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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:54:31

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back for the last time to Jody Into Terror, the only Doctor Who flash cast that really doesn't mind a good goodbye.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm James I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, we're actually all here in the room together with champagne for our final episode.

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This is something that started 100s of years ago now with us all phoning one another up a night or 2 after the Doctor Who episode aired.

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And here we are, altogether, finally at last, to talk about the power of the doctor by Christopher H.

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Chibnall.

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So, um, I guess we're going to start and we're going to go round the table with the 1st question of the evening.

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Do you think this worked?

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Simon.

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Absolutely not However, that doesn't mean that I didn't have a really good time watching it.

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Yeah, okay.

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That's fair enough, Peter.

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I mean, I'm with Simon.

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It was, it was possibly the best thing that Chipmull was ever written.

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That shouldn't be confused with being actually good.

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Um, I think it was kind of just in his wheelhouse of kind of um, nostalgia and useless mythology and frenetic action and somehow it all aligned.

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It was quite enjoyable.

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Yeah, yeah.

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What about you, James?

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I think it works in spite of the script.

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Yeah, I found it a complete mess, but it was charming.

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It had some lovely old actors that we love to see wheeled out occasionally.

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Jody ain't that old.

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She is by the end of it.

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Yeah, like it was fun.

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Yeah.

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The dialogue wasn't not too much.

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Yeah.

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I'm going to disagree with that later.

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Okay.

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Todd.

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I enjoyed it, you know, for a chibnal episode, I think he did rather well, but it's all that nostalgia stuff that really, for me, seals the deal.

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Um, and um, the master stuff.

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Yeah, that's, yeah, I enjoyed it.

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But I think on repeated viewing, the plot or lack thereof may not hold up.

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What about you, Brendan?

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Yeah, I think the plot is pretty thin, but I think for that reason it does actually work.

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Sort of, all the Chekhov's guns we're given in the 1st half hour are fired by the end of it, and I think possibly my favourite one is, why is the master Rasputin is answered with the question, because he wanted to dance to rah, rah, Rasputin in a really pretty palace.

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Why not?

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You know, it's actually just fun for the sake of being fun, which can be a bit of a rarity, this era.

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Yeah, I think that's true.

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Look, I thought that flux demonstrated that Chibnall was kind of at home with sort of blaring space nonsense.

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And so Wildflux doesn't kind of hold together and doesn't really seem to kind of amount to something at the end of it.

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There is a lot of noise and colour and vision and things on the way.

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And I thought that was what this did quite well.

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And like flux, occasionally good bits.

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Yeah, I think that's true.

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I think that's true.

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I did look pretty amazing, I think.

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I mean, you know, the train scene at the beginning has every sort of sign of just being a thing to use up running time, but...

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Well, no, to create excitement.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But also to give Dan a... that have space from in the plot.

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Right, back Ace and Tegan.

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But let's talk about Ace and Tegan.

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How do we think they came off?

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I mean, Sophie can still deliver.

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Yeah, I think so too.

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Um, yeah, I, look, Sophie's the highlight for me, I think like James, that's our era, you know, so we were always going to love seeing that.

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I think Janet did perfectly well.

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Once she was actually in the room with other people.

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Like, I think her phone call at the beginning was pretty painful. was pretty painful.

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But when she's bouncing off other people, and especially that scene, she's bouncing off Pete.

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Yeah.

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You know, that was that was lovely.

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But even, even though she's not on Sophie's on the same level as Sophie, it's still funny when she's, oh, I think I handled that quite well.

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Jason described it when we were watching it as she's your matronly old Australian aunt from Brisbane.

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She's Auntie Vanessa.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Actually, my matronly old Australian aunt has just visited from Brisbane.

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Actually, that bit where she says, yes, I would like to go into the TARDIS was so old school Bolshitigan, I enjoyed that.

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Yeah, there were some nice old Tegan moments in it.

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I just think having a 70 year old climbing down a lift shaft being shot by Cyberman is so great.

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What other show is doing that?

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How far does she...

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She falls quite away.

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See, I enjoyed her performance so much and I actually thought that Tegan ultimately was better served than Ace.

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That's Ace had moments, but I really liked Tegan when she went back in with Kate and just the interaction with the master and that sort of thing.

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I really got more out of Tegan than I did.

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What I'm curious to know, though, is how a general viewer, especially a younger general viewer, would have taken it, because they are quite central to the plot, they get a lot of screen time, it's not just a few cute cameos.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I was actually, you might not think this to look at me, but I actually went and saw my personal trainer this afternoon and he is a Doctor Who fan, but only of the new series.

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Not much past Matt Smith.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it was kind of like, what on earth?

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Yeah, Matt, what are you going to make of this?

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is going to be baffling.

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We hadn't watched it when I saw him this morning.

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No, I spoke to him this afternoon and he hadn't watched it, but he said he would watch it tonight.

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He was prioritising House of the Dragon.

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Yes, exactly right.

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Prioritising working out with you.

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This personal trainer.

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He's not my personal trader, but he sees me at the gym and will say to me, when's Doctor Who coming back?

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And I told him weeks ago and he has, okay, fine, fine.

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No, really, Matt.

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It's fine.

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He does listen.

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That's why I just addressed him.

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You know, in fact, the funny thing was that all the people who watch Doctor Who, who I know watch Doctor Who at work, I went around like a good citizen and told them it was on and none of them had any idea.

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Like, I think a lot of people had checked out, I think, by this point.

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Well, it's been given no publicity here at all. true.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I really enjoyed, obviously, seeing Tegan and Ace back, but I had a strong case of the what ifs because I kept thinking that Tegan's role actually should have been Mel because Bonnie would have fixed that problem because she's a recognisable quantity to the British viewing public.

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She's a current actress.

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She would have been the kind of guest star that the series would aim to get now if she hadn't played Mel in the classic series.

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And I just think seeing her and Sophie together and paired up would have been, you know, it would have been the sequel to Dragonfire that we always knew we never wanted. it might have given Colin something to do.

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So Colin just gets to be shapeshifting, you know, guardian guy, but for me, the the doctors, the best bits with the old doctors were obviously Tegan and Pete.

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And Sophie and Silv, although I have a massive problem with one of Silv's lines of dialogue, he's in favour of blowing things up, isn't he, Brendan?

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Um, the thing is, the whole thing with him, an ace is he, he says he's not in favour of blowing things up, then tells her to go blow up beside, really, really.

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Yeah, but it ties in with what he says about, you know, I wanted to teach you.

