WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:03:26

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Into Terror, the

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only Doctor Who flash cast that brought you word peril, space

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reasons, and the exposition coma.

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So our lawyers will be calling Chris Chibnell in the morning.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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And I'm Simon.

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So we are here to talk about survivors of the flux, which screened

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on Monday morning hour time and Sunday evening in the UK, written

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by Chris Chibnell, and directed by Azure Salim, who directed once

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upon time.

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What I thought we would do with this one, given that it is 4 plots

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the B plot, the C plot, the D plot, and the E plot, I think.

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We are going to, that's not my joke.

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We're going to go through them in no particular order.

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And let's start with the Bell and Vinder plot.

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I want to call the Bender.

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Is that their couple name, Brendan?

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I like to refer to them as Belinda, but Bender, I think, works as

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well.

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They're certainly gonna need a drink after all this.

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So how did you think that that one went?

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Brendan.

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Um, I thought, you know, I thought we could have used a bit more

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screwball comedy with her sort of almost making it and then then

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having to fly off.

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Um, but I continue to find her so charming and most of the stuff

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she's had to do is by herself.

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And I feel she really carries those scenes with her little um, with

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her little uh, Tamagotchi sidekick.

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Hey, I'm a boy child.

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And her as yet, I'm going, oh, okay.

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As for Vinder, um...

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Well, look, he was there this week.

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He was fine.

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Um, He had a little bit more to do this week at least, but I'd

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like to see a lot more of both of them, frankly.

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And I think the the, the flux arc would be a lot better if we were

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seeing a bit more of them.

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I think they're great.

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They're really a highlight of the series for me.

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I think he's terribly cute and I think she is as well.

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Um, but, they are, they do seem to be just sort of wandering

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around, you know, like, yeah.

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There are a lot of scenes last week that didn't really kind of

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amount to anything and I think we got that a little bit here.

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I mean, we pushed the plot forward a bit because, what, vinder

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meets die and um, and Bell meets Carvanista.

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And so that's something.

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But we don't know what's coming of that.

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Yeah, that seems to have been pretty much what happened for them.

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Yeah, in some, in some ways last week was a bit of a holding

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passion for them.

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They were kind of in effective stasis.

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They're just a couple of scenes just to remind us that they

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existed.

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Perhaps it would have been more interesting if the content, their

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content from the last episode had been kind of brought into this

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one and it would have felt like we'd have gotten to know what's

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going on with them a bit more.

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Yeah, I understand like there's a temptation, I think, to make the

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angels just a standalone, which would have been good.

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It would have meant that we weren't interrupted by space things

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and we could have kind of kept a tight focus.

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But I kind of get that we want this thing where we have

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interweaving plots.

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If we have a kind of big event series, a big event season, you

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know, you kind of want to sell that in each episode.

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So, you know, like I understand why that decision was made.

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Yeah, I entirely agree.

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I think it would have been better though, had they been a little

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bit more established before we got to that, and then they can kind

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of fade away and then come back.

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Yes, you need to keep the ongoing through line.

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You need them to appear, you know, in each episode, but, you know

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you can still have the bell and vinder light episode, which is

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supposed to be effectively what we got last time.

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You know, like I'm starting to see the effect of COVID more and

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more.

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I mean, there was that hilarious scene last week where the crowd

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all had to stand one. 5 metres apart from one another so the

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transportation beam worked perfectly.

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But there's a lot of scenes here where people speak to themselves

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particularly Jody.

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I mean, that's how this episode starts, and we've got Bell and

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Vinder, who are essentially meeting one other person or speaking

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to themselves a lot.

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And, you know, it shows a bit, I think.

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All right.

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Yeah, Brendan.

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I was just going to say on that scene with Jody talking to

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herself.

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I have seen it suggested online, um, someone I follow on Twitter

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and unfortunately, I can't remember who they were right now, kind

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of say, oh, you know, we could, we just could have had Jody arrive

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and a bit of technobabble explained.

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I'm like, I actually really loved Jody in that scene, not just as

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the doctor, but she's also the voice of the angels in that scene.

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Yes.

