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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:53:49

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Into Terror, the only Doctor Who flash cast that really thinks you're a great listener, but is mysteriously reluctant to take things any further.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm a frilled latex neck ribbed denouement talking out of the side of my mask for this one.

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Anything to see, devil, if you're brave enough.

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That's right.

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That's what we've always said.

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Now, we have just watched Legend of the Sea Devils, which screened for the 1st time mere hours ago, by Ella Road and Chris Chibnell, it's the 2nd episode that we have experienced this year and the 2nd last episode of the Whittaker era, and therefore of this very podcast.

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So I'm going to ask a few questions around the panel and we will see what we thought of the episode.

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So let me start with this 1st question.

11
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And I will direct it to you first, Todd.

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Is this better or worse than Warriors of the Deep and why is it worse?

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It's worse than Warriors of the Deep.

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Because it doesn't start, Peter Davidson, Janet Fielding, and Mark Strickson.

15
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Yeah, yeah.

16
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We do have to wait our spoilers for Janet a bit later, I think.

17
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Spoilers.

18
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Oh, and it doesn't have the murker.

19
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Yeah, well, we don't know.

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Do we, do we have the murder?

21
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I think the Huashan is a giant...

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Maybe it's the larval stage of the murker and then it sort of sprouts legs and other legs and arms and stuff and shrinks down and things in adulthood, like all of us, really.

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What do you think, Brendan?

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Better or worse than Warriors of the Deep.

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Ah.

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I have to say worse, not that I think worries of the deep is particularly brilliant, but Warriors of the Deep does have Ingrid Pitt.

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Yeah.

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And this does not have meat and group.

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I think I think actually worry isn't deep managers to be better because it has miscasting.

30
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Whereas I don't think this does have miscasting.

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I think everyone's very well casted very well, very well acted in this.

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I would like to take, I would like to take Brendan on point for that, but I'm not going to because we're not reviewing Warriors of the D. I think, I think, and I'm doing my best Janet Fielding at the moment, banging Janet as she's now known.

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That's quite some artillery she's gone there.

34
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I actually meant that Tom Adams was Miss Cast in Warriors of the Deep Ingrid. perfect. talk about this.

35
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Oh, Todd, did you do Warriors of the Deep back in the day?

36
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Because I thought he was actually very, oh, we were talking about the base commander.

37
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I thought he was excellent.

38
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Yes. don't know.

39
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I don't know.

40
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I've always liked Warriors of the Deep, so you know.

41
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I've always liked it too.

42
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I'm going to watch it again this evening, just out of spite.

43
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Yes, that's right.

44
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I actually watched I actually watched the sea devils today just out of spice.

45
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Is that bought?

46
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It's really great.

47
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The music's awesome.

48
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Okay, can I can I throw?

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Can I throw a point of truth in?

50
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An absolute truth?

51
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I honestly, objectively, as much as I can as a Doctor Who fan, feel that it doesn't win out oversea devils, nor warriors on the cheap, because we're missing 25 minutes, and I don't, I honestly feel that this has been wedged.

52
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I think John Richards said something similar today, actually.

53
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I haven't read any reviews, you know, a friend of the podcast.

54
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It just doesn't make any sense to me.

55
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And I'm sure it's just that there's linking.

56
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I know that Doctor Who always takes leaps and bounds and, you know, as murkers do, but there's just salient points.

57
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As soon as that, as soon as our turtle dove, my fate, and I love the sea dulls actually love them, probably the most gorgeous 70s monster of all things, and Malcolm Clark can jump in and tune in there.

58
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But they just, they, they could have honestly been a Tamagotchi for this for all of the narrative purposes served.

59
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I always think that the solution to a bad episode isn't more of that episode.

60
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I just generally feel that, you know, imagine like this one only longer.

61
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Like, I'm not sure about that.

62
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I think the problem isn't that the there are things that need explaining.

63
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It's that it's a little bit difficult to care.

64
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And I think, but I think it's, you know, we've, we're on the main podcast on flights through entirety.

65
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We frequently talk about an episode being thin.

66
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And it's usually thin because something else interesting is going on.

67
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But here, nothing else interesting is going on.

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It's just thin.

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There's really kind of nothing to it.