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And that rankled me for a moment, and then I remembered, Chris Gibnall is writing this not for people who've read the new adventures because their makeup, like 2% of the audience.

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He's writing it for the people who may have just bought the season 26 box set.

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So who, what's the, like the Venn diagram's a circle?

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I mean, what's the difference?

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There's this whole thing with that where she's she's she's fallen out with him.

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Don't see that in the series.

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That is the due adventure.

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Yeah, it's a little bit like the end of what, Love and War or something only less serious.

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I thought that was good.

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And I think that means that what we didn't know that and viewer at home didn't necessarily know that either.

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And I thought that those 2 scenes were good.

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But I think he made the decision to go with Tegan and Ace.

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So you're going to have that, and unfortunately, that means that Colin's not going to have that moment.

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But he was after David Bradley.

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He was suddenly, okay, David Bradley was there and I thought, oh, okay, we're going to have that.

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I went, oh.

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And then he was the 1st one that appeared.

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So sort of like, that was his sort of, oh, wow, we're going to do that sort of moment.

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Did you know he would be in it, Tom?

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No, not at all.

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And I burst into tears.

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I just kind of thought it was, um, it was justice for them after the 50th.

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That's all I better say about that, you know?

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But how do we think it comes off?

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These quite elderly actors now.

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But I just think, well, it's Chipno is a fan of our ilk, and it's for me, and, you know, that's just the way the way it is.

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It's a celebration of the history of the show.

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It's I mean, it's not supposed to be a...

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Yeah, Russell's not going to do it.

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No.

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And Moffatt didn't do it. and he had the opportunity.

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But I think Russell and Moffatt in a sense make the right decision.

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That's true, but at least we get this.

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I think that to me.

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There's no overanalysing it.

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You take it on face value.

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It's enjoyable just to see our favourite doctors show up.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And also, having just said, Chipnell is not writing this for the people who've read the new adventures.

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That's straight out of timeworm, the final timeworm book with the doctor encountering her past her past lights.

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But I thought it was so beautifully.

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I thought it was really beautifully well done, and I can't remember who it was now, but someone on Twitter said, it's interesting how Stephen Moffat said part of the reason he didn't bring back the most of the classic doctors for Day of the Doctor was it would be undignified to ask them to chuck on their old costumes just to do a couple of lines.

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And yet Chibnall does it here.

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And it's probably the most successful part of the episode, even if Silver's got his tank top tucked into his trousers, which only happened in time and the Rani, not when he was travelling with A. Wave it your hand wave it away. wave it away.

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You know, oh, the interface is playing up.

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You look old.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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Don't say that to Brendan.

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Do, skin like an old Bible.

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Anyway.

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But I think I just think there's some really interesting things there.

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Like, I mean, obviously we see Mel at the end and, you know, well, how did she get back to earth, you know, Big Finish can go and explore that.

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And also the pairing of Ace with Graham.

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You know, I actually thought, I thought from him, 0 my goodness, he's going to go down the road of, because they're basically the same age. that Graham is interested in her and that's how it came across to me and I'm thinking, well, there's going to be lots of fan stuff about that.

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I think I said this in day of the doctor.

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That's what I always loved about the multi-doctor specials is when you get different companions paired up, different doctors, companions.

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That's the great what ifs and that was a wonderful moment to have ace with Graham.

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I think that was one of my favourite parts.

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I think the appearance of the 80s doctors would have felt would have sat better for me, had just one of the 21st century doctors also appeared in it.

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I'm reminded about being a fan just before the show came back, where I sort of suddenly realised that we've got all these ageing people that we're following, and they're just getting older and older and older, and the new series brought suddenly all the, even when we did the 96 telly movie and you had Yiji.

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So suddenly on stage, at a Panopticon with, I can't remember who he was with, it was Patricia Quinn.

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Talking about sequels to Dragonfire.

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And they just say Patricia Quinn was having a wonderful time.

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And so was he.

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But it's just that thing of, like, it was so wonderful to see this injection of, of youth.

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And that's what I, I was kind of having those feelings again when I was seeing these very old actors playing these parts supported by their now very old companions.

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I think if you'd have had Matt Smith appear even briefly, even Capaldi, even though he's not that young either.

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It just sort of felt, it would just sort of for me, had more of a connection across the series.

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This was a weird moment in time.

188
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I just don't think you're going to get it.

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Chris isn't going to do it.

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Tenant for obvious reasons isn't going to turn up earlier in the episode.

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Matt is, you know, as a career.

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So I think we're...

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No, I know they're a practical.

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I know there are a 1000000 practical reasons why that was never going to happen.

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But that's, I just couldn't help feeling that this is, this is the show that, from yesteryear that I wish was, you know, I'd rather remember it as it was rather than trying to recreate that.

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I just took all of those scenes on face value and really enjoyed them.

197
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Oh, no, I really enjoyed the scenes, but yeah.

198
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But for me, you know, chibnal scripts are often not really about anything in particular.

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And here there was some kind of unity because we actually had 4 companion farewells one after the other.

200
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And I think they got down out of the way, not just because he would have just stood around Gormlessly for 90 minutes not achieving anything, like every other episode he's in.

201
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No, no.

202
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I love Dan.

203
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He's very charming. the flux.

204
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Well, it's just, you know, in this era, the companions aren't very proactive and don't tend to solve the problem.

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They tend to just be companions and waive the doctor to press some buttons on the Tarness console and solve the problem.

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But what it did do was it gave us the feeling from the off that this was going to be an episode about goodbyes.

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And so we got Dan, and then to our surprise, we got Tegan saying goodbye to her doctor.

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We got A saying goodbye to her doctor and then finally the one that we really cared about, which was Yaz saying goodbye to her doctor.

209
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Yeah, I think we did.

210
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Just in context at this point.

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You know, it kind of mattered.

212
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They've been together for 3 seasons or whatever and, you know, I'm kind of, I wasn't expecting anything about your team, which is what Peter and I..

213
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:04.379
That was never going to happen, and I'm glad they cleared that away last episode.

214
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.740
But I thought that was a good final departure.

215
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:10.620
We'll talk about, we'll talk about it more later, but I thought it was well done.

216
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.360
I think you're right.

217
00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:18.299
I think it was good to get Dan saying goodbye early on rather than having to try and rush everything at the end.

218
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.700
Yeah, and he gets to come back in the end, like we see him again.

219
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:27.419
But again, he's like virtually about every other episode he's in, not really with the doctor or news very much.

