WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:05:54

1
00:00:00.300 --> 00:00:05.940
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Inter Terror, the

2
00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:10.080
only Doctor Who flash cast surprised to find ourselves watching a

3
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.000
remake of the massacre this week.

4
00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:17.519
So we're all here, and we're all in the same room having a big

5
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:19.260
pyjama party today.

6
00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:23.160
Um, and we're joined for the 1st time on Jodie into Terra by

7
00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:23.460
Peter.

8
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:24.899
I'm in my birthday suit.

9
00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:28.980
Oh, my eyes, my yeah, look away, James.

10
00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:30.780
Look away, James.

11
00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:36.960
Yeah, so a few of our regulars aren't joining us this week, but we

12
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:39.600
have had some feedback to convey from them.

13
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:44.100
And I have to credit Brendan and friend of the podcast, Johnny

14
00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:47.520
Spandrel, for the observation that this is a remake of the

15
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:52.200
massacre, in that the doctor walks away from an imminent giant

16
00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:59.820
into kind of sectarian kind of conflict. that they can do nothing

17
00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:07.500
to stop and ends up finding in the TARDIS, the descendant of one

18
00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:12.000
of the people that they were unable to save from that conflict.

19
00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:14.939
Yeah, it's also not a remake of the massacre in there. pretty

20
00:01:14.939 --> 00:01:15.120
good.

21
00:01:15.180 --> 00:01:16.439
That's right.

22
00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:18.120
Oh, dear.

23
00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:18.599
Yeah.

24
00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:19.859
Sore point.

25
00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:25.799
And Brendan was, you know, he was he was very positive.

26
00:01:25.859 --> 00:01:28.560
I spoke to Todd during the week and he really enjoyed the episode

27
00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:30.000
as well.

28
00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:34.079
I haven't yet heard Richard's take on it, James, have you?

29
00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:36.959
No, no. sure he loved it.

30
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:44.040
But let's, well, you know, let's hear what our guest Peter has to

31
00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:44.219
say.

32
00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:47.099
Well, I liked it quite a lot.

33
00:01:47.459 --> 00:01:51.180
This and Rosa are my favourite episodes of the series.

34
00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:55.260
And charitably, you could say that's because I just like

35
00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:56.159
historical backdrop.

36
00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.640
Um, you know, give me a king's demons over a terminus any day.

37
00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:01.739
It's a bit of a devil's choice.

38
00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:04.500
There's no winners in that choice.

39
00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:06.780
Less charitably.

40
00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.139
Do I like this episode more than others because I'm just not a fan

41
00:02:10.139 --> 00:02:11.879
of Chris Chipnall's writing.

42
00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:13.139
The jury's out on that one.

43
00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:14.340
I think.

44
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:19.080
We haven't yet had an episode that hasn't had a Chris Gibnall

45
00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.639
credit on it, and he obviously shared the credit for Rosa.

46
00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:29.819
And I think, you know, it's telling that for me, both of those

47
00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:34.620
episodes, those historical episodes are sort of really strong

48
00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:37.919
which is not to say that there aren't other episodes that I like.

49
00:02:37.979 --> 00:02:44.099
I've liked, like I had fun during episodes 4 and five, which some

50
00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:45.539
people will be surprised to hear.

51
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.400
Todd, are you there?

52
00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:55.860
But I think, you know, in terms of proper just riding quality, that

53
00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:58.860
sort of definitely are kind above.

54
00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:03.840
We, you know, I didn't get the chance to say last week that I

55
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.379
thought the big problem with the Taranga conundrum is that it

56
00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:08.819
doesn't seem to be about anything.

57
00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:13.080
You know, and we watched classic Doctor Who for 26 years without

58
00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:14.340
expecting it to be about anything.

59
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.659
Frequently wasn't.

60
00:03:15.659 --> 00:03:16.500
Yeah, yeah.

61
00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:19.560
And sometimes it was about being racist.

62
00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:25.319
But, uh, so, you know, that's not an absolute killer, but I think

63
00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.800
we are kind of used to it. you know, being about something or

64
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:30.719
having some kind of thematic cohesion.

