WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:53:00 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.480 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Inter Terror. 2 00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:09.419 The only doctor who flash cast with one full-time employee and only one listener. 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:11.519 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:11.580 --> 00:00:12.419 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.380 I'm Peter. 6 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:14.699 And I'm Todd. 7 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:24.660 So we are here to discuss the 2022 New Year's Day special Eve of the Daleks by Christopher H. 8 00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:33.359 Shibnell, and I'm going to start just by going around the panel and asking people how they felt about the episode generally. 9 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:35.700 So let's start with Brendan. 10 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.460 Look, I enjoyed it. 11 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:50.640 I felt it was a nice standalone episode that still, you know, felt like it was part of the ongoing narrative, but the ongoing narrative enhanced it rather than you needed to have seen what came before. 12 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:54.000 So it was a nice little standalone entertaining special. 13 00:00:54.060 --> 00:00:56.039 Yep, I think that's fair enough. 14 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:57.000 What do you think, Ty? 15 00:00:57.119 --> 00:00:59.579 I totally agree. 7 out of 10. 16 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:04.140 Oh, so funny, Nathan. 17 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:10.379 Maybe, uh, maybe 7.5 to 8, 8, 8 out of 10. 18 00:01:10.620 --> 00:01:10.859 Okay. 19 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:14.640 You know, that you ever get enough exterminations of Jodie Whittaker, can you? 20 00:01:16.620 --> 00:01:19.920 Don't be cruel, hashtag not my doctor. 21 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:28.920 No, actually, I really, really liked it, and I thought Ainsing B was just the best thing as Sarah, she was fantastic. 22 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.739 Yeah, she was quite amazing. 23 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:32.760 What about you, Peter? 24 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:34.620 I enjoyed it. 25 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:43.079 I mean, I was a little bit disappointed when I heard that it was called Eve of the Daleks, that Chipnell didn't return to his torchwood days and make it Eve Miles of the Daleks. 26 00:01:43.140 --> 00:01:44.519 That would have been absolutely amazing. 27 00:01:46.799 --> 00:02:07.140 But it kind of, it continued, um, it continued the little jump in quality I think that we had in flux because complexity is, I don't think, Chris Chibnall's friend, and this was quite easily defined concept and easy for the viewer to grasp while not seeming simplistic in its delivery. 28 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.840 So I enjoyed it on most counts. 29 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:12.900 Yeah, I had a lot of fun. 30 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:18.960 I watched it again today and was laughing out loud from time to time and that hasn't happened for a while, I think. 31 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:23.460 Let's talk about the complexity, the premise. 32 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:33.719 What did you think of the idea of having a time loop and having to sort of work your way out of it? 33 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:34.740 What did you think, Tom? 34 00:02:35.099 --> 00:02:37.560 Well, I quite liked it. 35 00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:45.180 Like, I mean, you get to rewrite the same scenes over and over again, and make them better each time or funnier or whatever. 36 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:46.259 And I quite like that idea. 37 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:59.879 I mean, obviously there were some things that were, um, didn't quite sort of work, you know, when he, when they talked about, you know, if you die in the 1st minute, you know, you're going to be dead because it's coming back a minute earlier and then in the next loop, Sarah died within the 1st minute. 38 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:01.620 So it was sort of like, really? 39 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:08.340 And at the end, you're down to how many minutes to run, how many levels can get out, you know, with cuts and that. 40 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:21.419 But for the most part, I thought it was, you know, entertaining and fun and and I liked the variations of them having to outwit the Daleks, you know, and the Daleks had a plan and they had to come up with a plan and a counter plan and all that. 41 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:24.539 What about you, Peter? 42 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.580 You've already said something about it. 43 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.219 Yeah, I think time loops are always fun. 44 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.979 And it stands to reason that if Christopher H. 45 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:33.960 Chibnell is going to reference Christopher H. 46 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:35.639 Goodmead, it would be Meglos, of course. 47 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:47.039 I also thought I also thought it was quite quite amusing that on possibly the one occasion when the doctor exits the TARDIS and is exterminated by the Daleks. 48 00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:53.099 The TARDIS just happens to have created a time loop for her to conveniently get another head around the end. 49 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:54.960 But no, I mean it was very entertaining. 50 00:03:55.020 --> 00:03:57.599 The only thing it was missing was Beverly Crusher knocking over a glass. 51 00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:04.080 I love cause and effect. 