220
00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:51.360
What I really liked about that last scene with Yaz and the doctor on the TARDIS is it consciously mirrors their scene on the beach at the end of Legend of the Sea Devils, where Yaz is clearly heartbroken and desolated to realise the doctor doesn't have the same feeling she has, despite the fact she, you know, she cares for her and likes her and admires her very deeply.

221
00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:56.759
Whereas this is them... cementing their friendship.

222
00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:10.259
And it's definitely, I think, Amanda's performance, still acknowledging that depth of feeling, but also acknowledging that the doctor's feelings for Yaz are just as important as Yaz's feelings for her.

223
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:19.740
And the thing is, with all that buildup, and my God, Yaz carrying the doctor towards the TARDIS, inverting that vision that we've had with almost all the cases.

224
00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:24.240
Yeah, right from the case of Androzani, inverting that, yeah, inverting that vision.

225
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:27.059
Right from then, I'm like, how on earth will she leave?

226
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.740
She won't leave.

227
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:32.759
And it's so simple that the doctor just says, I want to do this by myself.

228
00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:36.360
And because they care for each other so much, Yaz respects that.

229
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:38.519
And I'm like, that's actually perfect.

230
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.580
I would, if her contract's up.

231
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:42.779
That's the perfect way.

232
00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.539
I would have actually liked it to come from her as well.

233
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.840
Like, I would like some acknowledgement where she knows that the doctor she loves is not going to be here anymore.

234
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:59.399
And so she kind of agrees to go because as it is, it's pretty much like, yes, you're not contracted for next series.

235
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.500
And I don't think Russell's going to want you.

236
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.440
So you go away while I do this special effect scene.

237
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:10.980
Dude, like, don't you think it would have worked better if she'd had more of a Martha type leaving?

238
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:11.700
Yeah.

239
00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:15.180
She's admitted these feelings to the doctor that doesn't share them.

240
00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:16.920
She makes the active decision.

241
00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:19.019
I love you, but I have to look.

242
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:19.980
But I need to get on with my life.

243
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:20.400
Yeah.

244
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:24.180
But early on, when Tegan says whatever line she says, we were once you.

245
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:38.279
There is a look from her at that and I think it's adawning on her that that she's not going to be able to stay and she and it comes to it. and and hear all these people and she will be one of them sooner rather than later.

246
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.519
And I think it's flagged in that particular moment.

247
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:43.920
I do think I agree with you, Brendan.

248
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:51.000
I love that shot of her picking up the doctor and going back, very few times in this era have I ever been moved and I was moved at that.

249
00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:51.960
Yeah, same.

250
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:54.059
And like, I'm not a huge fan of Yaz.

251
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:55.740
She hasn't made that much of an impact on me.

252
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.319
And I'm not invested in your team at all.

253
00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:09.240
But those final scenes where everyone else is gathered around the console and it's Yaz who runs to get the doctor and carries her back in and then she's surrounded by her extended fam as she puts it.

254
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.160
They did bring a lump to my throat.

255
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:18.299
And I think Chibnall has a history of not landing these moments, particularly well, but I think he got most of the way there.

256
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:24.240
And I think that Mandip, in particular, did heavy lifting and brought it the rest of the way.

257
00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:25.140
Yes.

258
00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:32.880
There's also this wonderful moment when basically every big apart from one person in that console room is a woman.

259
00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:33.839
Yeah.

260
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.559
Looking down on her, that's quite...

261
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:38.640
Yeah, that's pretty amazing, isn't it?

262
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:57.839
Because I remember one of the criticisms when John Bishop was announced for flux, was a lot of people said we could have had the 1st all woman team TARDIS, you know, and you know, kind of like John Bishop's very talented and whatnot and what have you, but this is kind of just the same dynamic we've had before.

263
00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:10.200
And I think the writing of this may have been a response to that, you know, because as you know, James, it's pretty much just very much towards the end, just Vinder and Graham, who were the men there.

264
00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:12.900
Yeah, I forgot, Vinda, he had nothing to do.

265
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.940
He had a lot of exposition to deliver to that guy on the other end of the phone.

266
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.740
I'm doing this.

267
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:20.759
He looked depressive.

268
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:28.559
I think maybe we just go straight into the regeneration and then talk about the blaring space nonsense at the end.

269
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:34.799
I actually thought that that was a really strong sequence.

270
00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:40.740
I think the visual of the 2 of them sitting on top of the TARDIS eating ice cream. is really good, isn't it?

271
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:51.480
And there's a moment where Jody kind of Jody's all surface, I think, in her performance, like she is the doctor who behaves in this sort of particular way.

272
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:56.880
But there were little moments of actual Jody coming through, I think, there.

273
00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:04.859
And I was kind of thinking, why couldn't we have had more of this during the last few years because I think she's super charming.

274
00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:10.319
And she's been nothing if not, you know, an incredible kind of ambassador for the show.

275
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:21.900
And I can't forget that thing she did during lockdown, from the cupboard, where she was reassuring us all that everything would be okay, where she really properly was the doctor in an extraordinary way.

276
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:26.099
And I thought that she got to, she did a good job here.

277
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.559
And she got those great lines.

278
00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:33.000
I love Doctor Whoever I'm going to be tag your ears.

279
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:34.859
I think that's a really great final line.

280
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:36.180
Yeah, that was really good.

281
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.380
I think what sets it apart so much is it's.

282
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:44.400
It's the happiest regeneration we've had.

283
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:50.339
Um, you know, like Eccleston and Matt Smith are sort of bittersweet.

284
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:51.900
Tennant doesn't want to go.

285
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:53.519
Capaldi doesn't want to live.

286
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.039
That's so miserable.

287
00:20:56.099 --> 00:21:14.039
Whereas, whereas Jody, like the sort of only negative reaction she has is, I've got so much more to do, and this, we're having so much fun, but if it's time, it's time, and I'm going to go look at this beautiful vista, and throw my hands out, and who, you know, whoever you are or tag you're it, you know?

288
00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:16.380
And that whole thing of the blossom is blossom.

289
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.579
Some people might have criticised it for, that's just the daisiest daisy.

290
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.539
And I was one of those people, and then someone pointed out, actually, it's from a Dennis Potter play.

291
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.619
It's like one of the few times that Chip noise is actually saying, look at this piece of culture.

292
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.039
I think it's actually from a Buddhist Sutra, right?

293
00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:38.940
But I think that's lovely and I think that absolutely she gets to do that in her final scene.

294
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:39.420
Why not?

295
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.819
And we were saying earlier about the dialogue.