65
00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:33.659
I think this week, it absolutely did do that.

66
00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:35.400
Absolutely.

67
00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:38.460
I mean, the partition of India is just a fascinating moment in

68
00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:41.759
history. and you wonder what it took doctor so long to get there.

69
00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.180
It's not a sexy period of history.

70
00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.020
But for what it represented and the trauma, it kind of caused

71
00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:52.319
1000000s of people and the ramifications for the region and the

72
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:55.680
world, you know, sort of even 70 years later, it's huge.

73
00:03:55.740 --> 00:04:00.659
And like the episode with Rosa Parks, it felt like we were

74
00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:03.780
visiting a part of history, which, you know, you really want to

75
00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:06.659
look at and talk about, but it's just not an obvious place to go

76
00:04:06.659 --> 00:04:06.840
to.

77
00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:08.280
Yeah.

78
00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:09.060
Yeah.

79
00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:09.960
What do you think?

80
00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:15.300
Well, I, look, I, yes, as fans, the classic series, I would tend

81
00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:17.339
to agree with you that it's not obvious to us.

82
00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:21.240
I think it's very obvious.

83
00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:27.180
That we need to look at these. events in history, especially in

84
00:04:27.180 --> 00:04:29.819
the present political climate that we find ourselves in.

85
00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:37.379
Um, There was a meme going around the internet recently, uh, about

86
00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:42.240
uh, uh, you know, a classic series fan who someone uncharitably

87
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.519
described as a, as a bigot.

88
00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:46.259
Because he was.

89
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:47.699
Really?

90
00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:51.600
I'm saying, yeah, with a picture of the Tom Baker title sequence

91
00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:52.920
saying...

92
00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:54.660
This is my Doctor Who.

93
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.500
He fights Daleks and cybermen, not social injustices.

94
00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.959
And I went, no, screw you.

95
00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:03.899
This is my, this is my Doctor Who.

96
00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.360
She bites social injustice.

97
00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.120
Are you telling me that Rosa Park's not worthy of the diamond

98
00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:09.660
leg?

99
00:05:10.139 --> 00:05:12.000
How dare you?

100
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:18.180
But it's like, no, no, this is the doctor who that I want to see

101
00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:18.779
right now.

102
00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:25.740
This, I, I, I've loved Doctor Who my entire life because it does

103
00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:31.560
occasionally deal with, you know, with quite serious issues

104
00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:32.759
usually through allegory.

105
00:05:32.819 --> 00:05:34.259
Happiness patrol.

106
00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:37.019
Genesis of the Daleks.

107
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:43.920
Yeah, like it's usually space Nazis. or Space Thatcher.

108
00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:52.500
But I love the fact that this series, when it has dealt with with

109
00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:57.720
that sort of material, it's tackled it head on and I think you

110
00:05:57.720 --> 00:05:58.439
need to now.

111
00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:01.920
I don't think you can, I mean, you probably, you can, you can

112
00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.279
still do space, you know, space injustice.

113
00:06:05.339 --> 00:06:06.000
Yeah.

114
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:10.740
But I think it's really important that it is actually dealing with

115
00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:18.720
things like racism in America and, um, the partition of India.

116
00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:19.319
Yeah.

117
00:06:19.379 --> 00:06:24.420
I think I think that there is a problem from a narrative viewpoint

118
00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:28.379
about these, these historical stories, and there always kind of

119
00:06:28.379 --> 00:06:28.920
has been.

120
00:06:28.980 --> 00:06:31.800
And I think that this did a pretty good job of dealing with it.

121
00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:36.180
So the problem with a story like this is that the doctor isn't

122
00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:40.259
going to stop the partition of India and stop 1000000s of people

123
00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:41.279
from being massacred.

124
00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:42.120
And why?

125
00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:43.920
Yeah, and why not?

126
00:06:43.980 --> 00:06:46.199
You know, like, why can't she do that?

127
00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:50.220
And it's really just a sort of choice of narrative aesthetic.

128
00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.939
Like the people writing Doctor Who story set in the past don't

129
00:06:53.939 --> 00:06:55.439
want to change the past.