52 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:08.400 Holy crap, it's a really, really solid episode of Star Trek. 53 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:10.139 I like it a great deal. 54 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.620 And it's real template, like, for how to do a time loop story. 55 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:19.680 And I think maybe Chris Chibnall took a few cues from it because there was pleasing variation in sort of the various loops that went on here. 56 00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:36.540 And in reference to cause and effects, the way that the characters figure out they're in a time loop, and I'm specifically thinking of Sarah and Nick, you know, because they're, they haven't experienced this kind of thing before, the way they figure out they're in a time loop is because they know what's going to happen. 57 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:43.079 But they only realise they know what's going to happen as it's happening, and that's what happens in the next gen story as well. 58 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:44.939 Like with the playing cards, for instance. 59 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:52.079 Um, So I really like that Sarah and Nick are allowed their own intelligence in the time loop. 60 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:54.600 It's not just the doctor explaining what a time loop is. 61 00:04:54.899 --> 00:04:56.339 Yeah. 62 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:00.899 And I think I think for the audience as well, things like Groundhog Day. 63 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.899 And what's that recent thing with Andy Sandberg in it that has a time loop? 64 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:11.279 But some Palm Springs, I want to say. 65 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:11.939 I have no idea. 66 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:15.000 Whatever it was, it was really good. 67 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:16.680 Yeah, yeah. 68 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.360 So it's a known quantity. 69 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:22.439 It doesn't need scaffolding with like tons of exposition. 70 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:28.860 He didn't really kind of do a very good job initially of setting that up, I have to say. 71 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:57.180 So when Sarah looks at her phone and sees that it's what, 1153 and reacts to that, we haven't had that before and we had the doctor say that the time loop was sort of 9 minutes long at the beginning, but we had to put together those 2 disparate bits of information and kind of work it out, I think maybe that could have been signalled a little bit more clearly. 72 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:00.060 But generally speaking, it was super comprehensible. 73 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:05.819 It allowed for lots of deaths and exterminations as not pointed out before. 74 00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:14.100 And, you know, I just thought it was really fun. when you realise how few time loops Doctor Who has done. 75 00:06:14.339 --> 00:06:15.899 Yeah. 76 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:17.519 I mean, I can think of neck loss. 77 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:19.920 Armageddon, in fact, Armageddon factor off the top of my head, yeah. 78 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:20.459 Yeah. 79 00:06:20.699 --> 00:06:22.860 Todd, did you want to say something? 80 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:24.959 I just thought the exterminations were fun. 81 00:06:25.019 --> 00:06:32.519 Like everybody at different points, getting to talk to the Daleks, and I actually really liked the Daleks, like all their different conversations and things. 82 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.300 I got to be witty and funny and I just like their use, really, you know? 83 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:39.540 Well, let's talk about them then. 84 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:57.360 There's been some very funny photos on Barnaby Edwards, um, uh, Twitter, of him, Nick Peg, and the other Dalek operator, like pointing to this tunnel, and it's like, we're going to go film in this bunker in our Dalek, and then taking a photo, they're all wearing the same trainers. 85 00:06:57.420 --> 00:07:00.060 Like, I think one of them said to the other two, you should get these traders. 86 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.579 They're really good for running around in a dumb way. 87 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:06.540 They've just been really, and so go follow Barnaby Edwards on Twitter if you want to check that out. 88 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:12.360 It was Barnaby Edwards in the Dalek that said, I am not Nick. 89 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:20.399 What a shame it wasn't Nick Peg, because then you could have had Nick Briggs say about the Dalek with Nick Peg. 90 00:07:20.459 --> 00:07:21.240 I am not Nick. 91 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:25.139 According to Barnaby Edwards. 92 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:41.399 Nick Peg did shout, I am not Nick, across the studio in order to activate the Dalek lights, but it actually turns out that that didn't matter because they weren't in shot in the final episode when that line of dialogue was added. 93 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:45.600 But all of that Daleks do not have managers, Daleks do not have friends. 94 00:07:45.660 --> 00:07:47.160 Daleks are never sorry. 95 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:54.240 Like it's, it's a sort of silly gag, but it, it made me laugh a lot of the time. 96 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:56.220 It kind of... 97 00:07:56.220 --> 00:07:57.480 Can I off those lines? 98 00:07:57.540 --> 00:07:59.279 once you go down that path. 99 00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:01.800 You can just have Dalek say endlessly silly things. 100 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:06.240 And so it's not exactly highbrow, but it is endlessly entertaining. 