296
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:55.799
I think that I don't think Chibnell is a great writer of dialogue, but I think there are a handful of instances in this episode where he really delivers and there's some funny lines, especially given to Sasha.

297
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.440
And he lands through a generation.

298
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:01.200
Like it actually, it's a really good regeneration scene.

299
00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:06.059
So let's talk about Sasha and the blaring space nonsense.

300
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.599
What the hell was all that?

301
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.380
I don't quite know what the deal was.

302
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:21.359
So he was going to do a thing and there was a planet that would help him and a whole heap of things happened.

303
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:22.980
The volcanos turn to metal.

304
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:25.319
And we had to be in 1916 for some reason.

305
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.619
Well, that was the year that Rasputin died, but...

306
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:38.579
When I 1st saw the master doing that, I thought he was going to try and prevent the October Revolution, it was kind of like, go off and do something and that might have been sort of slightly interesting.

307
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.000
But it just doesn't go anywhere.

308
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.920
It's like, here are a whole lot of ideas and I smoohed them together and this is what's come out.

309
00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:57.180
And then we needed that because then he would, um, unshrink, a shard and then have like the doll thing where they're all coming out.

310
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.220
Yeah, but like what?

311
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:09.539
And that the thing is that all of that was such sort of nonsense, like, you know, and that's how she dies.

312
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:31.740
I think that's a that's a bit of a problem because Eccleston's doctor dies to save Rose, Tenant's doctor dies to save Wilf, Matt's doctor lives a long life defending this little town from repeated alien invasions and then dies of old age and, you know, finishes off the Daleks.

313
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:39.599
And Capoli dies somehow, he's saving saving the people from the Cyberman.

314
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.759
Well, I mean, he was just hugged a bit too hard.

315
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:42.599
Yeah, that's right.

316
00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:50.220
Whereas Jody, like, things are firing beams at each other or something and she just gets caught in the crossfire.

317
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.920
Yeah, there's sort of nothing to it.

318
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:57.900
And I just thought that that was, that was the sort of thing that would have had my mother sort of shaking her head.

319
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.880
You know, like I would have been enthusiastically watching it on Doctor Who, age 12 or whatever.

320
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.940
And she'd be going, what is this nonsense?

321
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.740
What are you watching?

322
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:08.880
That was my childhood.

323
00:24:09.299 --> 00:24:22.259
It is actually a very strange regeneration to come up with as the only regeneration that this showrunner is going to do, that surely he's been thinking since he was six, how he would regenerate the doctor.

324
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.859
And I actually find this about the other modern era regenerations as well.

325
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.960
I've actually been surprised by most of them.

326
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:34.440
I haven't had what I would feel is what I would define as like a logopolis moment or a case avengers idea moment.

327
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:38.640
And I know that, you know, Davis is effectively dying throughout because of the spectrum.

328
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.619
But it's done in a different way.

329
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.140
It's not this thing of, oh, I'm about to regenerate.

330
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.200
So let's all go and have a have some ice cream on the top of the tire.

331
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.259
So let's go and meet all my companions from my era before.

332
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.319
It's all a bit, it all kind of takes away from that foreboding.

333
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:53.819
I can't stop this.

334
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.220
I'm dying and away we go.

335
00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:03.960
There's already made solution there, which is she's just had her life energy stolen and then forced back into...

336
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.920
Yeah, but... reason and it's all going wrong. not lasting.

337
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:09.000
I'm about to regenerate.

338
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:10.980
Isn't that the reason that the master's going to die?

339
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:11.819
Yes, exactly.

340
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.259
What even is that?

341
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:17.519
Is it a forced regeneration if someone pushes you off a radio telescope?

342
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.039
You're not choosing it.

343
00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:21.240
Like, what is that?

344
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:25.079
And it just operates according to the rules that the plot needs it to operate.

345
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.339
Well, that's that's true.

346
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:37.079
And as you were saying, Peter, like, you know, because it was reversed, then the master seems to be dying, but she's okay until he gets his little magic Zappa thing out on the planet and...

347
00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:38.220
And also, we're not clear on top.

348
00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:39.059
It's a vape.

349
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:45.180
We're not clear as to why he needs to get the doctor's refrigerated to him.

350
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:47.039
Is it because he's run out of every generation?

351
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:48.900
which is always which used to be the thing.

352
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:50.940
But then what happened to Rasputin?

353
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:59.220
Is he just lying there kind of breathing quietly while he's in the box while Sasha doctor is over here doing this thing?

354
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.799
I have to say, I quite liked that.

355
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:07.140
I liked the fact that the master doesn't want to destroy the doctor.

356
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.279
He doesn't want to rule universe.

357
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:11.339
All he's ever wanted to be is the doctor, yes.

358
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:12.480
That is good.

359
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:15.839
And that's what the episode is kind of hinting at all throughout.

360
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:31.380
And also it made me laugh because on that note, Chris Chibnall, who just pulled out nonsense science and actually managed to be camp in this episode and was very enjoyable, did his own transformation into the thing that he hates the most.

361
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:33.660
He's finally become Pip and Jane Baker.

362
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.920
Oh, dear.

363
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:36.299
But we know about finally.

364
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:42.180
I thought when you were talking about Sashi, we were talking about how, I was going to say, he is the best thing in this.

365
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.440
Oh, yeah.

366
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:45.839
His dialogue is great too.

367
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:49.019
Oh, yes, totally one of the best things in the entire era.

368
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:50.940
Yeah, it's not that thing.

369
00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:55.980
He raids the doctor's wardrobe for the crappiest things the doctor has ever worn.

370
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.859
Like, he's got celery on his lapel.

371
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.119
It's so awesome.

372
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:08.400
And the thing is, the celery on his lapel is the Abby short replica they sold that has a pin badge on the back, which at one point you can see.

373
00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:10.380
And it's like, you know what?

374
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.599
Jamie Mag the Stone is actually an excellent director.

375
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.480
I'm sure that was caught and he went, you know what?

376
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.119
No, that's fine because you are all artifice.

377
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:19.200
Yeah, he's cosplaying.

378
00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:20.039
Dr. Dawan.

379
00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:20.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

380
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:22.980
I love the bit where he says how he's fun.

381
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:24.420
You know, I'm fun.

382
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:25.859
A different kind of fun.

383
00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:35.099
But do you remember in our SpyFall episode, we talked about the tantalising possibility that Yaz might actually end up as the companion to the master.

384
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.259
And here it came tantalisingly close.

