Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the
only Doctor Who flash cast that could really go for a particle
accelerator just about now.
We're all here and we're here to discuss this week's episode, the
Saranga, what's it called?
Leila?
The Saranga Leila conundrum.
So, which is fitting really, actually, an amazing coincidence.
So we've all watched it several times in the last sort of 24 hours
or so and we all have bracing opinions to share.
So I am going to throw to Todd, I think.
Oh, I, I, I, I get to start again.
Thank you.
Brendan keeps refusing.
Okay.
Well, brace yourselves. everyone and listeners.
Look, at the beginning of this, I really liked it.
I thought that, you know, the Tartars has lost and it appears to
be critical to the plot and then it wasn't.
And then the doctor, you know, is injured more than the others.
And that appears to be critical to the plot.
And then it's really not.
Um, I really like the 5th doctor, Neris Hughes sort of
relationship with the male medic, um, pastos.
And when he pulled up the selfish doctor, I thought that was
brilliant.
And I thought, this is great.
This chemistry we're going to have all the way through.
This is going to be wonderful.
It felt very kinder at this stage, didn't it, Todd?
Yes.
Yeah.
I had someone heard that it was pretty.
Very pretty.
And then Sonic.
And then and then I, yeah, I thought he was going to be critical
to the plot.
And then well, he wasn't.
And then, of course, we had the Sonic, you know, getting eaten by
the, the, the Tuping, and I thought, oh, that's going to be
critical to the plot, and then it really wasn't.
The moment we lost him, I began to lose hard a bit.
I didn't bond with the characters of the general and her crew at
all.
I thought they were terrible cliches in their relationships. you
know, she's lying about her, um, condition and then she turns out
to be a pilot and I'm thinking when we, when they got to the
asteroid thing, oh, yes, she's going to see them through the
asteroids and she's probably going to die, and of course, that's
the roof we went.
But of course, we've just got people standing around, you know, in
a, in a room, sort of wobbling around rather than actually seeing
it, and and at a time in the episode later in the episode when I
thought it was critical to sort of add some sort of oomph and
action, and it just sort of slid into mediocrity.
The shipped earlier on, looked wonderful, like Vivian Phase. like
you know.
It was.
That was exactly what I thought as well.
It was the hyperspaceship from Stones of Blood.
And, you know, they were heading off to an invisible enemy medic
you know, facility.
And, you know, that...
Pointless eye makeup.
Yes, that was there.
You know, I just got sick of all the technobabble, the
technobabble to establish to the general, to establish the ship
the location, the pregnancy.
We heard, you know, threat level chalice up from beetroot.
We sort of had these things, like in episode 2 where we were
establishing the race and the currency.
And I just thought, this is not, for me, it was like cliche, it
wasn't clever writing, it was just like obvious sort of writing.
I'm trying to be like RTD but I'm not half as clever.
The female medic not having like having issues with her ability to
step up sort of thing, you know, not sure of herself.
Like, I just thought, oh, another cliche.
And what sort of began to ruin it for me was the fact that a lot
of the doctor's speeches, I didn't think were cleverly written.
I just thought they were really quite banal and quite simple.
And I didn't feel it when the doctor was talking to her to try and
make her step up.
I just, I was just losing heart with some of the dialogue that
poor Jody was having to deliver and then she gave us a science
lesson on whatever that, the, the, the antimatter thing.
And I want her to have a voice that's not chibnals because I just
think the writing in that other episode was so much better, short
sharp, and she had great reactions, and this just was just getting
painful.
And then in the last 15 minutes, that the chimes music just began
to get on my, like, the pan pipes from hell.
I just wanted to stop.
I wanted to stop.
They were so annoying.
I just wanted to halt the episode.
Many can't watch picnic at hanging rock without feeling exactly
the same way.
Which one, the original or that terrible TV show?
I wouldn't know about a remake.
We don't do remakes on this podcast. consistent.
We're doing it now, launches, yes, not remakes.
We're talking NFTV about people standing around in corridors
urgently talking and that seem to be happening all the time.
We talked about, I was talking about, I think, in it, that I, what
are these extra 8 minutes going to bring?
And if you look at the extra 8 or 10 minutes, we had some lovely
lovely work by Tossin and Amanda, when they were talking about his
mum and dad, that was just beautiful.
I mean, Graham's stuff about called the midwife was hilarious.
Yeah.
And, um, we had the whole cliche males reacting to a pregnancy
thing, which I was just rolling my eyes at.
And, but, you know, spoiler alert people in episode 10, Chibmill's
going to get Ryan to do the fist pump to Graham, like, you know
call me out on that one.
Yep.
