

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you know, we're really poor and we're really sad.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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They're not gas monsters.

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They look like shit.

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Well, I thought that they I thought that they looked like Tim Shaw

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before he started collecting teeth.

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Like they were like super, super unmemorable, I think. before the

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work.

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Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Give me a pteroleptic.

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Give me Michael Mealia in black sorrow before the reconstruction.

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Billy Piper in series 4.

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No offence.

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Sorry.

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No offence to you, James, but every time King James was on the

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screen, I did think of you.

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Who's the innuendo?

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Sorry, who's more cat?

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Yeah, I just kind of thought, well, we've got our own King James.

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I'll take that.

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Oh, James.

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As Anthony Ainley, in Time Incorporated.

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Well, yeah, all right.

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Anything else?

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I mean, the show continues to look incredible.

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There were one on 2 sort of weird drone shots from above on the

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forest, which I thought looked great.

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Sogunakanola is just amazingly good.

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How did you like the minx?

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I like the ending.

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I always like it when somebody sees the TARDIS, you know

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dematerialised.

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Yeah, that was a good classic ending.

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Look, I think her name was Joy Wilkinson, and she, uh, Paul

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Cornell retweeted some tweets of hers, where she was sort of

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triumphantly saying how delighted she was that her episode had got

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such a positive reaction, and she posted some pictures of some

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books um, that she had read to do research, and uh, she has some

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academic background.

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I think, but at least had written about King James.

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So it was all sort of from a period that she knew about.

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And she just seemed super delighted and super happy with the cast

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and all of that sort of thing.

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And I think that just made me terribly happy.

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But she seemed to have a real grasp on kind of Doctor Who law, you

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know, that scene where, you know, a guest star, escorts our

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regulars to the TARDIS, and they say goodbye, and the guests start

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watches the Tartar steam materialise.

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Time Warrior.

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Yeah, yeah, Time Warrior.

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I'm thinking, you know, terror of the Zygons.

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Like, it's a thing that happens over and over again.

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It is really lovely and comfortable.

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And she knew how the Sonic worked and she knew how the psychic

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paper worked and she really just seemed to know the show.

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And there's some nice quotes there, as though getting into the

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TARDIS from Tarantino and then the other one about that appears

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like magic or whatever that quote is, but everybody knows.

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The other C.

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Clark one.

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Yeah, and of course, King James, who's responsible for the

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authorised version of the Bible, which was used for 450 years in

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England and is still used in places today, obviously recognises

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that as being a quote from Ezekiel, where, of course, it was a

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quote from pulp fiction as far as Graham was concerned.

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I still think it should be compulsory for the doctor to utter a

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line of exasperated dialogue with the name Graham at the end of it

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in each episode.

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Are we still waiting for this episode?

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Stop harshing the vibe, Graham.

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I really like...

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What about the hat?

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I should like a hat like that.

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I really enjoyed the Houdini reference.

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She's a bit she's a bit pertly with all these.

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That was a very poetry reference.

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It is slightly dangerous, I think.

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And I think that they avoided the pitfalls here, but, you know, the

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previous two historicals worked well by keeping the science

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fiction stuff to a minimum.

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Here, you know, it was a little bit earlier in time and a little

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bit less politically important.

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So you could have stupid poo monsters without any sort of

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particular problem.

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But I do think having the doctor escape from the dunking thing

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that's killed 35 people, you know, does risk saying if only those

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women had been a little bit more clever and had done a little

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bit.

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But yeah, that's right, a bit more sort of core stability they

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could have escaped as well.

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Oh boy.

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I'm doing them now, darling.

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Is that your Kegels?

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That was quite dark that seeing the granny dunked, you know, like

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that was, and I think that they kind of cut around it a bit and

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made it a bit less horrifying than it was when it happened to the

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doctor.

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But, you know, yeah.

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But I do, the only thing I do like the fact that, and Brendan said

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that he went and researched King James.

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It made me want to do that.

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Like, they didn't know much about it about him.

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And so I like that when Doctor Who, you know, gives me a concept

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or something or a bit of historical thing where I have to go and

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then, you know, want to find out more about it.

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And I really liked that.

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I think King James did write a book about witches, someone at

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school informed me today.

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So it was a thing.

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It wasn't just, you know, a thing that was sort of grafted on.

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Do you know, for one weird 2nd when he was honouring the

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background with that mask on, I thought, ooh, Krasco.

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What if it's Krasco?

305
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.059
It wasn't Crasco.

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So those dogs were not my dogs furiously copulating in the

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backyard.

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They were actually the...

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Why do we have dogs?

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The witches familiars.

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So that's our time for the day.

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Gentlemen, does anyone have a closing statement?

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Great fun.

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Yep.

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Yeah, a who to laugh and one of the most over-top performances

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this century.

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So thank you, Alan.

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Okay, that's fantastic.

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Yes.

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00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:06.059
Okay.

321
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.879
I think I've said more than enough You said more than enough.

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00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:15.419
Okay, well, look, thank you everyone, and thank you to King James

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himself for joining us here this week.

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I'll change my Twitter handle immediately.

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Oh, King James.

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We'll obviously be back next week for episode nine, which has a

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super, super romantic title, which I really like, and I think is

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shaping up to be a bit scandy noir, so I'm a bit excited by that.

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We have finished our coverage of series one of Doctor Who on

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flights through entirety, and we will be taking a little break, but

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it's all there, ready for you to listen to at

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00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.080
flightthroughentirety.com.

333
00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:55.799
Flight through entirety on Apple Podcasts, and you can hear our

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00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.279
flights or entirety news at FTE podcast on Twitter.

335
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While you're on Twitter, you can also go to @jodyinterterra for

336
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.799
10s of tweets every month.

337
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.539
Um, uh, to keep you up with the Jody into Tara news, and of course

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00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:15.900
we're at Jody Interterra.com and Jody Interterra on Apple

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00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:16.859
Podcasts.

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00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.339
All right, gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us and we'll

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catch up with you next week.

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Bye, everyone.

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Bye.

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See you.

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Bye bye.