130
00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:58.860
And having the doctor come in and solve those problems would

131
00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:02.699
obviously have all sorts of, you know, horrific kind of

132
00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:03.480
implications.

133
00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:06.480
You know, like a white woman comes in and single-handedly. solves

134
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:11.279
an absolutely intractable problem on behalf of, you know, a lot of

135
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:14.279
Indians and that would have been really just sort of quite

136
00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:14.699
terrible.

137
00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.480
So I can understand why they don't want to do that, but it does

138
00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.980
leave the doctor with very little to do.

139
00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.680
And that was the massacre, wasn't it?

140
00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:26.399
Remember, there's that big argument that Stephen has with the

141
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.339
doctor at the end of the massacre and says, well, why aren't you

142
00:07:29.339 --> 00:07:30.480
doing anything about this?

143
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.420
And then he kind of storms off.

144
00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:41.040
And here, though, they do it successfully by having Yaz Yaz's

145
00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:41.759
existence at stake.

146
00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:44.939
I'm not sure that completely solves the moral problem, but at

147
00:07:44.939 --> 00:07:48.959
least makes it, you know, better than David Tennant gnashing his

148
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.379
teeth and going on about a fixed point in time, which is a concept

149
00:07:52.379 --> 00:07:54.779
of no moral significance whatsoever.

150
00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.540
That's true, and they do make that a plot point, but they don't

151
00:07:57.540 --> 00:07:58.019
labour it.

152
00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:00.720
The whole episode is not about what will happen if Yaz doesn't

153
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:01.079
exist anymore.

154
00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:02.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

155
00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.399
In fact, they backpedal the science fiction thing, which seems to

156
00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.040
me to be a chibnal thing.

157
00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:14.160
Chibnal doesn't want to have his Doctor Who in a world full of

158
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:18.180
Daleks and Sidemen and drashics and things.

159
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:23.279
He wants to have a sort of sparser world with less fantastical

160
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:24.060
elements, I think.

161
00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:28.199
I like these historical stories, which are not celebrity.

162
00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:32.159
It would have been a much worse episode if we'd met Mount Batten.

163
00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:34.080
I like it when they...

164
00:08:34.139 --> 00:08:34.799
Exactly.

165
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.740
I like when they play out through sort of the little people and

166
00:08:37.740 --> 00:08:39.779
the guest characters and they're just trying to like get on with

167
00:08:39.779 --> 00:08:43.620
their lives or get married or whatever and sort of overcome by

168
00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:45.659
history or history kind of swarms over them.

169
00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:51.840
I don't know if they're a writer, Vinay Patel, had a family

170
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.779
connection to anything that happened during the partition, but it

171
00:08:54.779 --> 00:08:55.919
felt like a personal episode.

172
00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:59.519
It felt like he sort of viscerally got what people who live

173
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:01.080
through the partition suffered through.

174
00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.519
Well, I mean, if you think about how recent it is, you know, anyone

175
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:12.179
who has moved to Britain from India or whose family has moved

176
00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:16.919
there in the last few generations would have stories around it

177
00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:17.879
given how huge it was.

178
00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:25.019
It's probably one of the most, um, real history historical stories

179
00:09:25.019 --> 00:09:25.799
we've ever had.

180
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.559
We've had more recent stories.

181
00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:30.779
So I mean, remember, it's the Daleks, 7th the 60s.

182
00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:35.879
But it doesn't really deal with anything real.

183
00:09:35.940 --> 00:09:37.440
Why is it said in the 60s?

184
00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:38.039
60s.

185
00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:41.039
This is dealing with, you know, real historical events.

186
00:09:41.100 --> 00:09:43.080
I don't think we've had anything later, have we?

187
00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.240
I think...

188
00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.440
Oh, no.

189
00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:48.299
I mean, like we've had stories said in the 80s.

190
00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:49.559
Yeah.

191
00:09:49.620 --> 00:09:54.000
But again, you know, that, I mean, the story that leaps to mind is

192
00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.360
Father's Day in that set in the 80s simply because of who Rose

193
00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:57.659
is.