70
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And there are things that turn up.

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And I'm all for spectacle.

72
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This is TV.

73
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And I thought that the murka looked fantastic in this story.

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But what was it for?

75
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Like, what was it for?

76
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Yeah.

77
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It didn't even like attack the ship really, you know?

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I mean, it didn't do any damage.

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One poor fisherman got eaten and that's about it.

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You know, we dragged the Tartars down.

81
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That was an interesting...

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That was an interesting cut.

83
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That was an interesting cut, jump cut to suddenly the TARDIS is in the sea double base.

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It was a bit like the net suddenly was around the sea devil at the beginning.

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There was obviously some cuts in that sequence.

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Definitely, definitely.

87
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Yeah, I wonder about that.

88
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Because there's dialogue there suggested suggesting that they followed the sea devils or they were chasing them and it's kind of like, no, no, no, the monster bit them and then suddenly they're here.

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It was very strange.

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Yeah, um, something I think really lends credence to that rumour that's going around.

91
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I've heard 13 minutes cut out of this episode.

92
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Oh, really?

93
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Yeah, is when the murker attacks.

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And we are talking about the Hua Shen as it's referred to, the giant dragon thing.

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If it's not a Merka, why is it?

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Anyway.

97
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Um, I'm sure...

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I'm sure it's Cantonese for Panto.

99
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But yeah, when the Mercer attacks, they fire cannon balls at it, it sends the cannonballs back which blow up in the sky because they hit each other and then it just goes away.

100
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Yeah, correct.

101
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I think we ever see it again and it's like, okay, I feel like there's been a big fight scene cut out here that may not have added much to the plot, but it would have fleshed out the characters.

102
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And I think part of the lack of care is because there's no time given to get to know Madam Ching, or G. Hun, or the young man who, you know, he and he and Dan have a sort of Jamie Ben kind of relationship dragging each other into trouble, which is really sweet.

103
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But I feel a lot of character stuff has been cut out at the behest of the BBC to make it fit a time slot, which is a great show.

104
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I wonder whether the lack of character stuff is a problem.

105
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I actually think the problem is that it's not about anything.

106
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It's plot but no story.

107
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And so, and maybe maybe some character speeches would have been enough to give it story, but I just think it's the kind of thing that we've seen from Tudmill before, where it's kind of like we have enough action to kind of pad out the running time, but none of it really amounts to anything.

108
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It's not a story about something.

109
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Like you couldn't, you couldn't say in a couple of sentences what this story was about, I think, in a way that you could more easily with worries of the deep.

110
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And worries in the deepest about the Cold War.

111
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What's this about?

112
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Like, stuff, you know, things that happen.

113
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I did spend 10 minutes and the 1st viewing is the best, so I want to hear from Brendan, but I did spend about 10 minutes trying to work out where they all ended up after flux.

114
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Because it's as if that part of my life has just been taken from my mind and put somewhere else, I can't remember.

115
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Yeah, no, the universe is.

116
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The universe is still in pieces around us, but we don't care about it.

117
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All right, let's go for another question.

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How do we feel the sea devils went in this revival?

119
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You've already hinted at this, Richard?

120
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Tell us how you felt they went this time?

121
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Well, what we saw of them, I very much liked, and I liked their Lego pirate ship with Christmas fairy lights on the side of it for no damn good reason.

122
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And I liked all the other stuff for no damn good reason.

123
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They've always had spurious and fragile filigree thin plots.

124
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I love the ears with the little, with all the little veilly lacy things.

125
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I thought they were gorgeous and everyone's been, I don't know. certain fans have been saying he talks out of the side of his head and all realism is gone.

126
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I thought it was superb to be able to make later.

127
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It is, um, you know, a practical effect and with some CG on the eyes and I thought it, I don't know, for me, they made it work and I just wanted to see another 15, 20 minutes of them doing things, see devilly.

128
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They were almost not in it as far as I felt.

129
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What did you think, Tom?

130
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Look, I thought the design was great.

131
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I missed their little round guns.

132
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Oh, yes.

133
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And I do, and I do think that, I do think one of the problems with the episode is the fact that Madam Cheng had no crew, and so they couldn't kill off any sort of extra crew, but they all had to be killed off by everybody who was there.