385
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:40.559
Like, coming back to his campness.

386
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:46.079
Like, I do love those moments when, you know, within the TARDIS and he's like, I mean, I mean, her head.

387
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:48.000
I said I'm in your head, love.

388
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:55.140
Well, I love him, you know, inviting the soldiers to bunk down with him in a bunker and stuff, easy boys.

389
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.480
Like he's really funny.

390
00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:00.059
He's properly good and properly scary, I think.

391
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.839
He does mad in a way that I'm afraid John Sim just didn't.

392
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:05.819
No, but also Scary mad.

393
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.759
Yeah, and you've got to give Chibnall kudos for that.

394
00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:13.500
Chipnall writes him as fun and gives him a lot of clever lines.

395
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.000
Chimmel is clearly capable of that.

396
00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:17.640
Yeah, and it's the thing that the master always does.

397
00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:22.740
You know, will the master be more fun than the doctor and I think that that's always the kind of peril.

398
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:37.920
But, you know, like even the fact that he's not threatening them, but he's kind of saying, so you're going to feel safe with me in the building, you know, it's like not for a 2nd is he kind of stressed or anything about being locked up.

399
00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:42.240
In fact, he's making it clear that they will die because they're locking him up.

400
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:45.119
He's so good. really is fantastically great.

401
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:49.440
Which is why, as you say, Chimney was capable of doing, you know, he's got the good dialogue here.

402
00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:52.200
He can, you know, pick good actors there.

403
00:28:52.259 --> 00:29:05.579
What he's lacking is an overall ability to craft something, which puts all those things together in a way which is satisfying, because that's what for me is the problem with this.

404
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:11.819
I was engaged, which is which I wasn't for about 50% of the flux episode and I haven't been for about 50% of the episodes of this era.

405
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.059
They're just on and I watched them and then they're over.

406
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:20.220
But like the 2nd episode of Lux, for instance, I remember us all saying, it was. on the edge of my seat.

407
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.319
Now, I wasn't on the edge of my seat for this, but I was engaged.

408
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:24.359
I wasn't going, 0 my god, when will this be over?

409
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:27.839
I was really enjoying it, even though I thought it was quite rubbish.

410
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:31.980
So, but what it is, there was all these set pieces, all this stuff.

411
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:44.460
But as I keep saying, it's all sort of been thrown up in the air and it's just landed where it lands and he's gotten the sticky tape and glued bits of it together and some of it doesn't quite make sense, but it doesn't matter because we're shooting from tomorrow.

412
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:45.420
Yeah.

413
00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:53.759
But also it feels like he's doing... doing the big season finale, red generation story shtick for a lot of it.

414
00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:56.940
You know, you've got a musical number.

415
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:58.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

416
00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:03.359
You've got Daleks inside men interacting with each other.

417
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:04.200
For no apparent reason.

418
00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:07.859
Oh, the ones where they look at each other when he's doing the Raspberry thing?

419
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.059
I think that's genuinely funny.

420
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:10.319
Yeah, that's nice, mate.

421
00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:11.579
He's got a hologram doctor.

422
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:12.119
Yes.

423
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:12.839
Yeah.

424
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:14.160
Plenty of hologram doctors.

425
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:23.880
Yeah, I mean, I do think he missed a trick by not bringing the 13th doctor full circle and having a fall off that cliff at the end.

426
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.440
That would have been the woman who fell to her.

427
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:29.759
I actually expected her to come in through the roof of the train in the 1st scene.

428
00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:31.740
I thought, well, this is her last episode.

429
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:36.599
Maybe she comes in through the roof of a train again, which I guess she sort of does, but it's the cyberman.

430
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:37.319
Oh my god, yes.

431
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:37.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

432
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:38.819
No, no, she does.

433
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

434
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:45.779
But when they, but when they initially do the whole, I, I thought Jody was going to appear as a kind of fake out.

435
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.000
What do we think of the cybermasters?

436
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:51.359
Cyberthalias.

437
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:52.019
I thought they were cool.

438
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.339
Yeah, they are.

439
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:58.740
Well, I mean, they were used the way they were always going to be used, which is drop down dead and regenerate and then come back and blow people away.

440
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:08.099
And then you've got a shard and what, you know, he's been cloned and he's not angry with the master, really, and the Daleks are kind of the, I loved that line about the cloning.

441
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.259
What a throwback to dimensions in time.

442
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.359
Not before she cloned me there.

443
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.680
And what about the master's Dalek plan?

444
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.880
That was my line from the 90s.

445
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.240
He was actually in the audience.

446
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.900
Well, could, could Pete McTie have told him?

447
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:30.240
You're not going to laugh about it.

448
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:30.660
Who knows?

449
00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:36.240
I don't know why they're not called the Cyberlords, for God's sake.

450
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.400
Yes, I have a lordship doing better.

451
00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:45.180
But I actually thought when they started at the Simon started regenerating in that 1st scene, I thought, oh, I was hoping we were just going to forget this ever happened.

452
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.759
But it is used for a plot point.

453
00:31:47.819 --> 00:31:50.880
They harnessed the regeneration energy to get the doctor back.

454
00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:54.420
But I mean, they could have just done anything because we're just making rules up.

455
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:03.240
Oh, so do we think that the master taking all of that regeneration energy from the cybermen in order to do the force regeneration thing, do we think that's now cleansed to the history of the show of this phenomenon?

456
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:05.160
No, I...

457
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:06.660
We'll just never speak of it again.

458
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.259
Yes, exactly.

459
00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:08.279
That's what I was hoping.

460
00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:12.539
But like he named them cybermasters because he's...

461
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:13.079
He's the master.

462
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:14.700
Yes, it's his ego, yeah.

463
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:15.900
Yeah, he's an ecodist.

464
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.559
And speaking of, Simon, how I wished for an appearance by Tech Teune.

465
00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.960
Really?

466
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:22.559
Okay.

467
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:24.420
I'm quite glad that he...

468
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.140
Oh, and Dr. Ruth.

469
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.599
Yeah, Dr. Ruth got to appear for some reason.

470
00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:29.880
I'm quite glad that he ignored that.

471
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:30.420
Yeah.

472
00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:32.579
And then but we did have that little girl.

473
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.980
And she was she that creature?

474
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:35.640
Yeah.

475
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:37.619
Yeah, she was like...

476
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:43.380
Because then I just sort of went back and thought, is it like the power of 3 episode where he's got a little girl in that being.

477
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:44.160
Oh, yeah, he does too.