101 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:12.540 And I think one of the things that we've been missing from a lot of Chris Chibnall's work is a sense of fun and this broader sense of fun. 102 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:13.139 So, yeah. 103 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.300 Todd? 104 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:26.399 I like the way they were just shooting multiple shots and like when they were running down corridors, like, it just missed all the time, which I think is quite brilliant because that's so Doctor Who, you know? 105 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:27.839 Yeah, yeah. 106 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:31.079 Yeah, there were people complaining on Twitter that the Daleks kept missing. 107 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:32.940 And it's kind of like, have you watched the show? 108 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:34.620 Like... 109 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.440 And also, you know, they still got about a total of 35 kills across the episode. 110 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.179 That's pretty good average. 111 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:47.940 You know, I think I think possibly even resurrection of the Daleks doesn't have that body count on screen, you know? 112 00:08:48.659 --> 00:08:50.279 That's right. 113 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:55.679 They literally kill everyone except Sarah's mum. 114 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:57.840 Yeah she was good. 115 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:00.899 And it was a good use of the Daleks as well. 116 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:08.220 I know we've had them in every New Year's Day special and so it was beginning to get a little bit wearing, but the episode just wouldn't have been the same if you've had. 117 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:11.940 I don't know, the Silurians tromping about the place. 118 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:13.320 The Daleks made it fun. 119 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:14.580 Yeah, yeah, they really did. 120 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:15.840 The pterodeco. 121 00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:33.179 I think also with the Daleks, sort of, before revolution of the Daleks last year, a lot of people were saying, like, you know, resolution was great, but it's been so many years since we've had a proper Daleks turn up on mass and they're shooting people from the sky and whatnot. 122 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:34.440 And then we got that in revolution. 123 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:36.059 And it's like, well, where do you go now? 124 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:42.960 And this, for me, is one of the more successful, if you like, low key Dalek stories. 125 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:44.700 There's only 3 of them. 126 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:49.019 Um, And they're not trying to conquer the world. 127 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.720 This is a mission of revenge to take out the doctor. 128 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.659 And I actually really like, 0 my God, the Chase Mark 2. 129 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:56.039 Exactly. 130 00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:01.500 It was a more competent execution squad than those ones in the Dardus back in the days. 131 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:08.700 But even just the simplicity of that, you know, they're the Daleks and they're here to kill the doctor. 132 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.679 I think that's, you know, let's have that. 133 00:10:10.740 --> 00:10:11.279 It's awesome. 134 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:14.580 All right, let's talk about the guest stars. 135 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.820 We've alluded to some of them Peter. 136 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.580 Both fabulous, I think. 137 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:33.360 I mean, I think the episode would have fallen down a little bit if you hadn't had 2 stars who kind of had their own charm and had a chemistry with each other and I actually haven't seen Ashling B in anything else and I haven't seen a Jani Salmon. 138 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:35.580 I think it's Salmon, these surnames pronounced. 139 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.279 I haven't seen him in anything, but they were both instantly there. 140 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:42.600 And I think it just proves that good casting will go a very long way in an episode. 141 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:43.799 Yeah. 142 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:53.039 Well, I mean, it's something that has happened throughout the chibnolera, I think, where there have been excellent guest stars kind of lifting the material. 143 00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:54.899 What did you think? 144 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:55.860 Todd? 145 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.500 You've already said how much you liked her. 146 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.379 Look, I liked him a lot. 147 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:09.120 I'm not convinced that he's not a serial killer, despite his protest, otherwise, if there's just too many women's clothings with dates and names. 148 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:16.500 So I reckon we're going to get something in the final episode with some poor woman's gone missing in Europe and Sarah's picture will come up. 149 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:22.679 But no, he was really good and he was funny and clever and they were just a nice sort of balance to the regulars. 150 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:31.679 It would have been awesome if you'd had a, if you'd had a post-credits scene where poor old Sarah was down the pit and he was calling down. 151 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:34.740 It puts the lotion on itself or it gets the hose again. 152 00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:45.179 I absolutely agree with you, Todd. like, I think that is, it's to me, it's one of 2 things. 