The Witchfinders

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody and Terra, the only gay Doctor Who flashcast that's actually less gay than the 2 villains in this episode.

We have all just watched the Witch Finders.

And we all, except me, have very, very strong opinions. on it.

And so I'm going to pick someone completely at random to give me their brief feelings, James, on what they thought of the episode.

Brief feeling. something that King James wanted to do to Ryan.

I don't think they were gonna be brief.

Sorry.

Anyway, that was a terrible joke.

Look, I think I enjoy this more than you did, Nathan.

I thought it was possible.

[01:03]

It was, you know, plot wise, it did not much happen, but the acting was good.

I quite enjoyed Alan coming. anyway.

And I liked the fact that it was, it was, you know, obviously it's not historically accurate, but there was some real history in there, the fact that, you know, he was portrayed as gay and, you know, not everybody would necessarily know that unless they'd studied history.

Yes, I think you'll have something to say about that in a moment.

But I enjoyed it.

Not as much as last week. or the political episodes, but generally I thought it was solid and...

Okay.

And worth watching?

What did what did you think about it, Todd?

Well, I know all about space.

Praise Satan.

Look, I just...

[02:03]

I kept thinking every time he said that.

I just really, really enjoyed it.

I love the fact that Jody got to go up against the bitch from Downton Abbey and then she got into a bigger bitch and then Ryan was almost the bitch to the biggest bitch to them all.

I couldn't believe what Alan Cumming was actually doing on screen.

I thought at first.

This is an interesting acting choice.

And I just thought it was just, oh, I actually, I really enjoyed him.

I thought he was much more soldied than he was chief caretaker and I just really, really enjoyed it.

I love that the psychic paper didn't quite get the doctor, the autonomy that, you know, it sort of gives the doctor and that was a little twist with her having to be, you know, dealing with seeing a woman.

Yeah, it still couldn't overcome King James's sexism, could it?

It worked on Becca.

And, you know, I like the fact that there was an alien threat and, um, and I loved Yaz's face when, you know, obviously, you know, Ryan was considering the king's offer and I just really, really enjoyed it.

[03:09]

I probably enjoyed it even more than last week.

So there you go.

Fantastic.

What about you, Brandon?

Um, yeah, I'm with Todd.

I really, really enjoyed this one.

Um, I thought it was a great little historical romp in the tradition of uh, the visitation or Mark of the Rani with um, a star, star term, from Alan Cumming.

Um, I also very much liked how his homosexuality was portrayed, and it made me go and look up his, um, his relationships, and...

One of his very early relationships ended in great tragedy, and that isn't directly referred to him the episode, but, Yeah, reading about King James, you know, you discover.

Yeah, he did lose a lot of people very close to him through treachery or through people trying to get to him through those people.

So, Alan Cumming sort of plays the role farcically to begin with, but there is this sort of very hurt person underneath.

[04:13]

And my favourite bit of the episode.

The doctor finally brews something up.

I'm so happy.

I'm so happy that she blew something up.

And, you know, that she actually not only takes a stand at the beginning to stop granny from being dumped, even though that's not successful, but she tries to talk to the aliens and tries to find out what they want and only attacks them when it becomes absolutely clear that they intend to wipe out everyone.

And she doesn't kill them though, does she?

I mean, she just re-imprisons them.

She just re-imprisons them.

So she carries out the original sentence of whatever court has sent them here.

Yeah, and I also thought Becca was very well played.

Um, interesting note from friend of the podcast, um, Alex Gibbs.

He messaged me earlier and said, Remember Alan Cumming from the Witchfinders, and it would be like removing Cato Mara and Anthony Ainley from Mark of the Rani.

Discuss.

[05:14]

I'd say he was half right.

But yeah, overall, I thought it was a very strong episode.

And I actually think this might be the new normal.

As you were talking about with Saranga conundrum a few weeks ago, Nathan, I actually think this kind of level is the new normal.

No, I'm happy with that.

I have to say that I thought it was a bit thin and a bit slow.

But it was super lifted by the guest cast, who I think were really good.

And look, I mean, this is one.

I've seen this once.

Normally I've tried to watch them twice before the recording the flashcast, but I just didn't get the chance this time.

So I saw it in my huddled in my study on my iPad at, you know, at work at 6 o'clock in the morning.