478
00:32:44.220 --> 00:32:46.440
Or the timeless child or whatever.

479
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:47.940
I don't know. kind of lost it there.

480
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:53.940
But this is the thing that I'm saying about crafting the ideas together because that's actually quite a nice idea, right?

481
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:00.299
Um, of, you know, it's this bizarre creature, but it's hiding itself, making it look like a child.

482
00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:05.460
But because that's revealed so quickly, there's just no opportunity to have absorbed any of it.

483
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.619
And so I go, oh, okay, okay, that's a thing.

484
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:08.460
And now we move on.

485
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:15.240
And so there's absolutely no suspense or drama or anything about, say, poor Jody got to explain us, tell us all about it.

486
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:16.019
It's all the explanation.

487
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.240
I was just there going, oh, please stop.

488
00:33:18.299 --> 00:33:18.599
Yeah.

489
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:33.119
The thing I didn't like about that hyper-powerful space creature or what have you is, okay, but so why isn't it the Ux or the solar tract or the timeless child or all the other hyper-pandimensional space creatures?

490
00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:34.140
We've had this era.

491
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:35.940
Why not bring one of them?

492
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:36.720
the frog back.

493
00:33:36.779 --> 00:33:38.940
Bring the frog back.

494
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:39.960
About the patting.

495
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.480
Now that would have been funny.

496
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.279
It has been back.

497
00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:47.339
Or a super intelligent shade of the colour blue.

498
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.200
Yeah, exactly. or even Benny.

499
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.900
Which Benny?

500
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.660
Actually, Todd.

501
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:09.239
I'll tell you what, something I would have absolutely loved because when Ace and Graham attacked the volcano, suddenly there's only one Dalek there to deal with, I would have loved if Ace throws out some Nitro 9, but Graham's got a backpack and, oh my god, I'm out of Nitro.

502
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:09.840
It's all right.

503
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:14.039
Ive got a little mate and Graham pulls out a potato that eats the Daleks.

504
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:15.599
Yes, and the drill.

505
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.639
At the drill.

506
00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:20.099
And Ace says, where did you get that?

507
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:21.179
Don't ask.

508
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.739
And you know what?

509
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:23.760
For once, that'd be fine.

510
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:27.840
I'm very happy with the don't ask or I'll explain later.

511
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.039
I don't mind that.

512
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:30.840
No, I don't want explanations.

513
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:37.679
We did have the master doing a sort of return, you know, tying Jody up and explaining what was going to happen to her again.

514
00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:39.179
Except I enjoyed it.

515
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:40.440
Yeah, well, he was more fun.

516
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:43.800
What was his line when he said when she said, how did you escape from Gallifrey?

517
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:44.519
And what did he say?

518
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.059
excellent time?

519
00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:46.260
Well, just learn something about it.

520
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:47.699
Excellent forward planning.

521
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.199
Yes exactly. that's great.

522
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:50.219
Perfect. all we did.

523
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:50.880
Yes exactly.

524
00:34:50.940 --> 00:35:01.440
I will also say the master's whole thing of force regenerating the doctor actually looks like what Eric Roberts is trying to do to Paul McGann in the movie.

525
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:03.420
Yes, I thought the same thing.

526
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:04.320
Yeah, yeah.

527
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.320
In which case it's like, that's great.

528
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.360
And as we've alluded to Dr. Ruth coming in and other side men all shooting through her because she's a hologram.

529
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:21.480
I just love how every appearance of Joe Martin in a scene is just, I'm breaking the show now.

530
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:22.860
Thank you very much.

531
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:29.760
Like, I'm reversing a regeneration or I'm fritzing in and out of being Jody or hello, let's take it from the top.

532
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:30.539
I'm the doctor.

533
00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:33.659
It's like, yes, you bring Joe Martin in to break the show.

534
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:35.340
She is really great.

535
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.039
And you know, Brendan, with that telemovie connection.

536
00:35:38.099 --> 00:35:43.619
Having faced Eric Roberts in those swishy robes, that's the reason that Paul McGann doesn't do robes.

537
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:49.860
I actually genuinely think that Paul McGann said, yeah, no, sod it. not putting that on.

538
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.980
And then they just they just wrote around it.

539
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:56.519
Oh, we have this in wardrobe from night to the doctor.

540
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:06.719
So let's talk about the ending, the ending, ending, and the surprise appearance of David Tennant as the doctor.

541
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.960
The Grover Cleveland of...

542
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:14.639
Well, I believe he's going to be called the 14th doctor.

543
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:15.360
Oh, yes.

544
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:16.440
So he gets numbered.

545
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:19.920
Yeah, so he's the 10th and 14th doctor.

546
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:28.920
Thank God you chose Grover and not potentially Trump. 11th and 14th Yes, we knew that he had a problem with vanity or something.

547
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:31.139
Yes, vanity issues at the time.

548
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:39.119
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there were a lot of absurd theories online in the lead up to it, that he was going to be the master or he was going to be something else.

549
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:46.440
And, like, the way that you change actors playing the doctor in this show is the doctor regenerates into another actor.

550
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:48.840
That's the whole purpose of regeneration.

551
00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:51.960
And so it was clearly just going to be that.

552
00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:59.280
And I laughed out loud, obviously, at his 1st line because it's a proper payoff, isn't it?

553
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:04.079
And, of course, we all knew he was going to go, what, what, what going into the closing?

554
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:06.840
And I like the 2nd what was about the regenerated clothes?

555
00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.360
Yeah, that's only happened once before.

556
00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:10.679
Oh, with trousers.

557
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:11.159
Well, twice.

558
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:11.940
Twice.

559
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:12.239
Really?

560
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:12.840
What was the other one?

561
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:15.960
Tom Baker's boots for generations, Peter Davidson socks.

562
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:17.099
Yeah, true.

563
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:23.219
But I mean, this is clearly there because they didn't want to have tenant running around in Jody's costume, I think.

564
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.719
Oh, well, that's in its...

565
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:26.219
Well, it could be about studio, surely?

566
00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:28.619
No, that's not what the next episode.

567
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:29.579
Maybe.

568
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:38.099
I think they will make it a plot point, but I think that just that, you know, it's a different production team, they may not have access to the costume.

569
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.539
Oh, so it would have just looked stupid.

570
00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:42.179
And it looked stupid, although it looked quite good on Sasha.

571
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.500
Yeah, but that's camp, and that was meant to be camp, and this is not meant to be camp.

572
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:48.900
Yeah, David Tenner is never knowingly camp.

