WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:03:47 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.200 Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Jody and Tera, the only 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:09.720 Doctor Who flashcast with its own entry on doesthedog die.com. 3 00:00:09.779 --> 00:00:11.640 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:11.699 --> 00:00:12.779 I'm James. 5 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:15.960 I'm Peter and I'm Todd. 6 00:00:16.019 --> 00:00:21.359 So we are here to talk about the Vanquishers by Chris Chibnell 7 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:27.239 ably directed by Asia, Salim, who did Once Upon Time and Survivors 8 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:27.899 of the Flux. 9 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.640 He seems to have got the weird space reasons episodes this year. 10 00:00:32.700 --> 00:00:37.020 I'm going to go around the group and ask you some questions, but I 11 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:40.979 do want us to pour one out for the Cliffhanger resolution, which 12 00:00:40.979 --> 00:00:46.200 was the doctor walking briskly away from swarm after being 13 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:50.039 threatened by him at the end of the last episode. 14 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:54.299 So the 80s cliffhanger as well and truly back and I'm completely 15 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:55.020 here for it. 16 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:59.159 Actually, I watched it the 2nd time just now, and it said 17 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.000 previously, and then when the Cliffhanger came and then it was new 18 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.480 material, it changed to now, and I thought that was actually 19 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:07.019 pretty cool. 20 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:08.579 I was sort of super into that. 21 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.719 Anyway, it kind of, it kind of reminded me of the episode Assassin 22 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.439 in Bleak 7, where Dana teleports down and sees Servoland and says 23 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:20.219 you, and is about to kill her, but then gets distracted, and 24 00:01:20.219 --> 00:01:23.459 Servoland just turns around and walk, walk, walks out of frame, and 25 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:24.659 that's it. 26 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:26.819 So great. 27 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:33.480 In fact, that is kind of saved by swarm's line. which is she 28 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:36.540 thinks running will do some good or something like that. 29 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:39.599 He's just to, he's like Servilan. 30 00:01:39.659 --> 00:01:42.719 He's just not going to run, not in that makeup and not in those 31 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:43.739 heels. 32 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.340 And again, I just think he's so good. 33 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:48.780 All right. 34 00:01:49.019 --> 00:01:53.400 I've been talking to people about this and I just wanted to get 35 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:58.200 each of you to comment on Jody's performances, the doctor this 36 00:01:58.200 --> 00:01:58.680 week. 37 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.420 Do you want to start us off, Todd? 38 00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:03.060 Oh, thank you, Nathan. 39 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:06.060 I don't believe I'm going to say this. 40 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:09.780 You know, the whole history of her time on the show, I don't 41 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:13.740 believe she's actually saved an episode, but I believe she saved 42 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:14.520 this episode. 43 00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:17.580 I really thought she was extremely good. 44 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:22.199 And I actually enjoyed her performance and even if there were 45 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:23.159 other things I didn't enjoy. 46 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:25.080 What about you, James? 47 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:27.479 Which performance, Todd? 48 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:29.099 All 3 of her. 49 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:30.180 Yes. 50 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.439 I just think that it's the end of her time and I think when a 51 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:36.479 doctor gets towards the end of their time and they know they're 52 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.419 going. they free themselves off a bit to do things that are off 53 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:43.139 script and I think up to this season she's been on script all the 54 00:02:43.139 --> 00:02:46.500 time and and I just think in this episode she was doing little 55 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:50.099 things that she's never done before just facial expressions or 56 00:02:50.099 --> 00:02:53.520 tiny little looks and I think she's was just freer than she's ever 57 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:53.699 been. 58 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.419 I think we've made the point on the flash cast already this season 59 00:02:57.419 --> 00:03:00.419 that Jody's really been helped by being split up from the 60 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:00.900 regulars. 61 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:04.020 And so she's had different characters to interact with. 62 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.960 She's been able to throw off different reactions and it just gives 63 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:10.979 her wider character scope as an actress and more things to work 64 00:03:10.979 --> 00:03:11.340 with. 65 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.759 And it has shown this is, you know, whatever you think of the 66 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:16.860 baseline of her time on the series. 67 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:19.080 This has undoubtedly been her best series. 68 00:03:19.139 --> 00:03:19.919 Yeah. 69 00:03:19.979 --> 00:03:21.060 What about you, James? 70 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:26.759 Look, I think I think Jody's had some really, really good moments 71 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:27.479 this season. 72 00:03:28.379 --> 00:03:31.259 Especially in this episode. 73 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:36.360 That that scene with her flirting with herself is just joyful. 74 00:03:36.419 --> 00:03:42.240 Um, and and even the sort of the gurning that she, you know, some 75 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.819 some people find it quite irritating about her. 76 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:47.699 Even that seems to have become a bit more natural. 