And so I may not have been in the sort of best temper for it, but I actually found coming a bit like bordering on offensive, just in the sense of kind of gay male representation in the show.

[06:24]

Like people have talked about, you know, we've had 2 dead lesbians in the show so far this season.

I don't think we've had a gay man in Doctor Who for quite some time and to have someone who is sort of so so predatory and so sort of stereotyped.

And like, I'm a huge fan of the gay villain, you know, like I love Harrison Chase and stuff, but I just wish that that wasn't the only representation we were getting.

See, that's not the way I read it.

I read it as his flirting in a world where, you know, even though he's king.

It's still quite dangerous for him too.

And I really liked the way that, although Ryan, to all sort of indications we have had so far with the flirting with Yaz is possibly straight.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Like he doesn't have a defined sexuality as yet.

And I'm fine with that.

But it, I liked the fact that Ryan was just kind of a bit bemused and uncomfortable with the whole thing and didn't, you know, hit, yeah, if that had happened 20 years ago, not in Doctor Who, because it wasn't on, but that had happened 20 years ago, that character would have had more of a problem with that.

[07:41]

I like the fact that he just kind of went, oh, I'm not interested, but it's kind of sweet that he's flirting with me.

I mean, that was the point you made during the week too, Brendan, I think, in chat, was that there was no gay panic from Ryan about it at all.

Yeah, and also for King James's part, when Ryan sort of doesn't respond to his advances, there's no threat or menace from King James.

He's just like, oh, you know, I'll, I will keep letting you know I'm interested, but I think it's also very important that he still talks to Ryan almost as an equal, like, you know, they chat about their pasts and yeah, it's Ryan imploring him to get the doctor out of the water that changes his mind.

I actually think that Ryan is really good this episode too.

It's another episode where they've given all the regular something to do.

Yeah.

In fact, the doctor, I think this is the best episode for Jody so far.

She gets a proper confrontation with a villain.

And, you know, like before, you know, everyone writes in.

[08:44]

I mean, I guess King James isn't really a villain and he's certainly on our side by the end, he's not, you know, it's a bit of a fake out, isn't it?

And she gets to properly persuade him and empathise with him.

She does some heroic sort of jumping in the water and, you know, all of that.

She's really, really sort of fun and doctor-ish and likeable.

And all those, all those things about if, you know, having to prove herself because, um, you know, she's a woman.

I liked the fact that they actually dressed the gender in this week's episode.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If I'd been a bloke, I would have sort of, yeah.

I would have liked them to have actually dressed up a bit, like, in some sort of historical drab rather than just walking in in regular clothes.

I don't know.

I just kind of felt that.

Have they changed it all this season?

They have changed clothes.

Apart from Jody's top?

Yeah.

Yeah, they had they had changed clothes, but it's always been sort of modern clobber.

And the thing is, they could have got away with being in the right period gear because they thought they were going to Elizabeth the 1st coronation, which historically isn't that far off.

[09:51]

Yeah.

Yeah. forgot that.

I know those aliens still trapped under that hill?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought that they were, I thought the aliens were really crappy. can I just say?

Like they were super perfunctory and I would have.

They basically just serve the Gelt without, you know, saying, oh, you know, we're really poor and we're really sad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're not gas monsters.

They look like shit.

Well, I thought that they I thought that they looked like Tim Shaw before he started collecting teeth.

Like they were like super, super unmemorable, I think. before the work.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Give me a pteroleptic.

Give me Michael Mealia in black sorrow before the reconstruction.

Billy Piper in series 4.

No offence.

Sorry.

No offence to you, James, but every time King James was on the screen, I did think of you.

[10:53]

Who's the innuendo?

Sorry, who's more cat?

Yeah, I just kind of thought, well, we've got our own King James.

I'll take that.

Oh, James.

As Anthony Ainley, in Time Incorporated.

Well, yeah, all right.

Anything else?

I mean, the show continues to look incredible.

There were one on 2 sort of weird drone shots from above on the forest, which I thought looked great.

Sogunakanola is just amazingly good.

How did you like the minx?

I like the ending.

I always like it when somebody sees the TARDIS, you know, dematerialised.

Yeah, that was a good classic ending.

Look, I think her name was Joy Wilkinson, and she, uh, Paul Cornell retweeted some tweets of hers, where she was sort of triumphantly saying how delighted she was that her episode had got such a positive reaction, and she posted some pictures of some books um, that she had read to do research, and uh, she has some academic background.