Oh, yes. absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, uh, uh, um, The Ting, like I'm typing, typing to, typing, drop
the Y, typing person.
No, it's the other around.
Peting.
I know, I know.
They're going, yeah, really, like, I thought that thing was
actually hilarious.
The conundrum was better.
It was after this food.
Like, if it sense that big major power source, why didn't it go
for it first, rather than all these little quantrain meals around
the ship first, look.
For me, you know, that 1st 15 minutes was like, you know, 9 or 8
out, 9 or 10 out of 10, I just loved it.
And then I just felt like rather than what I was wanting, but the
episode just saw, it just glided into mediocrity.
And this was my biggest fear with Gibinals writing.
And so at the end of it, I was just there going, 0 my goodness, I
can't give this any more than a four.
Oh, my goodness.
I was getting into the massacre territory there.
It probably ended up in, it's in my bottom 10.
I kind of feel like I'd rather go and watch the twins on them up.
Oh, or, or, um, what's that?
Or, um, the Tint Dilemma or, uh, Delta and the Bannerman.
And for me, that's like, you know, a huge thing.
Sorry guys.
Sorry, everyone.
You know, the stuff there was stuff I liked, but I just...
The dialogue was just screwing me in.
Well, um, all right.
What did you think, Brendan?
Look, um...
Most seasons of New Doctor Who, halfway through the season, they
have an episode that's fine.
You know, the long game is fine.
Lazarus experiment is fine.
Vampire of Venice, caretaker.
They're fine.
But I kind of feel that we're down to 10 episodes a year now.
With the same production period.
We probably shouldn't be having just fine episodes anymore.
And to be honest, I watched it again today.
And I'm glad I watched it again today because I was going to be a
lot more critical about it.
But watching it again, um, kind of made me realise why it didn't
work for me.
There are things that did work.
Todd's already pointed out that conversation between Ryan and
Yaz.
Not only well written, but really well performed on both their
parts.
Yaz continues to be criminally underused in my opinion, but she
got some really good stuff in the 2nd half of the episode and I
found myself thinking, Oh, Yas has been given a gun.
Well, of course, Yaz has been given a gun.
Yaz has training with firearms being a police officer and it made
me realise Yaz being a police officer hasn't really factored into
the plot in the last few episodes.
Like, we literally...
Makes sense.
That standoffs, yes.
That last week, she didn't make a point of the fact that she was a
police officer. personage.
Yeah, when they're in the hotel the entire time.
This guy is directing her with a gun and she doesn't go, watch it
mate.
I'm a police office.
Yeah.
But Brandon, she's like, Lisa.
She's like, Miss, when she gets a gun, she's brilliant.
The giant vibrating machine.
I thought that that scene with her and Jody...
Sorry, I'm talking over you.
Thanks to you, Brendan.
Sorry.
Oh, well, you're about to say the same with her, Jody, and the
airlock, yeah?
Yeah, yeah.
That was really good.
You could have picked a higher number, but that was really good.
But Todd, getting back to what you what you keep saying about Yaz
being Nissa, well, yeah, she's a concept companion.
The concept is that she is a police officer.
She's trainee police officer.
She wants to prove herself.
She also has to deal with racism in her day-to-day life, and those
concepts have been brought up, but they're only brought up when
they're germane to the plot.
Her character is currently a plot device.
Which really, which really annoys me.
Unless she gets stuff to do with Towson, and they bounce so
beautifully off each other, but of course, Towson has to have lots
of scenes with Bradley.
So they keep pushing the ass off to the side.
But where I with this episode fell down for me.
And I don't actually think it's in the script because I think in
terms of the writing and performances, this is the funniest
episode so far this year.
I had a few full on belly laughs while I was watching it, like
that called the midwife stuff, for instance.
But I think the direction of this episode really lets it down
because.
The conversation between Yaz and Ryan is beautiful.
Why are they stopping?
Why are they physically stopping during an emergency?
You know, we've got a, we've got a dialogue about that, though.
That is dialogue.
I should get moving, but a lampshade to me is not an effective way
to deal with that.
They could just keep moving through the corridors.
You know, there are psychologists around the world who find
walking therapy is better than sitting therapy and not that they
would make a point of that in the plot.
But there are whole scenes, not just that one, whole scenes where
it's like, um, okay, instead of just saying we're going to go over
here and do this now, you should be moving towards that because
you are in a very dangerous situation.
You're also in a very tiny set.
Like, there's not, there wasn't enough corridor for them to walk
along for that scene.
And I think that that's why there's still...
If there's enough corridor in Blake 7, there's enough corridor in
Doctor Who in 2018, I just feel, I just feel that the direction at
many points just robs the tension of the performances and the
script.