77 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:52.139 I think it's a test of any actor when you have to act against 78 00:03:52.139 --> 00:03:56.159 yourself because you have to sort of get the rhythms right. 79 00:03:56.219 --> 00:03:59.639 And I mean, it helped that she wasn't in the same frame a lot, and 80 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:01.259 so it was a lot of cutting and reversed. 81 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.240 There wasn't a lot of putting her into the same shot. 82 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:05.819 But that is a test of an actor. 83 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:08.639 Yeah, I really noticed that they kind of taken the easy way out 84 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:08.879 there. 85 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:12.599 Well, they couldn't have her in the same shot with herself because 86 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:14.520 of COVID restriction. social distancing. 87 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.480 You have to stay away from one. metres away from yourself at all 88 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:18.660 times. 89 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:24.300 I want to make special mention of her scene with the Grand Serpent 90 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:27.540 where I thought she was really quite great. 91 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.959 And that was maybe her best confrontation with a villa. 92 00:04:31.019 --> 00:04:34.560 And then, and she had a pretty good confrontation, a good socially 93 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.819 distanced confrontation with that Santara in episode two. 94 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.160 And again, I thought she was really good. 95 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:46.920 And I think it really goes to show that it's it's been dependent 96 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:47.579 on the writing. 97 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.060 I think this was always a possibility, but she was just never 98 00:04:51.060 --> 00:04:52.680 given the opportunity to do it. 99 00:04:52.740 --> 00:04:57.060 And I, you know, I really enjoyed her this week. 100 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.079 I thought she was great. 101 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:02.160 Also her against herself as time at the very end too. 102 00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:07.439 But just to pick up something that James said then is that 103 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:12.600 sometimes in the character, this particular doctor rattles off all 104 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:13.079 these things. 105 00:05:13.139 --> 00:05:17.100 In a sentence, and it just let, it comes across like she's just 106 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:19.980 reading a script, like in previous seasons, but in this episode 107 00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:22.800 when she has all those little thoughts, you know, that are all in 108 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:24.060 a sequence, she actually paused. 109 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.480 There were little pauses, and I just thought, this is the 1st time 110 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.959 you're actually doing that and I actually can see a performance 111 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:32.100 there that I'm actually enjoying. 112 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.339 There was times throughout this season, and especially this 113 00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:38.939 episode where the doctor looked like she was fed up, and I've kind 114 00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:42.180 of been missing that because I think you're right, Nathan 115 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:43.319 absolutely in the writing. 116 00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:44.579 She hasn't had much steel. 117 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.360 She's generally been quite a go along to get along character and 118 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.639 the performance has informed that that's what's there on the 119 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:51.000 page. 120 00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:53.339 But she's just been given. 121 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:57.360 She's been giving short shrift to the opponents that she's got 122 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.660 because she's just, she's a bit fed up and I'm here for that. 123 00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:05.220 Yeah, it's my favourite thing about Peter Davison's performance, as 124 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:07.920 the dog, for instance, is that he isn't the nice one. 125 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:11.939 He's the one who's basically fed up with everyone and I think that 126 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:14.160 that's a good mode for the doctor to operate in. 127 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:19.259 Let's talk about the primary antagonist who surprised us with 128 00:06:19.259 --> 00:06:23.399 their return at the end of episode five, and that's the 129 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:24.839 Santarians. 130 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:28.139 How do you think the Santarans came across this week? 131 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:29.339 Peter. 132 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:33.120 Did the Son Torans really invade Liverpool twice in 5 weeks? 133 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:34.379 Yes, apparently. 134 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:40.500 Hey, very quickly got elected head of the human resistance against 135 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:41.699 the Santarians. 136 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:43.319 So there's that. 137 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:44.579 No, she did that in 2017. 138 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.319 Maybe. 139 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:53.399 I think the Chipnall iteration of the Santarians is the best that 140 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:55.019 we've had since the classic series. 141 00:06:55.079 --> 00:07:01.259 And, uh, I mean, it's part of the reason why I did enjoy this 142 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:02.100 episode. 143 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:04.680 I enjoyed it on a very superficial level. 144 00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:08.459 Um, I thought there was far too much happening and um, the 145 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.879 explanations came thick and fast mostly for space reasons, but 146 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:15.540 having the Satarans involved didn't mean that every time it cut 147 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:18.060 back to them, I was just enjoying what was on the screen. 