153 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:59.580 It's a breakdown in communication between the sort of scripting of the director and I feel like the script might have said, you know, he has 2 or 3 things in there and the director's like, well, they've got this big storage shed, so we need to have him have at 20 girlfriends in the last 5 years. 154 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:13.200 Yeah, except the dialogue does kind of suggest that, you know, that he's a slightly weird creeper, in a way, or that at least Sarah thinks that. 155 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:16.080 Like Sarah reacts kind of to it. 156 00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:23.460 And I really like that too, where Dan sort of calls her out for being a bit harsh and then Yaz calls her out. you know he's right here. 157 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:31.620 Like, there are people online who are saying, they're calling her out for pointing out his his creepy tendencies. 158 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.360 And the thing is, I read that scene as more. 159 00:12:33.419 --> 00:12:37.019 There's a killer outside and we'll have this discussion later. 160 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:41.279 But yeah, I also totally get that. 161 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:45.840 He's kind of pulled out on that and she's called out on that and it's not really brought up again. 162 00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:53.220 It makes me think that occasionally this era really shows that it is being written for children, so things are very much writ large. 163 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:58.379 So instead of him having 2 or 3 things, it's like, no, he's got 20 things and that's really weird. 164 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:02.399 And from an adult perspective, it's like, that's that, okay, but you can see how that's worse. 165 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:12.600 I do think there are weird problems with the premise that are not kind of deal breakers. 166 00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:28.440 Um, you know, the whole business makes no sense what this one customer who has brought a monopoly board to hear, to store this New Year's Eve and has been doing that for 3 years but has somehow managed to fill. 167 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:34.860 He must have brought a wheelbarrow with him the previous to New Year's at all doesn't make any sense at all. 168 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:39.299 But there's so much charm and so much momentum that I don't care. 169 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.279 It's sort of fridge logic, isn't it? 170 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:42.480 You sort of think about it later. 171 00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:44.100 What were you going to say Tom? 172 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:45.840 I loved a mum. 173 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:47.159 Yeah. 174 00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:48.179 Oh yes. 175 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:55.259 Is it is it Pauline McLinn, the actress who is Mrs. Doyle from Father Ted? 176 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:56.820 Yeah, yeah. 177 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.679 And she's just wonderful. 178 00:13:58.740 --> 00:13:59.820 She's so funny. 179 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:06.659 And clearly the, the, the sort of structure of the episode was also dictated by COVID in one sense. 180 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:10.740 So they managed to have an extra cast member without having her in the room with anyone. 181 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:14.879 And she is just fantastically funny. 182 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:17.580 And I love how much she loves Nick. 183 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.340 Like she adores Nick at the end. 184 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.179 It's so great. 185 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:29.639 I think it really proved Ashlingby's potentialist companion because what does companion in the modern era need, a great mom? 186 00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:31.139 Yeah. 187 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:33.000 Todd. 188 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:35.039 I thought Jeff was great too. 189 00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:37.200 Oh, wasn't he? 190 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:45.840 Do you know I didn't I didn't recognise Carl at the end and so naturally, I just thought, oh, is that Jeff, what's going on? 191 00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:47.940 And I was slightly disappointed. 192 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:55.139 And I think it is absolutely perfect that we never meet Jeff, but that he's just a presence the entire time. 193 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.480 And Jeff is a funny name as well. 194 00:14:57.539 --> 00:15:00.600 So there's a lot of comedy potential for people saying Jeff, I think. 195 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:08.220 You know, it just occurred to me as great as it was to see Carl, imagine if you'd had Richard Coyle walking along and saying... 196 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:11.039 But that's that's where I keep all my stuff. 197 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.379 So good. 198 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:17.879 Little coupling, joker. 199 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:29.879 So, uh, we've talked about everyone except the actual regulars themselves, and of course, there was a particular sort of character development that was pretty striking. 200 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:35.279 How do you think the regulars stacked up this episode, Peter? 201 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:42.240 I thought Jodie continued her improved form and the improved writing for the doctor from Flux. 202 00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:48.659 So why she, while she will never be, my favourite doctor, I thought she was perfectly good in this episode. 