Jennifer Perriot.
I hope I'm pronouncing that right.
New director to Doctor Who.
Australian director, I'm really hoping that she's also directing
next week's episode.
I'm really hoping that that is gonna be an improvement.
I think next week there's going to be location, you know, like I
think that will help.
Yeah, I think 7 out of 10 from me.
Still 7 out of 10 because of all that other stuff, but just the
direction really ground my gears.
I think I think the real test for Yaz's character next week.
Really?
Yeah.
I like next week's going to be the test for her character because
they're they're centring her in the plot, they're coming back into
her. forward to it.
Yeah, into her own...
Yeah, she's great.
She's super charming. to deliver.
Are you're cooking there, Todd, or?
I'm not cooking anything.
Not me.
Is that you, Richard?
No, I think that was just the plot falling out of the air long
after that to start with.
What did you think, Richard?
Me, Michael.
I have so many words, but most of them have been used already
by...
Oh, what's her name?
I keep wanting to see Olivia Hussey, but the lovely skinny girl
who played olive oil in Popeyeon was in Woody Allen, mini Woody
Allen movies like Manhattan.
Anyway, she played his girlfriend. will come back to me before I'm
finished.
When she describes sex with Woody Allen as lachrymose, Jejune, and
Kath Karesque.
And went on, and then she went on to...
This might be the only podcast to describe this episode as Kafka
esque.
She went on to elaborate sign.
I think she went on to have an affair with Carol Kane, who later
turns up in in Kimmy Schmidt as the crazy lady downstairs.
I found this.
Yeah, I know.
I love her too.
And I, and I, and I love, I love, I love the 1st part that Todd
was into so much and I was admiring that the set, the whole show
had a, had a very 60s feel to it.
And I was looking at a set thinking, all these corners and edges
are actually incredibly expensive to build, and I can describe to
you all the work that the plasterers and builders would have gone
to.
And then they went and stuck some Star Trek pipes on them, and I
thought they deliberately trying to make this look cheap for a
reason.
It's a lovely harbinger to, um, to what was going on in the 60s
and then maybe being pointed to again in the 80s and some of our
favourite stories.
So pretty much after that moment with the Sonic and the pregnancy
and thing, I turned on twin dilemma and I...
Turned the collar down because I'm not into self-harming through
willingness anyway.
So I turned the colour down and I really found it entertaining and
the sets are gorgeous and they feel a lot like the space museum.
So I went and turned on the space museum, and I can tell you
that's a great story with really lovely steps and some terrific
spaceships and lots of work in it.
The performances are superb and witty, and there's a lot of
Jonas.
There a lot of standing around in corridors, prattling lines that
don't seem to go anywhere and don't appear to have anything to do
with any plot or any exegencies of any reason at all, and that the
best people, such as Barbara, are left standing around with
interesting haircuts, much like, um, Miss, uh, what's her name?
Sorry, I just keep calling her Yaz, but yeah, much like much like
my favourite character in this season, which is the police
person.
So yeah, I can hardly recommend to you both.
The Space Museum and the twin dilemma with the colours turned
down.
I really enjoyed both of them last.
So I think we could hear in the background of Richard's speech, our
Marigold's Thermon.
We've released the fees from it and it was making a beautiful
sound in the background.
So we have written 15 minutes.
Um, I, I do want to say something, though, about the episode, which
is that, um, I think that this is the new normal.
I think the things that are being identified as flaws by all of us
here, what we should really now come to expect from this season.
The plots are very simple.
And as Todd said, you know, that whole plot with Eve, Cicero was
you know, it was very clear where that was going right from the
beginning.
And so, and there is a kind of linearity and a kind of, like a
simplicity, I don't want to say a lack of ambition because I think
it is a conscious reaction to what we've had for the last couple
of years.
And I do think that what they've decided to do, they're doing very
well.
I don't really agree with the criticisms of the look of the show.
I thought it looked amazing this week.
I did think it looked cheaper than other episodes, but I did
think.
It wasn't cheap. a cheap set.
But it's not very big, though.
You know, like it is just those 3 things.
Yeah, that's right.
I'm not joking.
It's actually really hard to build those angles and corners.
I would just ask you all, and I mean this quite legitimately.
How would you feel about this if it wasn't an episode of Doctor
Who?
I think I would still have enjoyed it because I think what it is.
It's a super mental remake of alien.
And so you've got alien but instead of a xenomorph, you've got
nibbler. you know, and suddenly it goes from being very standard
science fiction to being something that's much more mental than
that.
And and the pregnant man who was not just there for laughs.