148 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:23.339 There's that line where one of them says, you know, there's 2 149 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:25.680 outcomes for these success or death. 150 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:31.680 And Jericho says, you know, what's the reward for success? 151 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:33.959 And it's Dan Starkey, isn't it? 152 00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:37.259 And he just says death with exactly the same intonation as he had 153 00:07:37.259 --> 00:07:39.300 in the previous line, and it's so perfect. 154 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.319 I'd be so terrified that Chibna would make the Santarans boring 155 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:44.160 and serious. 156 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:49.920 And in fact, he's made them maybe funnier than they've ever been. 157 00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:51.660 Well, that's ridiculous, isn't it? 158 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:56.519 We've had tracks and links, but made them properly funny again, and 159 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:57.540 I think they were great. 160 00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:58.860 But he's made them traditional. 161 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.680 Yeah, but hilarious. 162 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:02.160 Yeah. 163 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:02.879 Yeah. 164 00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:07.439 It's they've got the humour in them, not of them, if you're not 165 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:07.740 ever. 166 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:11.040 They're kind of an acme of what I thought Chipnall might do with 167 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.519 the entire show, which was be quite traditional, reach back into 168 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.660 the classic series and just kind of present things quite simply 169 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.540 and in a straightforward fashion. 170 00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:23.579 And he's hit on that with the Santarans. 171 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:27.899 He hasn't, he hasn't done anything that I didn't expect he would 172 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.300 but he's done what he has done quite well. 173 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.860 If that makes sense. 174 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:33.600 Yeah No I'm here for them. 175 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:34.559 What about you, Tom? 176 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:42.360 I utterly enjoyed their entire thread through out this episode. 177 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:45.539 You know, I can talk about a lot of other things happening because 178 00:08:45.539 --> 00:08:49.080 they simply needed to happen for plot points, but I really just 179 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:53.700 enjoyed every single sequence they were in, their whole, um 180 00:08:53.700 --> 00:08:57.899 tricking of the cybermen, the Daleks, you know, and and 181 00:08:57.899 --> 00:08:58.679 chocolate. 182 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:01.860 Yeah. 183 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.299 It was so great. 184 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.700 Even Jody's dialogue as well. 185 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.220 Like, there are occasional jokes that have landed this year. 186 00:09:08.340 --> 00:09:10.980 I thought last week was really funny, for instance, but the one 187 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:13.620 where the doctor comes in and says, you know, I'd like to have a 188 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:16.860 little shop like this, a little corner shop exactly like this one 189 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:19.919 except I would make a few changes and go on. 190 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:21.059 What are you talking about? 191 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:26.220 And it was just a very weird kind of fabulous. little, you know, a 192 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:26.940 little exchange. 193 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:27.840 I liked it a lot. 194 00:09:27.899 --> 00:09:30.779 That's a that's a riff on on the tenant line. 195 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:34.500 Yeah, yeah, the little shop in the in the hospital foyer. 196 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:40.620 So we've got 2 more questions that I want to deal with before we 197 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:41.220 wind up. 198 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.840 And 1st is how did we feel this episode went generally? 199 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:48.360 And this summer I might start with you, James. 200 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.019 I think it was a mess. 201 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.779 It was a real mess. 202 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:56.399 There was so much going on. 203 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:59.100 And there was... 204 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:05.100 There was very little time to comprehend things or breathe, and 205 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:10.620 there was a lot of dialogue and ADR to cover the fact that I think 206 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:11.820 that I think was heavily edited. 207 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:16.259 I think it's it was probably closer to 75 minutes and they had to 208 00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:17.279 chop it to pieces. 209 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:20.159 Um, but it was an enjoyable mess. 210 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:24.419 I enjoyed it and I joined it more rewatching it. 211 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:29.220 Last night after, after watching it at 6 AM. 212 00:10:29.700 --> 00:10:33.059 I must have been really grumpy yesterday morning because I was 213 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:35.279 super furious at it at the end of the 1st watch. 214 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:36.840 I kind of watched too. 215 00:10:36.899 --> 00:10:39.240 And I felt a bit better about it watching it tonight. 216 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:42.779 There was this whole thing where... 217 00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:46.440 I was like, well, what happened to the universe? 218 00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:54.779 And Brendan pointed out to me, um, that, you know, they, They did 219 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:57.059 actually, they did, they did wrap that up. 220 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:01.139 Um, and I missed it because it was lots of dialogue dump. 221 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:06.120 There was there were moments where they talked about um 222 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:10.799 redirecting the flux away from the earth. towards Atropos. 