203 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.620 Dan still doesn't have any character, but that gets by on the performance. 204 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.679 And I did kind of like Yaz. 205 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.639 I know what you're going to reference and shall we reference it now? 206 00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:03.899 I am not, I am not on board with Thasmin. 207 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.519 I think it should be your team. 208 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.179 Oh, dear, just like Bender last season. 209 00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:17.159 All right. 210 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.519 Um, uh, Brendan. 211 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.340 Um, yeah, I thought the 3 regulars were really well used. 212 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.360 Like, Dan is just John Bishop. 213 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:36.480 As far as I'm concerned, Dan is just John B, and that's not a problem as far as I'm concerned. 214 00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:38.039 He is entertaining to watch. 215 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:50.580 The scene where he, he and Yaz talk about her feelings for the doctor, is actually the 1st time I've cried since this era, since Grace reappeared in It Takes You Away. 216 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.000 Well, I think I cried at points during the ghost monument. 217 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:58.379 Sorry, Brandon. before then. 218 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:03.000 Yeah, I, and you know what? 219 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:09.299 I put, I put that down to Mandate Gill's performance there, I think. really properly good. 220 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:30.000 Yeah, she is so, I, you know, I think, in 10 years time, she's going to sort of have the career trajectory of Google and Barca Raw, who, after Doctor Who has just gone from strength to strength and great leading roles, and I see that in Bandit's future, I think she has so much more talent than has been tapped indoctrinally. 221 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:30.299 Yeah. 222 00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:36.839 And in a way, that's kind of what I want from modern Doctor Who actors. 223 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:40.680 I actually love seeing them go on and do more and more interesting things. 224 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:49.019 And as for Jody, um, you know, Jody's always giving speeches and always giving it 110%. 225 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:57.660 But the speech she gives to how they're going to outwit the dalek and then steps up in front of everyone as everyone's exterminated in a group. 226 00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:59.099 They're not even standing in a line. 227 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.119 They standing at a Chevron. 228 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:07.680 That is one of that is going to be sort of when I think what's the iconic 13th doctor moment. going to be up there. 229 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:12.000 That's not the speech that you had to deliver about. 230 00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:15.000 We learn and we improve and we make mistakes. 231 00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:17.099 Which I just... 232 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:17.640 But then we come back. 233 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:19.440 Which I just loathed. 234 00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:21.599 That was my low point in the episode. 235 00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:25.619 And she and she had to deliver that bit of writing. 236 00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.200 I was just wishing my cheeks together going, are you kidding me? 237 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.900 And that's not her fault at all. 238 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.700 But she was good. 239 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:33.960 I enjoyed her throughout. 240 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:36.900 Like, as Peter said, much improved. 241 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.119 Like continuing on that improved level. 242 00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:39.420 Yeah. 243 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:52.140 I thought that was a difficult speech to do because, you know, it's gymnal dialogue, but she sold it really properly, I think, and that was excellent. 244 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.839 For me, Amanda, I think sold so much of her stuff really well. 245 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.839 She is very underrated and underused. 246 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.279 I mean, I don't know where this love for the doctor is going or really much come from. 247 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:07.440 We've obviously seen it a bit in flux. 248 00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:14.279 I don't, I'm not necessarily completely on board with, with it and we'll see what happens, but they've got 2 more episodes to do whatever they're going to do. 249 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:23.579 Um, Dan, I felt, um, I was actually quite annoyed with him in about the 1st 20 minutes, standing behind the doctor and Yaz. 250 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:28.799 He was making funny faces at times that I just didn't think worked. and it had very little dialogue. 251 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:36.599 But then he had just wonderful, wonderful moments, like the confrontation with the Dalek, that scene you mentioned with Yaz, which I thought was beautiful. 252 00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:42.359 When he had the, what was it, the ski and the iron, ready to attack, like defend against the garden? 253 00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:43.799 There were wonderful moments. 