134
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So they all seem to die very quickly.

135
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Do you know what I mean?

136
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Even Dan just, you know, one big swoosh of the sword and they're all down for the count.

137
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So that, you know, in terms of making them an effective sort of, um, A monster sort of just diminished their, I don't know, danger or scariness or whatever. you know?

138
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And besides our lead, Um, uh, sea devil, the rest of them didn't seem to have any sort of, you know, they were just, they could have been anybody, you know?

139
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Do you know what I mean?

140
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You know, the shot where the sea devil does the fantastic backflip onto the deck of the ship?

141
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For some reason.

142
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And then he's on the ship and there's all these sea devils that he's explaining things to that they clearly all know.

143
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But it's an amazing shot.

144
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There's so many of them.

145
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It looks really good, I think.

146
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Brendan?

147
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I'm, I'm, I'm with Richard in that.

148
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I, I love the design of them, but I'm all, I'm also with, um, with Richard and Todd as to more, more sea devils, please.

149
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It's like, there, actually, I will start by praising something, I think Chris Chipnell does really interestingly with monsters, is that either the monster will present themselves or the doctor will comment that, The monsters are not a homogeneous thing.

150
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So for instance, Ashad is very different from the other side of that.

151
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When the doctor confronts the cheap sea devil, she says, your race is not a race of aggressors, what makes you an outlier?

152
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And so it's, and then she mentions to Yaz, um, that, you know, the, they were actually here before you.

153
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This is why it's kind of awkward.

154
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And I really, I really praise that in a story that is so compressed that there is still time to state that, you know, yes, they're related to the Solarians, but and they're different because they're different, because they're people.

155
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Um, But when it comes down to it, um, They, they, so they had this plan.

156
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They're going to flood the world.

157
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Hey, great idea.

158
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We can make the story about something if the doctor says, well, if you just wait 200 years and humans are going to do it for you.

159
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You know, give us a bit of that Malcolm Holk commentary.

160
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That humans are monsters as well.

161
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Um, it's there for the taking, you know what I mean?

162
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But aside from the fact they want to claim the planet.

163
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Well, you know, lots of alien races want to claim the planet.

164
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There's nothing particularly sea devilly about them.

165
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And that's a bit of a, that's a, that's, it's a shame.

166
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It's a shame.

167
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Yeah, I mean, there's absolutely nothing done with the fact that they were here 1st and that they think that they have the right to the planet.

168
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They're just evil.

169
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And to be fair, the original sea devils are that as well, you know, there's a 2nd of sort of nod towards the Silurians, but essentially they're just bad people who the master wants to manipulate into killing everyone.

170
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And so, you know, maybe it's, it's not quite so bad.

171
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Todd, you sounded like you had something more to say before.

172
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Um, I guess the thing is that I just found in the whole story, like, like, Madam Cheng turns up with a bit of parchment that leads her to the little stone that just happens to, you know, release the sea devil miraculously, like, but she's after this treasure.

173
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:10.980
And then this guy's supposed to be guarding it and he's got the magic, um, golden red stone thing.

174
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Surely that's the thing that imprisoned it.

175
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Why wouldn't he have it with him?

176
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you know?

177
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And then, oh, there's just like, and then they use that magic redstone to activate their destruction of the, well, changing of the world, but surely you could have done that 200 years in the past, like, I mean, maybe I'm just missing something there.

178
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Like, like there's just, it's a typical Chris Chibnil thing where, I just kind of felt like even Madam Chen's like, you know, her whole crew has been, and her boys have been kidnapped, right?

179
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So could she actually get the ship there by herself?

180
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I would have liked to have seen that to sort of invest more in her, do you know what I mean?

181
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It was all spoken about off screen.

182
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And the other character from the past, like, you know, he was working for the sea devils because his hand was being forced, but that was again all just explained.

183
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Like it's, yeah, it's my, it's my common complaints that I have with Chris Chubinall's writing and and that sort of, you know, let things down because I think there was some absolutely amazing, um, special effects or viewpoints, you know, of the whole bay and I thought Jody looked great and Yaz looked great and and and all of that and under the sea looked great.

184
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But just all these little niggly things were just like, sorry, I've got my head in my hands.