223 00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:12.899 So the earth... 224 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:14.879 Anyone else longer the last thing that we can kill? 225 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:24.120 And also, you know, the ood fiddling with it to make it less... less 226 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:25.320 destructive as well. 227 00:11:25.379 --> 00:11:30.539 So, I mean, that shouldn't, it should be, so not tell, but they 228 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:33.059 did actually wrap that up and sort of explain why. 229 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.500 Only the, at least not only the earth that's left, which was the 230 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:40.019 original kind of impression you got from last week. 231 00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:44.159 I think show not tell has never been a theory that Chris Chibmill 232 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:44.879 has subscribed to. 233 00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:50.460 Um, and we did in fact get a lot of that um, this week. 234 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:56.340 But, um, it's an episode that's impossible to watch on its own, I 235 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:56.580 think. 236 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.940 It was very much conclusion to the series and it wasn't its own 237 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:00.240 thing. 238 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:06.000 And so, If you enjoyed the explanations of how it wrapped up the 239 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.679 threads and thought it did a good job of that. 240 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:09.179 You probably got quite a lot from it. 241 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:10.019 I didn't. 242 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.360 I thought, like James, that it was a mess, but that's because 243 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.779 everything that had been set up, sometimes quite successfully in 244 00:12:15.779 --> 00:12:19.379 previous episodes, I thought wasn't pulled together properly or 245 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:21.600 was kind of quite glibly explained. 246 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:25.379 And so at the end, I was kind of left with that rush of, I think 247 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:28.320 we've had all of the explanations there, but did any of them land 248 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:28.980 for me? 249 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:29.460 I not sure. 250 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:30.899 What about you, Tom? 251 00:12:31.259 --> 00:12:37.259 I kind of think that, uh, it is all explained, but it's all, it's 252 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:40.679 all joined the dots, and it's all like, well, we needed Vintage to 253 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:44.340 go into the passenger and we needed Diane to have an adventure in 254 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:46.860 there and work it all out so she could explain it all in like 5 255 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:47.519 seconds. 256 00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:51.419 And, you know, we needed the 3 doctors to be in the convenient 257 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:52.320 places for everybody. 258 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.440 And we needed Bill to be the 3rd wheel in that plot so she could 259 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:59.879 do whatever she did to the Santara and ship that, but, but not be 260 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:00.960 in really any real danger. 261 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:06.840 You know, we needed suddenly at the end, um, azure and swarm to 262 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:11.159 sort of be there with time and then just be wrapped up, you know 263 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.399 it was all, all those things were all happening, right? 264 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:16.320 And they all had explanations. 265 00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:20.879 But a lot of them were very, very quick and short, maybe because 266 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:23.340 of, you know, it's 6 episodes and not seven. 267 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:24.240 I mean I don't know. 268 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:27.960 But there were explanations, but at times I did feel like I'm just 269 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:31.679 getting talked to, you know, by when I was not in the Santaran 270 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:35.639 plot, you know, and I mean, poor Kate Stewart had very little to 271 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:35.940 do. 272 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:37.679 And it was great to see her. 273 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.799 And, and, you know, she said you'd love to, she loved the doctor 274 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:41.879 and all that sort of thing. 275 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:45.419 But other than that, what did she really bring to the table, except 276 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:48.480 you know, a bit of a conclusion from last week and getting wrapped 277 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.500 into the, what's his name, Serpent, um, The Grand Serpent's 278 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:52.620 thing. 279 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.159 I mean, I'm sounding like I'm really down on that, but for the 280 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.100 most part, I was quite pleased that I actually got explanations 281 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.340 and things were there generally, even if they were brief, because 282 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:06.120 I thought there'd be a lot more hanging and I'd be a lot more 283 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:10.139 angry about things, but I was kind of going, okay, that's fine. 284 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.139 Some of the dialogue is still terrible. 285 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.240 Yeah, I'm saying it's not. 286 00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:20.759 We're trained to, you know, like respond to all these different 287 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.940 situations. the last one we do is passenger form. 288 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:24.659 Wow. 289 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:29.519 That's because we don't have 10 minutes to go through it. 290 00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.200 We've got to explain it in 20 seconds. 