I thought he was a nice performance and stuff, but it was also a
character beat for Ryan as well.
And so I did think that the standing urgently in corridors that we
were talking about.
We were talking about that at length on FTE this week.
We've got a lot of it.
You know, like we've got enough time for us to sort of...
Yeah, well, we got enough time here for good actors to stand
around and do character work.
And that's what Chibnell does.
And I thought the 1st 2 episodes...
No one found the pace, no one knew tone.
No one could work from each other.
Jody was just projecting the lines because she really didn't know
nobody knew what they were doing with their parts and it was all
pitched at the same level.
It was as bland and white as the set and it's the worst thing I've
seen.
I think on Doctor Who since the 2 episodes I mentioned, which I
actually enjoyed a lot more last night.
This was an absolute abomination, and I'm really shocked that it
got through.
All my fears of chibnol were absolutely cemented with this one.
It was unwatchable.
I managed to watch it through, but it's worst piece of shit I've
ever seen on Doctor Who.
I think you're all wrong.
I loved it.
Yeah, I thought it's one of the worst pieces of television I've
seen recently.
James.
No, no, I loved it.
Yeah, yeah.
I loved it.
I mean, possibly because it's just the antithesis of what we've
been getting for the last 5 or 6 years.
It was very focussed on the characters.
It was very focussed on onstanding urgently in corridors, having
you know, conversations which would not have happened in the last
like 5 seasons because...
We love that my dinner with Andre action figure set thing
that's...
And I, I, look, I loved the fact that the alien wasn't evil.
It just was hungry.
And they said it away satisfied.
Yeah, they said it away with a well-prepared meal.
And yes, like only 2 characters die, one character, you know, yes
it was a bit obvious that she was going to die from the moment you
work out what's that she's ill.
That's signposted very early on, but she dies with some amount of
meaning.
The other character, the pretty one that we wanted to survive the
entire episode, unfortunately, dies very quickly, but he wasn't
being given very much to do.
But he was likeable.
You want to make a character.
You know, you don't want to see the character and go, oh, this is
the throwaway character.
You know, like you want to think he's going to be...
So he can die with some amount of sort of impact.
So it was a bit hackneyed.
Look, I've always believed in new stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, look, it's nothing if not predictable or straightforward or
kind of, you know, like it's not inventive dialogue by any
stretch.
But there's an attempt.
You've got 8 characters.
There's a massive attempt to give all of them except for Ronan
something to do.
And some kind of character arc.
And, you know, there's enough there for the regulars, you know, to
all get something as well. you know, and it had that RTD feel to
the future where the future is kind of silly.
Almost. almost, but then, no, my, sorry, and I'll leave it at this
but none of the casts really seem to be listening to each other or
working from each other.
They felt a bit lost.
I blame the director because I agree with you.
It had all the bones to be a really fun story, but it just doesn't
gel as a piece of theatre.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm astonished that none of the human characters
sort of, Graham, Yas, Ryan, none of them laugh at the monster the
1st time they see it.
I feel like you would, until you see it, eat the engine part, and
then you go, 0 my, 0 my god, what is this?
Like how the characters in Futurama react to Nibbler.
But again, I don't think that's the fault of the actors or even
the fault of the script.
I think that's the director.
And I didn't feel like any of the Tartar crew after that 1st
incident were actually in any real jeopardy.
Like, no.
Yeah, that's true.
This has taken off to be hypnotised or, you know, whatever, but
they were all just there, you know?
whatever.
The doctor is internally haemorrhaging.
These were major plot points that weren't addressed.
I don't think that was a major plot point.
I think that that was a way of making Jody be the last one to wake
up and giving her something to do when she was sort of running
around that was a bit more interesting.
I think that that was that served a plot function to get us into
the start of the episode.
So I wasn't surprised that that didn't actually go anywhere.
But look, that's just about all we have time for, in fact.
Well, I'm truly over time.
So, we're going to... moment, isn't it?
We're going to sign off.
We'll be back next week for next week's episode, which we won't
tell you the title of because I can't remember it and because I
don't want to spoil you.
And we are obviously in the throws of series one on Flight Through
Entirety.
So we'll be releasing our 1st episode on the finale, the big
finale this Sunday, and you'll find us at Flightthroughentirety
com at FTE podcast on Twitter and Flight Through Entirety on Apple
Podcasts.
And I guess that's it for tonight.
So thank you everyone for calling in tonight and we will catch up
with each other.
Next week.
Thank you. you, everyone.
Barbara's just so good in the space museum.
Got to say.
Come back, Anthony Stephen, all this forgiven. night.
Why is this typewriter exploded?