185
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You may, you may or may all disagree with me.

186
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It was sort of like, well, we're hearing about this and then you're explaining it.

187
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And then the piece of resistance was the fact that, you know, people got knocked out, Madam Chen, and the guys on the ship by the 3 exploding, um, um, grenades.

188
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It got knocked out for a convenient amount of time just so they could recover in time for the doctor, you know, to turn up.

189
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Do you know what I mean?

190
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Yeah.

191
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I'm sorry, I feel like I'm nitpicking it apart.

192
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But I am picking it apart because all these little things add up to to take away from a story that had so much potential and again, but then it just doesn't work for me.

193
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:11.340
I want to know who's there that was.

194
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.539
It wasn't one of the kids.

195
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It was a big year.

196
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.059
Yeah, no.

197
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And she had her 1st maze.

198
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It's even in the script.

199
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:25.259
It was very silly.

200
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:33.059
Because the disturbing thing is, we know that both Yaz and the doctor have multiple ear piercings.

201
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.059
And I'm just like, 0 God, hold on.

202
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:37.919
Is this a Christmas invasion situation?

203
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:44.519
It's not the doctor's extra year from when she regenerated out of Peter Cavaldi.

204
00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:45.899
Is that what you're saying?

205
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It's not Vincent's.

206
00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:47.460
I know that.

207
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I've seen that.

208
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:57.779
Because, you know, during it means during the regeneration, Jody can grow a half human, Jody, to stay with, yeah.

209
00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:58.860
Yeah, perfect.

210
00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.759
Problem solved.

211
00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:01.679
Speaking of which.

212
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:05.400
Can we talk about that relationshipism?

213
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.059
Yeah.

214
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.140
So let's do that.

215
00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:11.519
Can we put it off and can we just quickly talk about Dan?

216
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.220
and then let's talk about jazz and the doctor.

217
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.079
So I think Dan continues to do a great job.

218
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:20.819
Is that fan?

219
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.920
In his tertiary, in his tertiary position?

220
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:24.119
In his tertiary position?

221
00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:25.079
Yeah.

222
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:37.680
Yeah, I, the thing I most like is it gives, it gives Yaz a chance to be on the inside because some, a problem I always had with Graham and Ryan is, you know, they're, they're a unit because they're family.

223
00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:59.700
Which meant sort of during series 11 in particular, and most of series 12, Yaz is sort of on the outer of that, but now Yaz is the more seasoned traveller, and I just get such a, um, a brother sister vibe from her and Dan, like especially she's dressed him up completely ridiculous.

224
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.099
It's the gunfighters, isn't it?

225
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:03.539
Isn't it the gunfires?

226
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:05.880
It's the same beat, which I really adore.

227
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:07.980
So it's Stephen and Dodo.

228
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:16.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. because Stephen comes dressed out. you know, dressed up like a sort of hilarious cowboy in silk and satin and stuff.

229
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:18.539
I thought that was really fun.

230
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:24.960
I don't know why she ragged on him for the outfit later on because she put him in it, but like whatever.

231
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:45.180
Can I, I just wanted to say, like, I think, I'm at this point now where it's sort of like, I wish Ryan and Graham had left earlier to give Yaz that chance to sort of breed as a character because I actually think she does a great job in reactions, no matter what she is, the plot or the relationship.

232
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:47.880
There's a real strength there, which is really lovely.

233
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:53.220
And, but unfortunately, the flip side, of course, with Dan is that he is the 3rd peg.

234
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.980
And so he's, he's away from the doctor a lot.

235
00:18:55.980 --> 00:18:59.640
And, and I actually want more time with the doctor, but we're never really going to get that.

236
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:12.539
And I think that's one of the biggest shames with his, with his whole character in this, you know, these 7 or 8 episodes that he's been in is that, you know, because of the nature of it all, we're never really going to get that.

237
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:30.119
Look, I thought he, I thought his performance was good, but, but at times, it's so, I know this is not a criticism per se, but, it's so laid back. that I just feel like everything just sort of slows down a bit too much at times and it's sort of like, okay, come on, get on with it, you know?

238
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:35.579
Um, But I do prefer this team over the previous.

239
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:36.779
Yeah.