291 00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:32.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 292 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.379 It didn't have to be said. 293 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:40.259 It seems unforgivable that we got to that point given that pretty 294 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:43.320 much nothing happened in episode five. 295 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:47.340 So we were spinning our wheels and having things explained to us 296 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:52.320 in episode five, but almost no one's plot got advanced beyond we 297 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.139 all met Joseph Williamson in the tunnels at the end. 298 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.080 So like, I think that's a problem. 299 00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:02.879 And so let's talk about the flux as a whole. 300 00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:09.000 How do you feel about this season generally, Todd? 301 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:10.799 Now we're here. 302 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:15.600 I really like this season a lot more. than the previous two? 303 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:16.200 Yep. 304 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:21.600 I think a basis for Jody, I really liked Jericho a lot. 305 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:26.460 I was a bit miffed that he got killed and other people just had to 306 00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:29.340 survive because they were plot devices. 307 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.299 Um, but generally, It's a season I do want to go back and rewatch 308 00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:37.320 because I think looking at the, um, you know, the episodes that 309 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.679 sort of are the space reason episodes, I'm just interested to see 310 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.039 what's in that and and that sort of thing. 311 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.559 I mean, but I do think it was wrapped up far too quickly. 312 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:50.639 I mean, azure and swarm after the 1st 15 minutes had nothing much 313 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.440 to do until right till the end, really. 314 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.899 Like, you know, and I thought they were going to be much more 315 00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:55.740 prevalent. 316 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:57.779 But it's a triumph for Jody, I think. 317 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.059 James? 318 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.600 Overall, I've really enjoyed this season. 319 00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:08.940 Um, Most of it actually has helped together quite well. 320 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:14.399 Um, and you know, we're, we're, we're, you're often quite down on 321 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:16.740 um, treadmills writing. 322 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.899 But, you know, and not just us, fandom, generally. 323 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.360 Discerning viewers. 324 00:16:24.419 --> 00:16:27.000 You know, same people to know. 325 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:33.120 But I actually think he constructed something quite enjoyable. 326 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.320 Um, he's not great with dialogue, but I think I think overall the 327 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.179 season actually held together quite well. 328 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:44.580 For something that is almost the length of a, um, a Sylvester 329 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:45.000 McCoy. 330 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:46.799 Season. 331 00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:56.460 Um, Over 6 episodes um, It it actually. was quite full of, uh 332 00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:02.399 entertaining moments, um, and some really good concepts, not 333 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:06.059 necessarily, you know, the best, like realised the best way 334 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:11.400 possible, but, I, I enjoyed it, and the cast was great. 335 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.480 I think Broadchurch was successful not because of the quality of 336 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.259 gymnal scripts, but because of the quality of the cast and the 337 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:20.700 quality of the production. 338 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:26.519 And I think here, both the cast and the production were really 339 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:26.940 great. 340 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:28.799 I thought there were 2 good directors. 341 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:31.079 I thought the thing looked amazing. 342 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:34.559 I was watching, you know, it's COVID, so we're going to have lots 343 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.279 of cartoon special effects at the end, and because this is a giant 344 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:39.960 epic about space reasons. 345 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:45.059 And those special effects at the end were really astonishingly 346 00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:45.420 good. 347 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.539 And some of those strange environments were great. 348 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.839 So, you know, I think that both of those things it really 349 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:53.220 definitely had going for it. 350 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.759 And I wonder if the show has ever looked quite as good as this. 351 00:17:57.059 --> 00:18:00.779 Yeah, I need disappointing special effect in the entire season, I 352 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:04.380 think, was there was the time special effect. 353 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:10.019 Like, which just looked like it was a placeholder for what they 354 00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:11.160 were actually going to put in there. 355 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.720 Yeah. 356 00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:13.619 What about you, Peter? 357 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:17.039 I thought it was a pretty unremarkable set of episodes. 358 00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:18.299 Pretty standard. 359 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.420 And that's not a, that's not a terrible thing, actually, because 360 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:23.460 that might have been more than I hoped for. 361 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.599 But what it did have was some big ideas, which I think. 