[12:01]

I think, but at least had written about King James.

So it was all sort of from a period that she knew about.

And she just seemed super delighted and super happy with the cast and all of that sort of thing.

And I think that just made me terribly happy.

But she seemed to have a real grasp on kind of Doctor Who law, you know, that scene where, you know, a guest star, escorts our regulars to the TARDIS, and they say goodbye, and the guests start watches the Tartar steam materialise.

Time Warrior.

Yeah, yeah, Time Warrior.

I'm thinking, you know, terror of the Zygons.

Like, it's a thing that happens over and over again.

It is really lovely and comfortable.

And she knew how the Sonic worked and she knew how the psychic paper worked and she really just seemed to know the show.

And there's some nice quotes there, as though getting into the TARDIS from Tarantino and then the other one about that appears like magic or whatever that quote is, but everybody knows.

The other C.

Clark one.

Yeah, and of course, King James, who's responsible for the authorised version of the Bible, which was used for 450 years in England and is still used in places today, obviously recognises that as being a quote from Ezekiel, where, of course, it was a quote from pulp fiction as far as Graham was concerned.

[13:19]

I still think it should be compulsory for the doctor to utter a line of exasperated dialogue with the name Graham at the end of it in each episode.

Are we still waiting for this episode?

Stop harshing the vibe, Graham.

I really like...

What about the hat?

I should like a hat like that.

I really enjoyed the Houdini reference.

She's a bit she's a bit pertly with all these.

That was a very poetry reference.

It is slightly dangerous, I think.

And I think that they avoided the pitfalls here, but, you know, the previous two historicals worked well by keeping the science fiction stuff to a minimum.

Here, you know, it was a little bit earlier in time and a little bit less politically important.

So you could have stupid poo monsters without any sort of particular problem.

But I do think having the doctor escape from the dunking thing that's killed 35 people, you know, does risk saying if only those women had been a little bit more clever and had done a little bit.

[14:25]

But yeah, that's right, a bit more sort of core stability they could have escaped as well.

Oh boy.

I'm doing them now, darling.

Is that your Kegels?

That was quite dark that seeing the granny dunked, you know, like that was, and I think that they kind of cut around it a bit and made it a bit less horrifying than it was when it happened to the doctor.

But, you know, yeah.

But I do, the only thing I do like the fact that, and Brendan said that he went and researched King James.

It made me want to do that.

Like, they didn't know much about it about him.

And so I like that when Doctor Who, you know, gives me a concept or something or a bit of historical thing where I have to go and then, you know, want to find out more about it.

And I really liked that.

I think King James did write a book about witches, someone at school informed me today.

So it was a thing.

It wasn't just, you know, a thing that was sort of grafted on.

Do you know, for one weird 2nd when he was honouring the background with that mask on, I thought, ooh, Krasco.

[15:30]

What if it's Krasco?

It wasn't Crasco.

So those dogs were not my dogs furiously copulating in the backyard.

They were actually the...

Why do we have dogs?

The witches familiars.

So that's our time for the day.

Gentlemen, does anyone have a closing statement?

Great fun.

Yep.

Yeah, a who to laugh and one of the most over-top performances this century.

So thank you, Alan.

Okay, that's fantastic.

Yes.

Okay.

I think I've said more than enough You said more than enough.

Okay, well, look, thank you everyone, and thank you to King James himself for joining us here this week.

I'll change my Twitter handle immediately.

Oh, King James.

We'll obviously be back next week for episode nine, which has a super, super romantic title, which I really like, and I think is shaping up to be a bit scandy noir, so I'm a bit excited by that.

[16:39]

We have finished our coverage of series one of Doctor Who on flights through entirety, and we will be taking a little break, but it's all there, ready for you to listen to at flightthroughentirety.com.

Flight through entirety on Apple Podcasts, and you can hear our flights or entirety news at FTE podcast on Twitter.

While you're on Twitter, you can also go to @jodyinterterra for 10s of tweets every month.

Um, uh, to keep you up with the Jody into Tara news, and of course, we're at Jody Interterra.com and Jody Interterra on Apple Podcasts.

All right, gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us and we'll catch up with you next week.

Bye, everyone.

Bye.

See you.

Bye bye.