573
00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:53.639
I think as well that they were shot a few months apart.

574
00:37:53.699 --> 00:38:01.019
Because Jody said when I shot my half of the regeneration, the other actor wasn't there to shoot their half.

575
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:04.559
And it's evident that he's not on the cliff.

576
00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:08.039
The rest of it's just shot against screen screen with the Tartars.

577
00:38:08.099 --> 00:38:10.139
Yeah, but they've got very good at that now.

578
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:11.099
Oh, yeah, definitely.

579
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:11.699
Oh, yeah.

580
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:12.179
Yeah.

581
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.179
It's funny for a moment because, I mean, for me, it's like that thing.

582
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.940
I mean, we know that tenant's coming back and so on like that, but I wasn't sure.

583
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:24.900
Are we actually really going to have the doctor regenerate back into David Tennant or is it going to be something an open-ended regeneration and we're not really going to know.

584
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.780
So when the camera pulls back and Jody's just regenerating.

585
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:32.099
I was wondering whether, oh, we're just going to go to the credits and it's going to be a to be continued winner.

586
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:34.199
A power boosted open-ended regeneration.

587
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:34.619
Exactly.

588
00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:45.239
But anyone who has a clue about how the show works would just never do that because the whole thrill of tuning in to a doctors.

589
00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:50.940
Well, part of the thrill of tuning into a doctor's final episode is seeing who replaces them and what they do.

590
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.559
And, you know, Russell obviously delivered in that last 20 seconds of the episode.

591
00:38:55.619 --> 00:38:57.960
Probably explains why Wargames 10 rated so poorly.

592
00:38:58.019 --> 00:39:03.480
I have to say that scene tenant back gave me a warm glow, much like Jodie had just had.

593
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:06.659
I was happy to see him back.

594
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:08.340
It was like welcoming back an old friend.

595
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:09.000
Yeah.

596
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.320
Right.

597
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:11.340
Well, I wasn't.

598
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:12.360
Oh, really?

599
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:17.099
And I just sat there going, this is like, we've been there, we've done that.

600
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:18.300
Do we really need him again?

601
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.159
That's what I felt, right?

602
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:22.800
I thought it was a jump, the shark moment perhaps, in the show.

603
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:25.739
So we're going to see what that was.

604
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:35.039
And I wasn't, you know, I haven't been a big fan of Jody and so everybody's been praising all of that stuff leading up to the regeneration.

605
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:38.820
And I quite liked it, but I just didn't have the emotional impact for me.

606
00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:42.480
And, you know, she is gone and I'm okay with that.

607
00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:47.699
I mean, we've got tenant for 3 episodes and it's going to be a special.

608
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:50.340
I don't think we'll get the chance to get tired of him.

609
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:53.460
Well, it's over 3 weeks as well.

610
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:54.659
Oh, is it?

611
00:39:54.719 --> 00:39:56.820
3 weeks in November.

612
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.340
In November, so there's nothing now until November, next year.

613
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:00.900
Can you recapture the past?

614
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:02.820
Well, I think you probably can.

615
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:20.760
I mean, he was the doctor at the point where the show was at its very most popular and the show has kind of sunk into obscurity, particularly given the different televisual landscape where there's so much competition to just broadcast television that the show has to do something big that is going to bring people back.

616
00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:24.119
David Tennant, I think, has the ability to cut through with the general public.

617
00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:24.900
Yeah, absolutely.

618
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.659
That's Russell's instincts and I think they're the right ones.

619
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:37.440
I still, I would agree with Todd, though, that I actually think that both the decision to bring Tenant back, but also the episode we've just watched is a great big jumping the shark moment.

620
00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:45.719
Now, it may pay off with Tenant, and yes, and because we already know that Shitigat was coming and he's going to be so different and so on like that.

621
00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:47.880
So maybe that's going to paper over that.

622
00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:51.360
But I had the same, as soon as I heard he was coming back.

623
00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:54.059
Well, actually, to tell you the truth, as soon as I knew Russell was coming back as well.

624
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.659
I thought the show has just jumped the shark.

625
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:59.760
Um, that's, this is, this is not good.

626
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:04.019
Yeah, because it becomes something that only a couple of people can do.

627
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:09.900
If only Russell can do it successfully, how, like what's its long-term future.

628
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:28.739
But also, I also wonder whether having a previous doctor, regardless of how popular he was, regardless of how the fact that, oh, it was the peak of the popularity of the show and the modern era, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you're still effectively belittling the era or era that have preceded them by saying, we need to get this show back on track.

629
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:29.699
You were all rubbish.

630
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.760
The only way to do that is to bring back the most popular doctor.

631
00:41:32.820 --> 00:41:36.780
It would be like Tom Baker coming back after Davidson or after Colin.

632
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:39.000
It would have been the same kind of thing.

633
00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:42.119
Do you remember verity was going to bring back pertweed?

634
00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:43.380
those rumours?

635
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.260
Oh, in the 90s when it was going to be after, yeah.

636
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:49.019
And then Jant was going to bring back Sarah Jane.

637
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:53.099
And Sidney Newman wanted to bring back Trouton after Colin Baker.

638
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:56.579
But also, you can't divorce the fiction from the real life.

639
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:59.940
Something needs to be done to restore the program's good graces.

640
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.440
And I think this might be the way to go.

641
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:02.460
I disagree with all of you.

642
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:03.900
Yeah, no, I'm with you.

643
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:08.820
I think this is a good decision And it's the sort of thing that I would expect Russell to do.

644
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:12.599
And it is just a special. like having David Tenner back for the 50th.

645
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:14.699
We have David goes back for the 60s.

646
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.679
Yeah, we've just had a multi-doctor story with old companions returning and the master and the Daleks and the sidemen.

647
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:21.119
So what are we going to do for the 60th?

648
00:42:21.179 --> 00:42:22.860
I think this is a perfectly legit...

649
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.880
But I also think that that is inward looking and a bad decision.

650
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:37.619
And as you said, at the top of this episode, that the instinct that both Russell and Moffin had about being the 20th century doctors back to not bringing them back was the right one.

651
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.539
And I think watching this episode, I still think it was the right one.

652
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:51.599
As much as I enjoyed it, but I think that the show has become even more inward looking than it ever has been at its worst moments in the past.

653
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:55.079
Yes, I would have preferred Nicola Tesla's Knights of Terror part two.

654
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:59.579
That is also terrible, but differently terrible.

655
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:05.519
This is terrible for a more fundamental reason rather than that's just an episode that's a bit bad.