362 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.519 Generally worked, even if they didn't come off quite well in the 363 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:36.960 end, I did enjoy kind of the ideas behind azure and swarm and 364 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.740 division. 365 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:42.839 And I think there was one good episode and one excellent episode 366 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:47.640 uh, those being, um, Village of the Angels and uh, War of the 367 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.180 Santarans, being the excellent episode, and they kind of piqued my 368 00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:55.319 interest and felt more, more like traditional Doctor Who, and the 369 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.680 Doctor Who, that I've always loved, maybe more than anything in 370 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:00.720 the last 2 seasons of Chipmall. 371 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:03.779 So I think that overall that's a plus and a score. 372 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.980 I agree with you, Peter, on that on that level. 373 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.220 I still don't care about the time as children or really the 374 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:12.119 division very much. 375 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:13.980 I mean, I just don't. 376 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.799 And, you know, it's happened. 377 00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:20.339 The time thing happened, the time it all happened and it's all 378 00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:24.059 resolved, but I'm not, make her angry about it or anything like 379 00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:25.380 that, like I've been in the past. 380 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.420 So, You know? 381 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.599 Yeah, that's a lot of things, but it wasn't a lot of things to 382 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.339 make you roll your eyes, was there, Todd? 383 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:37.319 No, and I actually thought, is it a jur's speech to the doctor 384 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.700 when she was absolutely mesmerising, it was one of the highlights 385 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:43.740 of the episode, I thought her big info jump. 386 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:46.619 Do you know what I thought the problem with that was? 387 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.579 Because that was like uh, your evil is my good speech, you know, it 388 00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:54.660 was the idea that they just had incommensurate ideas of what was 389 00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.279 worth preserving. 390 00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:57.599 They're differently moraled. 391 00:19:57.660 --> 00:19:58.619 Yeah, that's right. 392 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:02.220 And she says, you know, well, that's your faith, and I have my 393 00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:05.099 faith, and the difference is that my faith is true. 394 00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:09.720 And in a way, like Chipnill's a bit kind of pessimistic. 395 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:14.160 There's lots of dismal post-apocalypses and the doctor walks past 396 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:19.680 terrible things that are happening to people and, you know, um, And 397 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.700 I liked that. 398 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.339 But what I thought was telling was that Chibnell didn't have a 399 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:24.240 good answer to it. 400 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:29.940 He couldn't put something in the doctor's dialogue that answered 401 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:31.680 what the point of her fight was. 402 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.500 And it was kind of like the universe is the way it is for a reason 403 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:38.460 and you just sort of think, oh, well, that's your sort of dismal 404 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:39.839 centurism again. 405 00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:41.819 You know, like, what do you stand for? 406 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.039 And I think that's disappointing. 407 00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:47.519 Nathan, what do you think of a well prepared meal? 408 00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:48.660 Yeah, that would have been good. 409 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:52.500 But Nathan, what do you think of her just throwing the watch down 410 00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:55.200 into the heart of the Tartars at the end that it's just sitting 411 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.579 there so we don't really get any answers? 412 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.240 I think she angstered more about that watch than she did about all 413 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.599 those countless planets and people being wiped out and 7 billion 414 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.500 dogs being killed. 415 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:06.779 Which was done off screen. 416 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:07.980 Yeah that was terrible. 417 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:09.960 Yeah, that was that was pretty bad. 418 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:10.920 I wanted to see that. 419 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:12.900 Do you really want to see them? 420 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.380 No, but, you know, show something. 421 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:18.839 Why did they all have to get in there? 422 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:21.240 7000000 dogs die onscreen.com. 423 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:24.720 But I mean, if you can operate all of those ships by remote 424 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.619 control from one ship, like it just seems to me, like maybe the 425 00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:30.420 other 7000000000 dogs could have stayed home. 426 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.740 I, you know, anyway. 427 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.539 In their kennels. 428 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.519 Yeah, at least we're talking about this will be pulling it to 429 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:36.240 shreds. 430 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.359 Only one dog costume. 