240
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.160
Iteration.

241
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:42.299
He does kill a bunch of people in this episode, which I thought was a bit upsetting.

242
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:51.660
That was quite astounding, really, to suddenly all the all the sea devils down in one convenient swipe.

243
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.720
It's so dumb.

244
00:19:54.779 --> 00:20:02.339
It's so dumb because the doctor, the doctor has just criticised Jihun for killing the chief sea devil.

245
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:08.940
Jehun is standing right there, and I think it would have been a lot more in character if Dan had been talking, talking, talking, talking, talking.

246
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:12.839
And Jehun just grabs the sword and says, oh, for God's sake, and he does it?

247
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:20.519
Because he's about to go sacrifice himself anyway, you know, it, uh, we would get the atonement for that.

248
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:28.619
I don't, it's either you don't have Dan do that or you don't have the doctor criticise Jehun 30 seconds earlier.

249
00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:37.680
I mean, that's a, again, there's no sort of consistent moral viewpoint, I think, in this era either, and that's part of the problem.

250
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:48.660
I thought that the, the, the joke, you know, have you met my mother and all I could think was maybe an episode 2 of flux, but I can't really remember.

251
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.200
You know, like I just didn't think it was a good save.

252
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:53.460
It wasn't that funny.

253
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:57.660
No, no, we met the mother and she seemed quite nice.

254
00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:59.099
So, you know, real?

255
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:07.440
Well, all right, let's let's finish with what do we call it?

256
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:08.579
What's their shipper name?

257
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.799
It's... men.

258
00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:12.779
No, you're team.

259
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:13.920
Oh, okay.

260
00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:15.000
Thasmin.

261
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:15.960
That's not even a word.

262
00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:19.019
So how do we...

263
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:22.680
Nathan, that's how portmanteaus work?

264
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.119
Oh, dear, I thought that were things you carried your jacket in.

265
00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:39.660
All right, so how do we feel that that went and we're going to go for opposing viewpoints starting with Brendan?

266
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.940
Right.

267
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.019
So, This is a concept that was always on a hiding to nothing.

268
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.740
Yeah.

269
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:58.140
Not because of any flaw in the concept, but because A companion is never going to have an equal romantic relationship with the doctor.

270
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:01.619
Even the relationship with the river song is mostly offscreen.

271
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.880
You know what I mean?

272
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:17.940
That being, that being said, I appreciate that, it wasn't sort of the 10th doctor who would fob off that kind of thing or the 11th doctor who would make a silly joke and scream for Rory.

273
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.259
You know, it was the 13th doctor saying, you are my friend.

274
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:24.059
I think you're excellent.

275
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:31.859
And if I were, if I were ready to pursue a relationship, I would pursue it with you, but I am not that person.

276
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.779
And I think that It's actually like a really mature way to handle that conversation.

277
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.400
But there's not really much drama in it, you know what I mean?

278
00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:48.660
That's why you had 10 and rows on opposing dimensions face up against the wall kind of thing.

279
00:22:48.720 --> 00:23:00.420
But at the same time, I appreciate that it is not dramatic and overwrought and it gives us a lovely final scene with, I think, some of the best acting from Amanda and Jody in the show.

280
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:02.339
Richard?

281
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:11.339
I agree with everything, Brendan said, but it still felt like a coin dropping into an empty beer keg.

282
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:13.619
I can still hear it rattling.

283
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:17.819
It just, it made noise, but it didn't achieve very much.

284
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:26.640
And yes, I felt that they both actress did their absolute best with something that just felt terribly thin and a little bit of sets.

285
00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:27.599
I just couldn't buy it.

286
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:37.200
And maybe it's time and maybe that's that it jolted, but it also felt a bit like what a straight boy thinks girl relationships are.

287
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.400
And that may be terribly unfair, but it just didn't hold it for me.

288
00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:56.400
Do you remember the doctor and its tenant, and I can't remember who he says it to, and he says, you could spend the rest of your life with me, but I couldn't spend it with you.

289
00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.279
It is tenant, is it?

290
00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:00.000
Yeah.

291
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:01.799
To, to, to, to...

292
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:02.460
Yeah, yeah.

293
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:03.480
I thought it was school reunion.