254 00:19:43.859 --> 00:19:56.880 But I did again feel that, you know, unfortunately for him, you know, there's 2 episodes to go and, you know, how much time has he actually spent with the doctor and how much have we really got to know him and that's not John Bishop's fault in any way, shape or form. 255 00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:04.680 But, you know, he had his moments which were great, but I thought there were other moments where he was very much of everybody much more in the background. 256 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:06.480 Yeah. 257 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.880 It is sort of weird, isn't it? 258 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:12.539 Because he gets kind of lost in the kind of noise and confusion of flux. 259 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:16.259 He gets some great moments, you know, particularly in episode two. 260 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:23.039 Um, but he never really has a conversation with the doctor in, in all of Flanx. 261 00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:30.839 And then there's this episode where he gets a kind of hero moment, but is basically in the background much of the time. 262 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:33.119 And now there's only 2 episodes to go. 263 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:37.740 It's a bit of a shame because I do think he is he's really quite charming. 264 00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:39.960 And I prefer this team. 265 00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:42.839 As the doctor and Dan, I prefer this team to the other. 266 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.660 The one we've had before with Graham and Ryan, I much prefer this team, you know? 267 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:59.640 I was going to talk a little bit about the love interest thing, which I thought was really well handled. 268 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:15.180 And there was some sort of subtext happening and all sorts of things, and the parallel between Nick and the doctor, the thing about good weirdos, and that's when it kind of hits Dan. 269 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:21.059 Like, like, yes, reacts to that line about good weirdos being keepers. 270 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:27.240 Like she reacts quite noticeably in a really good way and Dan sees that. 271 00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:34.200 And, you know, we've been noticing it for a long time. 272 00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:42.599 Remember when, um, uh, when Naja meets, uh, and asks if they're together? 273 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.519 Do you remember that? 274 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:45.660 Did I dream that? 275 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:46.140 that actually happened? 276 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:48.720 No, that's in her records in the UK because she asked for that. 277 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.039 Ryan first. 278 00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:55.920 And then she asks about the doctor and the denials even stronger and her disappointment is even stronger. 279 00:21:57.299 --> 00:22:05.880 So I was just assuming that she was bisexual from her mother's reaction and kind of known to be bisexual. 280 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:10.319 But a lot of the chat has been about this being Yaz coming out. 281 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:15.660 And I didn't think there was any of that in it. 282 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:24.960 You know, there was no kind of, I just sort of thought it was just assumed, and the big secret, which she can't even admit to herself, is that she is in love with the doctor. 283 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:31.079 And but the fact that she said she can't even admit it to herself, that line really got to me. 284 00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:34.799 I don't know if it's something from my past or whatever, but I really felt affected by that. 285 00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:44.160 Yeah, it's, it is hard to know where they can go from here because there are 2 episodes and then Jody's dead at the end of the next one. 286 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.400 So, like, what happens? 287 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:47.880 I don't know. 288 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.519 I think Salvix might come between them. 289 00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:56.039 Speaking of which, this is a spoilerific part of our episode. 290 00:22:56.099 --> 00:23:01.559 So you might want to go and listen to something else if you don't watch next time trailers. 291 00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:08.460 But how do we feel about prospects for when is this next one? 292 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:09.299 Is it at Easter? 293 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:10.500 Do we know? 294 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.420 They're just, they're just saying spring at the moment. 295 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:13.859 Spring, okay. 296 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.640 So it's called Legend of the Sea Devils. 297 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:18.539 Is that right? 298 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:19.799 Yeah. 299 00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:20.640 What do we think? 300 00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:21.299 Are you excited? 301 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.420 That's a big finish title if ever I heard one. 302 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.160 Well, I have 2 observations to make. 303 00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:38.579 I think it's endlessly entertaining that Chibnall plunders the 80s more than anything else, given that he went on TV to criticise it to some of the maker's faces. 304 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.859 And it's clear that he has taken. 305 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:50.700 The motifs for the sea devils in this coming episode from the kind of slightly samurai look of the sea devils in Warriors of the Deep. 306 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.660 And the other thing that I want to know is do sea devils have man dip gills. 