431 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:40.799 Yeah, that'd be worked. 432 00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:42.599 And it is a good dog costume. 433 00:21:42.660 --> 00:21:43.440 Yeah. 434 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:44.339 Yeah. 435 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.740 So here is what I think the problem is with it. 436 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.640 And that is that a lot of things happen, but they don't seem to 437 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:54.720 matter to anyone. 438 00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:58.799 And so this is plot but not story. 439 00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:03.180 And so there are a lot of space things that happen in an enjoyable 440 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.539 way and he's decided that that's what he's going to do. 441 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:10.440 It's not going to be, you know, plastic daffodils or burping 442 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.160 garbage bins or, I don't know why I'm going to autons, but 443 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.819 whatever, is not going to be grounded. going to be very sort of 444 00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:20.460 space things and that's fine. 445 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.480 But what I missed was that no characters had an arc. 446 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:30.839 And the 2 closest things to an arc, where the doctor starts 447 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:37.380 wanting to know her past and is dragging, you know, Yaz along for 448 00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:38.759 the ride without telling her. 449 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.920 And then at the end, she either does or doesn't want to know, and 450 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.420 we don't know which, because she loses the watch, but then says, oh 451 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:50.940 but keep it in case I want it, so we don't know. 452 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.759 So she doesn't go from anything to anything. 453 00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:58.140 And even if she doesn't want those memories now, we don't know 454 00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:58.740 why. 455 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.339 And it's not even hinted at, and I think that's a problem. 456 00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:06.299 The other arc, I think, is Dan and Diane. 457 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.839 And again, I don't know why Diane didn't want to go with him 458 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.259 except that he needed to be free to be in the specials. 459 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.299 So he could travel with the doctor. 460 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.819 And I think, I think that's disappointing. 461 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:23.460 I mean, it would have been easy to have shown the effect that 462 00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:26.579 being trapped in the passenger hat on Diane or that she was scared 463 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:30.359 of Dan because dreadful things happened when she met him or 464 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:30.660 whatever. 465 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:32.279 She's just broken. 466 00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:33.779 Yeah, we didn't get anything. 467 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:35.940 And I think that's the problem. 468 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.680 It's not like it was reaching for that. 469 00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:38.460 No. 470 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:42.480 It's like, it just wasn't, it wasn't competent enough to make, to 471 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.019 make that point. 472 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:45.960 Well, I just don't think he wanted to make that and I think that's 473 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:46.259 a problem. 474 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:50.940 And I also think too, so without a big revelation, the reason we 475 00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:55.319 were waiting for a big revelation about Bell and Vinda was, why 476 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:56.640 else are they here? 477 00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:01.380 And it just turned out, well, they just wandered around missing 478 00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:04.500 one another and then met by accident in the TARDIS. 479 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:07.859 You know, like these things, you know, some of these things are 480 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:10.799 just due to COVID and stuff, you know, you need an expanded 481 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.000 regular cast and people doing things on their own and whatever, but 482 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.539 I just thought that was all a bit of a mess. 483 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.559 So I can easily see myself rewatching the flux, like bingeing it 484 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.740 and having a reasonably good time, but I do think there's a 485 00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:27.180 problem with the absence of people. 486 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.359 It's what my mother always suspected Doctor Who was like. 487 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:33.960 It was just full of space people doing space things for space 488 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:34.619 reasons. 489 00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:38.880 And Nathan, I do agree with you, all those observations, um 490 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:39.359 totally. 491 00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:41.700 And, you know, it's like Paul Jericho's death. 492 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:43.680 Yaz had one a 12nd reaction. 493 00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:44.460 Dan had nothing. 494 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.000 We moved on like Adric with Nissa and Tegan, you know, let's go 495 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.700 and have a, let's go back space adventuring, you know? 496 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:56.039 And it's all those little tiny non-character moments or non 497 00:24:55.140 --> 00:25:00.480 character arcs that do, in the cold, hard light of day, leave you 498 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:06.180 not liking things as much or reflecting on it and going, oh, I 499 00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:10.079 just wish there was some more purpose to it and despite all the 500 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.200 positives that is in this series. 