194
00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:00.539
There's nothing happens in the 80s. 80s.

195
00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.620
It's just set then.

196
00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:03.779
But there's a real unity to it.

197
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.019
You know, you've got the marriage between a Muslim man.

198
00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:13.379
Sorry, a Hindu man and a Muslim woman at the time when Hindus and

199
00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:17.519
Muslims are being separated by this line at the time when it's

200
00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.759
being torn apart and the wedding itself happens over that line.

201
00:10:20.820 --> 00:10:25.320
It's so, I mean, that's so terrifically poetic. isn't it Yeah.

202
00:10:25.379 --> 00:10:29.940
And then and then you've got these aliens and the aliens job is to

203
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:34.019
remember deaths that people have forgotten.

204
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.860
And I think by having the aliens do that.

205
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.559
I mean, that's this episode's job as well, isn't it?

206
00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:43.259
Like, I think Patel wants us.

207
00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.360
I think, look, I don't know how well people in England know about

208
00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:49.679
the partition of India.

209
00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.860
You know, there are many more Indian people.

210
00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.159
There are plenty of Indian people living in Australia, but nowhere

211
00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.080
near as many as there are in Britain.

212
00:10:58.139 --> 00:11:02.460
And so I don't know how aware, you know, white Britons who don't

213
00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:04.080
have that particular ethnic background.

214
00:11:04.139 --> 00:11:05.460
I don't know how aware they are of that.

215
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:10.200
Um, but it seems likely to me that, that, um, you know, people of

216
00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.539
Indian background do know. know about it.

217
00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:20.100
And, you know, it's placed very squarely at the foot of, you know

218
00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:23.340
Mount Batten and the government and Whitehall and these sort of

219
00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:27.720
weird decisions made about borders in offices that are, you know

220
00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:28.620
1000s of miles away.

221
00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:37.200
Um, And I think that Patel wants to remind us of that, you know, to

222
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.000
make that clear to us.

223
00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:43.080
And I think that the aliens really resonate for that reason.

224
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:47.940
Yeah, I mean, there's been a bit of attention are paid to that

225
00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:50.820
part of history recently with films like Viceroy's House.

226
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:55.500
But that was very much told from Mount Batten's point of view and

227
00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:57.240
sort of redeemed him as a character in that.

228
00:11:57.299 --> 00:12:00.539
And I don't know what the truth for it was, whether he was, you

229
00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:04.259
know, part of the decision making or wasn't as the film purported

230
00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:07.379
but to see it on the ground is a different matter.

231
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:08.159
Yeah.

232
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:14.820
I like to, I liked what you were saying earlier about how we're

233
00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:18.480
just dealing with real people. you know, sorry, not real people

234
00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:19.139
but normal people.

235
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:19.799
Yeah.

236
00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:20.580
The average person.

237
00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:25.259
Not with famous figures in history and seeing how that affects the

238
00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:28.740
average person and tears those families apart.

239
00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:34.980
And, you know, a brother turning S, another brother and then him

240
00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:40.500
being shot by his friends, his comrades.

241
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.059
That's the thing about the partition, wasn't it?

242
00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.580
as much a humanitarian crisis as anything else.

243
00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:51.120
I think to, there's a modern resonance to Manisha's radicalisation

244
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:56.399
which is that he's like young men on the internet.

245
00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.879
Now, he's fond of pamphlets and listening to angry people on the

246
00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:00.299
radio.

247
00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:03.899
And increasingly, the world is full of young men radicalised by

248
00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:10.139
you know, reading crazy nonsense on the internet.

249
00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:13.679
And so I thought that that was sort of particularly well done.

250
00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:18.600
Um, uh, you know, and something that needed to be said in 2018.

251
00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:21.960
And I have to think too, like, you know, breaks, it's not likely

252
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.820
to be quiet the humanitarian disaster that the partition was, but

253
00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:28.320
having...

254
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:34.620
Well, having, oh, James, having a, having...

255
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:36.419
I know.

256
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:37.679
Have you met me?