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I only picked that up the 2nd time I watched it actually.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that was super effective.

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And it's like, yeah, you can just gloss over this with a line of

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technobabble, or you can give Jody something interesting to do

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which is something we complain doesn't always happen.

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Look, I mean, the way the way that we got out of the cliffhanger

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from last week so quickly, you know, like, it was a, it was a

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little bit of a cheat.

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It's half a step up from Yeah, it's hard to step up from someone

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walking in saying stop, basically.

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Imagine how much worse it'd be if we didn't resolve the

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cliffhanger.

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It would have been much worse.

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And we would have been robbed of that beautiful, weird visual of

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the plane of angel stretching off into the distance under that

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sort of stormy sky, like the scenes last week with Claire.

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And one of the things this episode does is put weird visuals on

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screen and I'm absolutely here for it.

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Yes.

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But I think it's not how they get out of the cliffhanger per se.

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It's the fact that it happened straight away.

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I think what was needed was for it to go to something else first.

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So you have 3 minutes just of that suspension of tension before

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you know, it's almost like, you know, okay, we don't do omnibuses

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anymore, but let's just pretend you're watching it. omnibus.

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It would be, she turns into an angel and then 5 seconds later, she

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the angel part melts away.

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Yeah, you know what I mean?

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needed to cut to something else.

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Although I remember, sorry, go on, Brandon.

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I remember who it was now, who said the thing I just said, it was

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friend of the podcast, Kevin.

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Ah, yes, of course.

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He also pointed out that he would have had the Yas and Dan and

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Hugo Lang montage at the beginning first.

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And then revealed the doctor.

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It's fine.

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So it does give those extra few minutes, as you say, Simon, and

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yeah, it's a really good point.

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Although that, that very 1st visual of what seemed to be

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unmistakeably Jody's hands over her face, you know, seeing her

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fingers, like I thought that that was, uh, that was really

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something.

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There is, there is something about the visuals and something about

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those backgrounds that don't look real.

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I mean, they look like special effects, but I think they look

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really effective and they create a sense of scale.

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They look unreal in a good way.

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Yeah, yeah.

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If I can lip that way.

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Not unreal, isn't rubbish.

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Unrealizing, you know, otherworldly.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's, I think it's great.

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I hope that that's a technology that we continue with into the

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future.

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All right.

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Let's talk about the 2nd plot, and that is Yaz, Dan, and Eustacius

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Jericho.

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How do we feel that went?

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Simon.

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Well, I think they move around the planet.

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Perhaps unnecessarily and perhaps a little bit ridiculously.

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Like, I'm not sure why they pick up the pot from the Chichen Itza

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in Mexico.

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And then for some reason, the only person who can translate it is

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in Constantinople because of course they'd be familiar with the

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culture of Miso America.

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And then they have to go to the Great Wall of China in order to

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you know, message Carbonista by not rising on the Great Wall of

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China.

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I didn't understand that at all.

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Well, I don't know what.

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Well, I don't know whether it's something to do with, you know, how

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the, the, the alleged claim that the Great Wall of China is

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visible from space or something.

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And so that they would write a message to him on the Great Wall of

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China.

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Well, of China, but they rode around it and the Great Wall didn't

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even make a an underline.

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You know, or something.

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It was kind of, it was kind of a gap in the middle of the, in the

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middle of the thing.

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But look, I think they're obviously very entertaining.

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I love the fact that, you know, the 2 middle-aged men are the ones

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who are kind of bumbling around and, you know, Yaz is the one who

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knows what she's doing and that's great.

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Yeah, I mean, that was that was probably the plotline that I was

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most engaged.

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Yeah, I certainly wasn't engaged with what the doctor was doing.

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I just thought it was really terrifically funny.

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What about you, Brandon?

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's the thing.

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It's like, this is incredibly inefficient, but also a lot of fun.

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Yeah.

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And, um, especially the scene with the, um, with the guru on the

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mountain. like it, you know, it is obviously so modern.

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It's it's it's almost like Archer. in its sense of humour.

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Um, but I, I, I actually turned to Rod in that scene.

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I said, oh, look out, they're going to become the champions any

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moment.