294
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:07.920
I think that's beautiful and I thought this was kind of a bit of a pale imitation of that.

295
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:09.420
Exactly.

296
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:15.180
And I think too, saying, uh, a relationship's going to hurt, so I don't do that.

297
00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:21.539
Like, that's, there's something more pathetic about that.

298
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:31.680
And to be fair, to be fair, that's what, yes, says without kind of, um, you know, sticking the boot in.

299
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.680
But I mean, that all relationships end.

300
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:35.759
Do you know what I mean?

301
00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:37.079
They all end.

302
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:44.700
Like, and they all end sadly, you know, it's like having a pet only not quite as good.

303
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:50.519
And, you know, like, like, um, it's, you know, they, they all end.

304
00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:59.700
Even if even a relationship that lasts your entire life ends with the death of one of you, you know, like it just seemed a bit pathetic.

305
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.380
Todd.

306
00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:06.480
Well, I think you've all touched on the whole gambit there.

307
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:29.039
I mean, I don't really care one way or the other, quite frankly, but, um, um, especially when poor Jody gets to say, I wish this could last forever or go on for whatever and you know that we've got one more adventure and I just kind of went, well, thanks, Chris, for that bit of dialogue and poor Jody having to deliver that.

308
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:30.720
Um, you know what?

309
00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:43.500
I loved my favourite moment of her in the episode was when she went to touch one of the Sea Devil's, um, devices and it came came at her with the sword and she gave it that look and went, ooh, or whatever.

310
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:44.819
I thought that was great.

311
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.319
But so I go away from the relationship.

312
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:50.279
Look, I look, look.

313
00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:55.200
I thought it, like, it is what it is and I don't hate it.

314
00:25:55.259 --> 00:25:55.980
I not in love with it.

315
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:57.779
It's going to end.

316
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:59.099
We know that.

317
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:05.400
I think, I mean, I think it is sort of queer baiting a bit, and I think it would have been probably best avoided.

318
00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:11.039
And also I just sort of think, yeah, there's this cross with the doctor all the time, like just all the time.

319
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:13.440
She's so cross with her.

320
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:16.140
I just, yeah, anyway.

321
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:16.859
Yeah.

322
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.640
Mind you, mind you, so was Donna and we love that.

323
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.880
Yeah, yeah, but Donna didn't want to get in his pants, though.

324
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:31.920
Is it because we don't want to slap Jodie Whittaker, whereas we kind of want to slap tenants doctor quite often.

325
00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:33.420
Yeah, I think that could well be it.

326
00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:46.619
I mean, something I'd like to say as well about the relationship is, from what I, from what I see online, it's resonating a lot with younger fans.

327
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:47.279
Yeah.

328
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:53.759
So maybe I just don't get why it's resonating so much.

329
00:26:53.940 --> 00:27:00.539
And I just, I just want to say, if anyone is listening and kind of going, well, this relationship really resonates with me.

330
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.380
Don't don't take don't take what I said as gospel.

331
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:12.599
That is my opinion, and if this relationship resonates with you, and especially if it helps you sort through your own feelings, then I think it's really valuable.

332
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:17.039
And I think that's what Mandat Gill has said she wants it to do on the show.

333
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:23.519
So I do hope it, I do hope it's having value for the people who are invested in it.

334
00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:25.559
That's a good sentiment.

335
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:27.599
I would agree with that, you know?

336
00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:29.759
Just, yeah.

337
00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:32.400
I just think we were talking about this today.

338
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:38.940
I mean, Star Trek blows Doctor Who out of the water when it comes for queer representation.

339
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:46.680
But nevertheless, you know, I'm aware that this relationship really does resonate.

340
00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:50.759
And I think that that's one of the reasons why it's become explicit in the show.

341
00:27:51.059 --> 00:28:00.599
All right, our last point, uh, before we wrap up and that is, uh, and spoiler horn.

342
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:04.920
I should drop in the horn from Horror Fang Rock, the folder.

343
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:08.880
Spoiler horn, we are going to talk about the trailer.

344
00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:12.599
Todd, anyone you know in the next episode?

345
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.380
There are 2 people.

346
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:23.819
And I just pray that um, Chris does them justice.