656
00:43:05.579 --> 00:43:06.179
All right.

657
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:07.980
I think we're going to wind up.

658
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.719
So I do want to say one thing about the self-help group at the end.

659
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:13.500
Oh, yes.

660
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:15.780
Why couldn't they be at a pub or a restaurant?

661
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:16.139
restaurant?

662
00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:17.820
Chipper is such a robot.

663
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:22.739
He turns it into an AA meeting where having been with a doctor is a giant trauma.

664
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:23.400
Yes.

665
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:24.780
Why doesn't everyone...

666
00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:26.639
Graham invites them to his house?

667
00:43:26.699 --> 00:43:38.639
Yes, and they all have a party and they're all laughing and joking by the time this thing about the fact that being with a doctor and the new adventure started, this, the fact that it's the most traumatising experience you'll ever have, and you'll never be the same again.

668
00:43:38.699 --> 00:43:39.420
Correct.

669
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:43.019
You'll never be the same again, but for a whole lot of wonderful good rings.

670
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.000
And you go on and do wonderful things.

671
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:51.480
Even with Tegan, and even to some extent, Ace during this episode, they're presented as being somewhat broken.

672
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:58.260
We saw that and even with being Sarah back in school union, she's broken by the experience.

673
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.219
They've got to be.

674
00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:02.280
I'm solving the world's problems because of what the doctor taught me.

675
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:12.659
I got something completely different out of that scene because Ace and Tegan come into this and they are they are doing stuff and investigating stuff themselves.

676
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:25.199
And the idea that the doctor might be getting into contact gives them trepidation, but not necessarily sadness and the group atmosphere at the end, you know, they are like, like they are laughing and joking.

677
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.820
Graham's like, I've had lots of adventures.

678
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:34.079
I'm going to tell you about them and everyone starts laughing and, oh my god, the doctor's a woman and Yaz doesn't even say she's gone off to regenerate.

679
00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:38.280
She just says, she'll be fine because she's the doctor, you know.

680
00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:42.960
And I had this really horrible thought and you are all going to hate me, I promise.

681
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:55.739
And I'm setting that up because you're all going to hate me because what they need isn't a new direction in life or something like that, but they need to talk to people who just understand their experiences.

682
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.440
And that is the power of the doctor.

683
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:02.579
The power of the doctor is the friends we've made along the way.

684
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.380
Oh, no, it absolutely is that.

685
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:06.119
And I think that's absolutely what it is.

686
00:45:06.179 --> 00:45:07.500
But do it in a pub.

687
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:08.519
For God's sake.

688
00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:12.119
Not in a circle of chairs with sticky on name tags.

689
00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:13.559
No, you see, that's Graham.

690
00:45:13.619 --> 00:45:15.179
Graham's done that.

691
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:18.780
I think that's how all of Chibnall's social event.

692
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.000
That's the form they all take.

693
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.800
Besides, it's so boring.

694
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:24.059
I think actually Dan did that.

695
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.500
All right, so let's wind it up.

696
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:31.380
So I have a few things to plug out.

697
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:32.460
Shall we leave the room?

698
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:33.119
No.

699
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.460
That's the dog.

700
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:39.179
The dog. why I asked you all here.

701
00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:41.579
Excuse me.

702
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:42.840
I'm just going to turn chain.

703
00:45:42.900 --> 00:45:45.059
Just gonna laser it and turn it into steel.

704
00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:59.639
So our coverage of series, our coverage of series 7 of FDE finishes this Sunday, and we, so that's with our series 7 retrospective, which I'm currently editing.

705
00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:16.019
And then after that, during the week of the 23rd of November, we will be releasing no less than 5 episodes of FTE, including 2 episodes on the day of the doctor, which we will release one after the other on the actual anniversary itself.

706
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.280
Brendan, are you walking to work with Whittaker or have you...

707
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:21.480
I don't know, folks.

708
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:22.679
I am moving house this week.

709
00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:24.480
So who knows where I am?

710
00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:26.639
Maybe I'll I might just do it from the terrace.

711
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:28.500
Terror in the moving van.

712
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.239
The back of the movie.

713
00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:30.539
Yeah.

714
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:32.039
Talk from the terrace with tenant.

715
00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:33.480
Brilliant.

716
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:47.639
We also have maximum power back, which is halfway between its 2 episode run of interviews with Michael E. Bryant, and Pete and Si are conducting that, and it is pretty amazing, Peter.

717
00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:50.219
As opposed to the Peter and Simon...

718
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:51.539
Yeah, same side.

719
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.820
They don't they don't have time to say their full names.

720
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:57.360
Busy interviewing Michael E. Bryant.

721
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:02.880
And untitled Star Trek Project, which is, as always, a thing.

722
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.539
This plug is longer than the episode would just record.

723
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:10.139
Yeah, I know, you're sure you don't want us to leave the room. some of us have given.

724
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:20.340
I would also like to let listeners, longtime listeners know that in Moving House, I'm actually moving out of the 1st FTE studio.

725
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:20.820
Yes.

726
00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:22.559
They will be a blue plaque though.

727
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:27.960
There will be a blue park. right. making a plaque for your new FT studios door. you.

728
00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:29.639
Look, lovely on my teeth.

729
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:32.940
Yes. brush quarter.

730
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.079
Yes, I know, I know.

731
00:47:34.139 --> 00:47:35.460
All right.

732
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.940
So until, well, there isn't going to be a next time.

733
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:53.039
So I won't say until next time, but we do have plans to continue this sort of nonsense with the RTD 2 era, which will start as we've just heard in November 2023.

734
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:54.719
Do you want to tell them the name?

735
00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:56.400
No, I don't want to tell them the name.

736
00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:59.880
I have the domain, so they can't domain squat, but.

737
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.280
There could be 5 or 6 podcasts with our name out by the time we, by the time we get going.

738
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.960
So the names are close to the garden secret.

739
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:10.380
But we will tell you more about that online.

740
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:14.340
So this is the 1st podcast we've ever ended.

741
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:15.719
Yeah.

742
00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:18.420
So I'll be editing it now.

743
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:27.000
I'll be adding complete yes to the RSS feed and we look forward to seeing you again in 2023.

744
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:29.760
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

745
00:48:29.820 --> 00:48:31.440
Cheers, Jodie.

746
00:48:31.500 --> 00:48:31.800
Good night.

747
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:32.519
Goodbye.

748
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:33.840
Ta-ta.

749
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:34.619
Good night.

750
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:35.340
Until next time.