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I did think the guru jumped the shark somewhat.

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I confess.

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I thought that was a little bit like he was a, he was a guru that

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you kind of were more likely to sort of find in, you know, in, you

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know, Los Angeles in, you know, 1973 rather than in...

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I mean, it's obviously a fun night version of what is a sort of

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fairly racist trope.

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And so what you do is you have him played by an Indian guy and

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he's not an idiot and he's sort of funny and likeable and he's got

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the upper hand in that entire thing.

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And the look on his face when he says the word dog because he

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wasn't expecting it at all.

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And he kind of, like, what?

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You know, like I think that's actually really pretty fun.

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The, you know, the bit from the trailer where Dan just slams into

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the floor and Yaz says, you're right?

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or something like it's so good.

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Watcher.

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Like, she's really fun in it.

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And her beating up the guy was really great as well.

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I was just waiting for one of the men to rescue her and it never

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happened and I was super pleased with that.

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It is really... yeah go on.

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Simon.

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I was just going to say, and I really loved when she's watching

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the doctor's video recording and the look in her eyes is quite

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something in terms of it really is communicating something with

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just a look.

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I think that was lovely.

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She's so, she's been so wasted over these 3 years.

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And because she's...

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Yeah, she's really good.

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And it just, you know, she just hasn't been given the opportunity

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to breathe, I think.

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Again, though, it was very plotty and not, there's no story, you

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know, like they just go from place to place to place.

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And, you know, maybe we would have been happy with Constantinople

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had it been sold a bit better or whatever.

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Like a, you know, like a better constructed script would have

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given us better reasons to go from place to place.

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But, you know, like it was really sort of just terribly fun.

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But that's why I'm, yeah, but that's why I'm sort of sort of

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curious because you already have the epic feel by being over so

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many episodes and you have the epic feel that you've got, you know

248
00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:54.899
you're going to so many different time zones and you've got some

249
00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:56.460
time, you've got angels and you've got the whole thing.

250
00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.519
You don't actually need them to be going to 3 and 45 different

251
00:11:59.519 --> 00:11:59.940
places.

252
00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:03.240
You could have the whole thing set in, or their bit set in

253
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.659
Constantinople, and that kind of gives you perhaps a bit more of a

254
00:12:06.659 --> 00:12:11.039
sense of place and a bit more of a, uh, a connection to it rather

255
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:12.299
than just kind of random stuff.

256
00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:16.799
It's supposed to be kind of like a sort of, you know, Indiana

257
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.639
Jonesy sort of capery thing, you know, like with...

258
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:21.360
Oh, absolutely.

259
00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:24.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

260
00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:25.919
And I think it definitely works.

261
00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:31.440
I kind of like that this season is never giving me the chance to

262
00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:32.700
get bored.

263
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.159
You know, then...

264
00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:36.720
There is no chance.

265
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:39.299
There is absolutely no chance that you can go, yeah, I've spent

266
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:39.960
enough time here now.

267
00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:41.580
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

268
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:47.159
Whereas series 11, which I still enjoyed, has some, has some

269
00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:51.899
settings that I'm like, this is very worthy, but I'd like to go

270
00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:52.440
somewhere else now.

271
00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:55.320
Can we have some fun?

272
00:12:55.799 --> 00:13:00.659
And in terms of characterisation, and, you know, yeah, yeah, being

273
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:02.340
a bit wasted in the previous 2 series.

274
00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:05.639
All the characters who've been newly introduced.

275
00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:11.340
So Bell, Vendor, even the Grand Serpent, even Techtaune in this

276
00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:14.700
episode, it's like, we're out to episode 5 now, and I feel like I

277
00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:18.899
know these people better than I knew Yaz and Ryan in the Saranga

278
00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:19.320
conundrum.

279
00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:21.419
Yeah.

280
00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.600
Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I know a lot about them.

281
00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:29.100
Because I can sort of go how they'd react in a certain situation.

282
00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:32.399
It is kind of funny because we have all of our characters sort of

283
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.620
wandering around randomly bumping into each other.