347
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:28.079
But it is exciting.

348
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.839
I'm so excited to see Joe back.

349
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.700
It is exciting.

350
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.359
I'm more excited about Tegan than I am about Ace.

351
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:47.759
I mean it's great for both of them because they're both great actresses, but I just want to see her, um, You know, if she meets the master, you know, here's one.

352
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:48.960
You're a revolting man.

353
00:28:54.539 --> 00:28:56.460
She's so good.

354
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:57.299
I can't wait.

355
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:58.859
What about you, Richard?

356
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.400
Taken with a what?

357
00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:03.539
AK 47?

358
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:04.440
No, it was bigger.

359
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:08.640
I thought, I looked at this and I thought, surely I've seen this before.

360
00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:11.220
Didn't she do that in every single story?

361
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.880
She has a big ass gun in her story. shock, doesn't she?

362
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:16.019
Like a be...

363
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:19.200
She does and she has... she knows what to do with it.

364
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:20.519
It's not just rabbits.

365
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.519
It was such, look, I don't know how it happened.

366
00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:31.799
I thought it was going to be Karen Gillan and there had been some leak that it was Karen.

367
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:34.619
I thought, okay, I'm going to see Amy Pond at the end of this and blah.

368
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:50.579
And I'm so glad I got such a shock and there's all these cute little memes of 50 something year old men of a certain persuasion standing next to a still on their television with their mouths open like a 4 year old at the 1st time at the nocturnal house.

369
00:29:50.640 --> 00:30:03.660
And I'm not saying, I'm not making any upper middle class jokes about skin tone or I think, I think, honestly, I think that, um, I think Sophie looks great for her age.

370
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:08.640
But I have to say, Janet was freaking amazing.

371
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:13.799
And the indignation in half a 2nd all as you have, you could just see the whole.

372
00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:15.660
I can't believe it, it's still happening.

373
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.700
I thought, yes.

374
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.039
I was very happy with 90 minutes of just Janet complaining with a gun.

375
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:24.539
That's all we never wanted.

376
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:26.579
That's the tinyest.

377
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.559
That's all we wanted.

378
00:30:29.220 --> 00:30:30.599
Yeah.

379
00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:32.700
She did tweet today, did you see?

380
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.579
She said, stop being bothersome.

381
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.200
I think she was doing that in town.

382
00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:40.559
She said, you're all freaking out over nothing. going to be great.

383
00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:41.579
Relax, trust me.

384
00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:47.279
So she was, she was definitely saying yes, it's going to be, Chris treated us both very well.

385
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:48.180
It's really good script.

386
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:54.839
I thought, well, look, as long as they carry on as the new 2 companions for the next doctor, they can do anything they like, I'm fine.

387
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:55.559
Yep.

388
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:57.660
And, uh, Brendan.

389
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:09.299
Yeah, okay, Richard Ray is an interesting point because Russell was planning to bring back Ace in Sarah Jane Adventures season 6.

390
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:23.039
And way back when when Tom was leaving, JNT wanted to bring back 1st Elizabeth Sladen and then Louise Jameson because he was worried about how the show would bear without Tom Baker and wanted to give it a popularity boost.

391
00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:32.039
Now, imagine if Russell has been talking to Chris and going, okay, you bring him back in your last episode, and I'll have him for a few episodes as well.

392
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:38.279
Like I'm thinking maybe not as regular as maybe as recurring, but that would that would be sensational.

393
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:39.059
I would love that.

394
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:47.220
Now, as Todd and Nathan have said, and I think I think Richard is inferred as well. you know you're all looking forward to Janet.

395
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.420
Now I'm looking forward to Janet.

396
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:49.079
Don't get me wrong.

397
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:51.779
But I started watching Doctor Who in 1988.

398
00:31:51.900 --> 00:31:58.259
So, I screamed when Sophie appeared on the screen.

399
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.400
Uh...

400
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:05.160
Yeah, I haven't seen the doctor in 30 years.

401
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:08.160
Um, no, I'm, I'm so looking forward to it.

402
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:09.960
And thing is, I'm not just looking forward to that.

403
00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:19.619
Like, I love seeing Sasha up there, even if, even if in one shot, he has not enough beard and in another shot, he has too much beard.