257
00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:40.379
I don't think anyone has thought of Brexit sexually ever.

258
00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:44.879
But you've got to think that, you know, like this huge dumb

259
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:48.240
decision being made in a Whitehall office by people who don't

260
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.440
particularly care and causing sort of misery and havoc on

261
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:57.480
obviously, a much greater scale than Brexit, is being told in 2018

262
00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:58.679
partly because of Brexit as well.

263
00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:00.240
Yeah, that's right.

264
00:14:00.299 --> 00:14:03.779
This episode, I really liked this episode.

265
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.779
I don't think it was hugely subtle in places.

266
00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:08.759
Sometimes spirit history lesson.

267
00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:12.539
So there's nothing as egregious as the last scene in Rosa.

268
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.399
With her giant space rock.

269
00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:17.460
Maybe they can name a moon after prem and fix that.

270
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:19.740
I love as well.

271
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:23.039
Speaking of subtlety, the fact that they turn up at Umbreen's

272
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.519
place at the very moment that the partition is announced by Mount

273
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:27.899
Batten over the radio.

274
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:29.460
I mean, what a coincidence.

275
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.000
Well, the 1st person they made is prem, like the 1st person that

276
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.519
comes along is, guess what?

277
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.980
About to marry, yes, grandmother.

278
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.200
Do you know, I really thought they were going to do a joke when

279
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.139
they say, oh, you know, we're here to see Umbreen, that he was

280
00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:45.539
going to make a joke of, of course I know Umbreen.

281
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.100
There's only 2 people in all of India.

282
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.159
It turns out that, in fact, yes, he was going to marry Umbrine.

283
00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:55.320
Well, I'm head canoning that because, oh, just give me a second.

284
00:14:55.379 --> 00:15:00.240
I'm head canoning that because the watch brought the TARDIS to the

285
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.440
point near where it broke.

286
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.080
That's some a beautiful sound, James.

287
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:05.340
Do you want to tell us what that is?

288
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:06.539
That's 15 minutes, is it?

289
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:07.320
Yes.

290
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.120
Okay.

291
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:10.080
Okay.

292
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.179
Go on, Peter.

293
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.940
Well, I don't really have anything more to say on that.

294
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.259
I mean, yeah what a coincidence.

295
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.320
But also the doctor's very slow on the uptake in that scene.

296
00:15:19.379 --> 00:15:21.600
By the time she's going, 0 my god, it's the partition.

297
00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:22.919
You're like, well, well done, love.

298
00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:23.399
Keep up.

299
00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:25.860
I thought that it was really good this week.

300
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:27.779
You know, there's the thing where the doctor sort of waltzes in

301
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:28.559
and just knows everything.

302
00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.440
Oh, it's the Vegarians and I know all about them and stuff and

303
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:32.100
then she's wrong.

304
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.580
And I think that they've really hit the reset on the doctor's

305
00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:38.700
character and she's much more like the Hartnell doctor who has to

306
00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:42.360
work it out as she goes along and she theorises and gets it wrong

307
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.600
1st normally and then gets it right. kind of love that.

308
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:46.620
Yeah, I do too.

309
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.779
It's, and we...

310
00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:51.480
We lost that fetishising of the doctor as well, where the doctor

311
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.200
gets up and flares his nostrils and gnashes his teeth and says, I

312
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.840
am the doctor from the planet Gallifre.

313
00:15:57.899 --> 00:15:58.679
Where is he from again?

314
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.539
in the constellation of Custurbus.

315
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:01.740
Yes, we know you are.

316
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.820
I'm glad that's over. and it was pretty much announced in the

317
00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.519
woman that fell to earth that we weren't going to get that sort of

318
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:09.179
doctor anymore.

319
00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:10.679
Yeah, it's good.

320
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:11.759
I do kind of like that.

321
00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:15.960
Look, I thought it was, I think that the chibnal approach, which

322
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.779
is really straightforward stories without lots of science fiction

323
00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:22.019
where everything's sort of explained and the dialogue is very

324
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:28.200
exposition heavy, kind of works better in historical. think you're

325
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:28.320
right.