284
00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.460
You know, like and now Carbonist is meeting Bell and now, you know

285
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:42.120
we're meeting Williamson and now this is happening, you know, and

286
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.659
they're all kind of sort of bumping into one another, like, I

287
00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:48.840
don't know, Adam's in a particle accelerator.

288
00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:51.299
But that's kind of what you want to have happen at this point.

289
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.940
You want to have them all start to come get into a hole.

290
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:55.559
And I think you can sort of see that.

291
00:13:55.620 --> 00:14:01.440
So let's do our next plot, which is the Grand Serpent setting up

292
00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:01.919
unit.

293
00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.519
How do we think that went, Brendan?

294
00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.940
The only way I can enjoy this is to go that he has messed around

295
00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:14.879
with time and and so it's wrong.

296
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.820
Because...

297
00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:19.259
Are you having a unit dating crisis?

298
00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:20.279
I think it happened.

299
00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:20.879
I think.

300
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:28.259
Okay, it is impossible for Lethburn Stewart to be a corporal in

301
00:14:28.259 --> 00:14:32.220
1968 and become a colonel by the time of the weather fear, no

302
00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:34.620
matter what timeline you set the weather fear in.

303
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.759
It is impossible within the ranking structure of the British

304
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:39.360
army.

305
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:40.440
Did they call what I'm saying?

306
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:41.639
Corporal or colonel, I think.

307
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.200
They called him a corporal.

308
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.639
They called him a corporal.

309
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:45.360
967.

310
00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:46.080
Yeah.

311
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:47.580
Don't say that we're fair.

312
00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.639
We say that in age, the Webber Fear is 1975, isn't that what's

313
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:50.879
supposed to be?

314
00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:52.679
You're saying it's impossible to traverse that?

315
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.200
What if you need something really impressive?

316
00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:58.259
Even if he does, you know, even if he does something really

317
00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:00.179
impressive, he would become a junior officer.

318
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.600
Not a, you know, not a kernel.

319
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.759
But apart from that blatant...

320
00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:09.480
Are you worried?

321
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.220
Are you worried?

322
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:12.000
Yeah, that's right.

323
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:14.100
I'm writing to my MP about it as you see.

324
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:17.820
I'm a very passionate person.

325
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.519
I'm the guy who's supposed to be complaining the Doctor Who's not

326
00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:21.000
realistic.

327
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.460
That's my role.

328
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:31.440
Look, as a look, if unit have never existed before now.

329
00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:32.940
Okay, let's put it that way.

330
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:38.039
Yes, that's an interesting idea that you have this figure weaving

331
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:41.879
himself into Earth's 1st line of alien defence. over the course of

332
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:43.980
60 years.

333
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.340
No, I think that's a really interesting idea.

334
00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:52.080
And um, The Grand Serpent is a really great villain.

335
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:52.740
Yeah.

336
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:54.779
So, yeah.

337
00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.379
Yeah, what did you think, Simon?

338
00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:59.700
Do you seem more sceptical.

339
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.120
No, not sceptical.

340
00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:07.019
Just it just felt a bit too fanny that we're going to sort of

341
00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:10.440
traverse the the creation of unit through this guy.

342
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:13.320
It's kind of cool, but I was sort of more interested in everything

343
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.480
else that was going on rather than that.

344
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:17.279
But having said that, yes, he's very good.

345
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:19.980
Yes, I think it's actually quite well done and I think all the

346
00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:22.559
different little scenes throughout the history.

347
00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:25.919
I, I think are quite, are quite nice and I don't have any, I don't

348
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:26.759
have a problem with it, certainly.

349
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:29.460
And I don't care whether, I mean, I've never had a problem with

350
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:30.179
the unit dating.

351
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.840
I can have 7 different unit timelines in my head simultaneously

352
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.919
and it just doesn't matter.

353
00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:39.720
Yeah, I thought that actually some of that was really great.

354
00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:43.559
Like the, you know, the idea that they missed the post office

355
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.559
tower and they decide, you know, like because they were kind of

356
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:50.039
only just getting going and stuff, like that was terribly fun.

357
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.620
I think his performance is amazingly great.

358
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:54.299
I loved the snake.