501 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.680 Well, it's the craft of, it's the craft of writing, isn't it? 502 00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:18.480 It's not about plot and story. 503 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.359 It's about the impact that these things have on your characters. 504 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.980 And the single biggest thing lacking in Chris Chibnall's writing 505 00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.279 and we got it this season as well as the previous seasons, is that 506 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.140 things don't impact on his characters. 507 00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:32.640 We don't learn anything about them. 508 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:37.680 So Dan, who I think has been a missed opportunity and has gotten 509 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.240 by on the charisma of the actor. 510 00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:39.900 That's all. 511 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:44.160 Um, That scene with Diane could have been revealing of him. 512 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.700 It was kind of the last best chance to give him some interiority 513 00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.019 and again, it was just glossed over. 514 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.859 And so it has no impact on us because we can't see any impact on 515 00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:53.039 him. 516 00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:59.519 We did get that speech from him in episode 3 about being left at 517 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:00.180 the altar. 518 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.579 But again, that was kind of a kicked puppy moment. 519 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.900 You know, like it was meant to engender sympathy for him from us 520 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:07.980 and from Diane. 521 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.220 But we didn't learn anything about him, really. 522 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.559 You know, that's a thing that happened to him. 523 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:16.680 And do you love how? 524 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:17.880 Tommy more about Singh. 525 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.440 It's basically what I get from that. 526 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:26.880 He just doesn't understand human emotion. 527 00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:31.319 I wonder if the, is it the Grand Serpent? 528 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:33.119 I always forget what his name is. 529 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.420 I wonder, you know, he's now stuck on some asteroid somewhere, his 530 00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:38.400 revenge is coming with Kate Stewart. 531 00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:40.859 You know, is it going to be in the 2nd special or the 3rd 532 00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:41.400 special? 533 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:41.819 Who knows? 534 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:43.799 I actually hope to see him again. 535 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:44.819 Yeah, he was great at his time. 536 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.720 Yeah. 537 00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:52.980 Swarm Azia, the Son Tarans, and the Grand Serpent were all pretty 538 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:53.400 great. 539 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:56.880 And Swarmanazir who were criminally underused, were just 540 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.079 tremendous. 541 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:02.279 Just the look and the acting and they were so camp. 542 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:04.019 It was really something. 543 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.680 And if I understand, swarm correctly. 544 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:12.539 Um, he wanted to destroy the universe, released time, and then 545 00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:13.440 just rewatch it. 546 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:16.200 So I have a lot of sympathy with that kind of impulse. 547 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.279 He's a block to me. 548 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.000 Yeah, exactly. 549 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:22.859 All right. 550 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:28.380 Well, I think that we're done for the season then, and so I've got 551 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:33.000 a few things left to plug, uh, we are releasing our Wedding of 552 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.960 River song episode on Flight Through Entirety, uh, this coming 553 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:37.680 Sunday. 554 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:44.339 Brendan has released his walk to work with Whittaker episode for 555 00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.460 episode six, so there'll be a link to that in the show notes. 556 00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:49.440 Take a look in your podcatcher. 557 00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:53.519 He doesn't get run over this week and it's always delightful when 558 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.299 that happens. 559 00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:58.920 We also have maximum power nearing the very end of series A of 560 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:04.680 Blake 7 and Joe and I will be tackling our 1st episode of 561 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:11.819 Enterprise this coming Friday on Untitled Star Trek project. 562 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:14.339 So there's a long road getting there. 563 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:16.019 And we make that point. 564 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:16.980 Sorry. 565 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:18.960 All right. 566 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:24.180 So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, have a 567 00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:28.079 relaxing and enjoyable holiday season and we will see you again 568 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:29.519 early in the new year. 569 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.039 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 570 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:33.119 Good night. 571 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:34.559 See you soon. 572 00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:36.240 Remember, everyone. 573 00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:38.519 A Cavanistra is for life, not just for Christmas. 574 00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:42.000 6.5 out of 10.