404
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:23.640
Um, a shard is back and I'm very happy about that.

405
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.920
Somehow, he grew up again.

406
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:27.059
He got big.

407
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:32.460
Romana was behind him. you're just torturing us now.

408
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:35.099
Lisa was picking scabs off her arms.

409
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:36.539
Yeah, somewhere.

410
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.119
It's a shame Jackie Lane's no longer with us.

411
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:40.559
All right.

412
00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:44.519
I think we're going to wind up at that point.

413
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:55.079
Um, so, uh, do anyone have any sort of urgent uh, final um, closing statements, I want to say?

414
00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:55.980
Todd?

415
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:57.660
Yes, I've got one.

416
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:04.559
You know, they credited Malcolm Hulk in the, um, the creator of the sea devils, but they spilled his name wrong.

417
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.500
So it was a nice sentiment, right?

418
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.859
But they stuffed it up and that's how I feel about this episode.

419
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:12.480
It sums up quite a whole thing.

420
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:14.579
What I've thought about this episode.

421
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.599
I can't really give this any more than 5 out of 10 at the best.

422
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.059
All right.

423
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.759
Well, that's a perfect balanced mark.

424
00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:26.880
So, what do we have to plug?

425
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:33.660
Um, Brendan, you're going to do a walk to work with Whittaker at some point quite soon.

426
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:38.579
In about 12 hours, the reason I didn't do it today is I just need to watch the episode again.

427
00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:41.279
I really, I really didn't get it.

428
00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:45.900
And I think we didn't really say enough, but I just want to give it a shout out.

429
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:55.559
I think the 3 main guest cast who play Madam Ching, Jihun, and the young man from the village whose name escapes me at the moment, that's why I need to watch it again.

430
00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:57.240
No, I think they were all really great.

431
00:33:57.299 --> 00:34:04.559
Um, and yeah, I think it's a matter of the characterisations and performances in this episode were great, but the plot not good. 6 out of 10.

432
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:05.640
Yeah.

433
00:34:05.700 --> 00:34:14.460
Um, Brendan, can you do your walk to Whittaker in a electric blue Chong Sam or whatever it is we call the frog?

434
00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.820
Because I'm giving the frogs 10 out of 10, love the frogs.

435
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:18.780
Yeah.

436
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:22.260
Oh, yeah. nice to see Jodie dressed in something else Yep.

437
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.239
Oh, yeah, Jody looks so much better.

438
00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:26.219
Yeah, yeah, and relaxed.

439
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:28.019
I think she was more comfortable in her costume.

440
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:30.480
And um, I know I was.

441
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:34.619
And honestly, it looked gorgeous, some of the best effects we've had.

442
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:41.760
Chibnall has, for whatever reason, maybe because he moves with, Well, I can't say glacial anymore, the pace they're going.

443
00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:46.860
But, um, it just, he's, he's era does look better than any other.

444
00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:48.480
Yeah.

445
00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:50.219
So, I'm grateful for that.

446
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:56.880
I thought there were some some fairly stock after effects kind of things in there from time to time.

447
00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:00.719
But a lot of it looked absolutely amazing.

448
00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:03.599
All right, so let me plug some things.

449
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:10.139
We have walk to work with Whittaker, and I will put a link in the show notes to the playlist, if not the actual thing.

450
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:12.059
It will be out tomorrow.

451
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.619
I, or perhaps already as you're listening to this.

452
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:25.440
We are currently in the middle of series 7 A of Doctor Who in Flight through Entirety.

453
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:29.099
And this Sunday we'll be doing a town called Mercy.

454
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:39.960
Um, There is also uh, Untitled Star Trek project, which is out every Friday, um, and we have some great episodes coming up there.

455
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.300
And later in the year.

456
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:56.880
We have now finished, I think, recording series B. of Blake 7 or series 2, as normal people call it, and that will be being released sometime quite soon.

457
00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:58.260
So keep an eye out for that.

458
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:07.079
Until next time, may the thing that you're trying to conceal under your clothing not be prone to glowing unexpectedly.

459
00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:10.079
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

460
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:11.460
Good night.

461
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:12.599
See you soon.

462
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:13.860
Good then.