307 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.359 Oh, no. 308 00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:01.140 You're just full of great tons tonight, aren't you? 309 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.299 Look, I'm going to say this. 310 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:07.740 I'm actually quite exciting. 311 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.319 We better get a murka, a baby attacking murka. 312 00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:10.980 That's what I like. 313 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:13.980 That would be fantastic. 314 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.960 You know, look, I think he's done a great job on the redesign of the Centaurans. 315 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:21.420 I thought the glimpse of that sea devil looked great as well. 316 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:29.460 I liked the side, the big cyberman heads that were not flying in whatever episode that was. 317 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:32.640 And I even like the skinny daleks. 318 00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:37.859 So I do think there's been some good design work, whether or not we get a story that's going to be any good. 319 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:44.579 Well, we've got a co-writer, so we've got A 75, 95% chance that it will be. 320 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.220 Are you excited, Brendan? 321 00:24:50.279 --> 00:25:04.200 I'm, I'm really excited and especially because the new mask for the sea devils, it looks so much like the original, but just, how could we do, how could we do that with modern technology and sculpting? 322 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:14.579 And the other thing it put me in mind of was the late 80s, early 90s, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles films, whose animatronics were cutting edge and still look amazing now. 323 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:19.680 And it's kind of like if they can get that, well, obviously they can get that level. 324 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:28.380 But if they can get that sort of realism and excitement, um, Going, I think that's going to be absolutely brilliant. 325 00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.220 And also, in common with a lot of the other Chibnol era historicals. 326 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.059 This is an era and a personality. 327 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.079 I don't know anything about. 328 00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:42.900 So I'm also excited by that as much as I'm excited by the sea devils. 329 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:50.279 And of course, Twitter's going nuts with, well, God, what's Russell T. Davey's got left to bring back Crinoids, the Candyman. 330 00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:58.440 The twins from the twin dilemma. 331 00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:00.000 Uh, Yep. 332 00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:01.619 Mr. child. 333 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:03.960 Marx and Geralds. 334 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:08.640 All right. 335 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:10.259 Well, I think we're done. 336 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.579 So does anyone have any urgent closing statements? 337 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:20.160 If the sea devils don't have those little disc guns with fiery, with the flash bits from them. 338 00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:23.460 I'm going to be deeply disappointed, but being chip no, I know that they will. 339 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.960 Yeah. 340 00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:28.740 Well, they've got string vests and even string vests on their pendant. 341 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.779 So I think the chances are good. 342 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.180 All right. 343 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.579 So let's plug a few things. 344 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.039 Brendan, do you have anything that you want to plug? 345 00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:46.920 Yep, a walk to work out with Whittaker, episode 18, is up on my YouTube channel, Brandy Bongos for this episode, Eve of the Daleks? 346 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:50.099 And the links are in the show notes. 347 00:26:51.359 --> 00:27:01.380 I'm going to plug just the Flight 3 Entirety podcasting Universe, which gets bigger every day. 348 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:09.660 So flight through entirety is on hiatus between series 6 and we'll be back later this year with our coverage of series 7. 349 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:19.019 And we also have maximum power on hiatus between series A and series B, but that would be bad. 350 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:19.859 Well done, Nathan. 351 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:20.940 I know. 352 00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:23.940 I'm folding. 353 00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:48.599 And so if you want to listen to more sort of whittering about middle brow science fiction properties, there's always untitled Star Trek project, which has just released an episode on the swarm, and you will hear at the end of that episode that we are going to do our 1st episode of Star Trek Prodigy this Friday. 354 00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:52.859 All right, thank you all for joining us. 355 00:27:52.920 --> 00:28:02.880 And all that remains is for me to say, until next time, if you're listening, Donny, I want my Sony mini disc player back. 356 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:05.940 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 357 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.019 Good night. 358 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.299 Good night. 8 out of 10. 359 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:10.740 See you soon.