326
00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:30.539
And that's why those have been good.

327
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:35.519
I'm still not totally on board with this approach. yet.

328
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:40.559
I'm not sure that, that, you know, I think I said before on Jody

329
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:45.480
and Tetera, that I like the saturated colours of the sort of

330
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.139
cartoonish RTD era and the sort of crazy highs and lows and the

331
00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:52.379
fabulously witty dialogue, and I miss that, I think.

332
00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:54.539
You've been missing that for a decade.

333
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:58.980
Well, I mean, Moffat's reinvention of the show wasn't as radical

334
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:00.659
as Gibnals, though, I think.

335
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:04.319
Yes, I think it was more gradual.

336
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:05.640
It took place over a couple of years.

337
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:06.359
Yeah.

338
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:12.779
Look, I'm willing, I'm willing to give it a go because I, I mean, I

339
00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:18.420
look, I loved most of the last... 13 years of Doctor Who, but...

340
00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:26.099
They had kind of been mining that that seem for a long time and

341
00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:28.380
I'm, I'm just finding this so refreshing.

342
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:29.220
Yes, it's simple.

343
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.319
Yes, the dialogue can be clunky.

344
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:37.140
But the lead casts are really charming, it looks beautiful.

345
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.759
Yeah.

346
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:40.319
It sounds beautiful.

347
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:42.119
I love the music.

348
00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:45.420
It's such a departure from what we've been getting since 2005.

349
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:48.420
I, overall, I'm enjoying it.

350
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:49.559
It's different.

351
00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:51.960
I'm willing to give that difference a go.

352
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:54.660
Can I point out a couple of scenes that I really liked?

353
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:55.200
Yep.

354
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:58.440
The one where Graham and Ryan are with Prem before the wedding.

355
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:02.099
Oh, Prem, by the way, played by Shane Zaza from Happy Valley.

356
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:03.119
Really good performance.

357
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:04.440
Very handsome too.

358
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:05.099
Very handsome.

359
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.519
That scene with Graham and Ryan and them knowing that he was going

360
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:08.940
to die.

361
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:10.920
And Graham nearly loses it.

362
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.960
That's beautifully acted. gut wrenching.

363
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:14.819
I was almost in tears watching the scene.

364
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:16.799
The anguish is kind of written all over his face.

365
00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:17.700
That's a brilliant scene.

366
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.839
It's in the performance as well.

367
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:22.259
And I really like the Mandy scene as well before the wedding, with

368
00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:23.940
the hand drawing.

369
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.420
It's nice to have an all-female scene in Doctor Who, even if it

370
00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:29.099
did fail the Bechdel test.

371
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:32.940
Well, it was the day before heterosexual wedding.

372
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.799
What else are they going to take about?

373
00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:35.880
I did love that line.

374
00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:38.940
When I used to be a man.

375
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:44.339
Oh, my joke, my, my, my, uh, jokes about, uh, what was it?

376
00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:46.500
Gender and bodily regeneration. generation.

377
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.460
Just a joke.

378
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:48.359
I am such a comedian.

379
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:50.400
Very good.

380
00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:53.460
Sorry, there are many, there are moments of building.

381
00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:57.420
No, we're not editing any of that out, James.

382
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:00.539
All right.

383
00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:03.000
James's translation circuit, whatever.

384
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:06.539
All right, we are going to wind it up, I think.

385
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.140
Each episode of this series has been longer than the last.

386
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:16.619
So let's end it here. join us next week for an episode that I'm

387
00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:20.400
not going to spoil the title of by a writer that I'm not going to

388
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.660
spoil the identity of.

389
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:26.579
And you can also catch us, obviously, on our main podcast, Flight

390
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:31.559
through Entirety, where we are in the middle of the series one

391
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:32.460
finale.

392
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:36.240
And you can find that on flight through entirety.com at FDE

393
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.720
podcast on Twitter and flight through entirety on Apple Podcasts.

394
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:42.180
Until then, we'll see you next week.

395
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:43.500
Thanks for having me along.

396
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:44.279
Ta-ta.