359
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:59.759
I loved. is it Robert Bathurst, the guy that he was the lead in

360
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:01.500
joking apart.

361
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:05.460
And he's fantastic.

362
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:07.619
You know, like he's so great.

363
00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:08.940
He's such a twit.

364
00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:15.059
You know, like he's so hopeless and it's just like, oh, he's a

365
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:15.720
random person.

366
00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:18.900
I went and clay pigeon shooting with and I'm going to get him to

367
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:22.259
help me design my ultra secret, you know, paramilitary

368
00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:23.400
organisation and stuff.

369
00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:26.460
She seems like a, he seems like the right sort of chat.

370
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:27.960
That's exactly it.

371
00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:29.279
It was just wonderful.

372
00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:30.720
He was really funny.

373
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:32.579
You know, all of that was great.

374
00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:34.619
The snake was really awesome.

375
00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:40.380
But I just couldn't help thinking that this isn't really going to

376
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:40.920
go anywhere.

377
00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:46.140
And I also kind of think that it's also a sort of 15 minute

378
00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:49.559
apology for that crappy joke in resolution.

379
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:57.059
So that's why Kate Stewart couldn't be caught, you know, couldn't

380
00:17:57.059 --> 00:17:58.140
be contacted on the phone.

381
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.059
So, I don't know.

382
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.019
We'll see if that goes anywhere, but certainly it had some pretty

383
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:05.460
entertaining moments in it.

384
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:07.259
So I'm sort of here for that, I think.

385
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:08.700
All right.

386
00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:15.599
So it's the plot with the bits of the episode with Jody with the

387
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.920
doctor in them.

388
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:18.420
How did you feel it went?

389
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:26.099
Brendan This kind of thing is my bag, baby.

390
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.359
It really is.

391
00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:34.680
Yeah, I love having 2 actors go at good material with gusto and

392
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:35.339
emotion.

393
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:40.559
Look, I have reservations about the doctor being a victim of

394
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:41.099
trauma.

395
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.059
I do have reservations about that, but accepting that that is what

396
00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:45.480
we're doing.

397
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.559
I thought Jody was sensational in those scenes.

398
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:52.079
I thought Barbara Flynn was excellent as well.

399
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.740
And they're sort of, you know, moving around each other in that

400
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.579
set, that beautiful like TARDIS with a tree in the centre of it

401
00:18:59.579 --> 00:19:00.359
set.

402
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.380
The sort of sacura desktop theme she's got going.

403
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:11.339
Yeah, look, it, you know, and by nature, it's going to be wordy

404
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.119
its exposition.

405
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.279
Jody having things explained to her again.

406
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:19.500
But, you know, then you get that scene with Jody and the Oud.

407
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:23.640
And persuading the Oud to try and start to help her.

408
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.819
And when I'm watching that, I'm going, I know we're not going to

409
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.019
get the payoff to that this episode.

410
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.079
I'm looking forward to payoff to that.

411
00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:33.180
Of course, the Ud leaps into action.

412
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:34.140
Of course he does.

413
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:35.220
We love the od.

414
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:35.880
That what's happening.

415
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.000
There are songs, song of her.

416
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:39.720
Yes.

417
00:19:39.779 --> 00:19:45.480
So, is it true, Simon, to say that everything that you compress

418
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.000
can be uncompressed later?

419
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.019
Yeah, I didn't quite get that because the flux isn't really

420
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:53.160
compressing things, is it?

421
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:55.559
It kind of disintegrating them and making them go whiskey off into

422
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:56.099
the distance.

423
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.519
No, because we have to adversity in episode six, so it compresses

424
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:00.359
them now.

425
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:01.619
Yeah.

426
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:02.279
Right.

427
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:02.579
Okay.

428
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.859
But, look, I mean, I was only watching it the 2nd time that I

429
00:20:07.859 --> 00:20:11.339
realised that, you know, the doctors on the in the Field of Angels

430
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:15.299
for a few minutes and then she's spending the rest of the episode

431
00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:19.680
with Czech Taun, and I realised, my God, you really do have that

432
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:25.019
amount of time, with the 2 of them talking with the oud.

433
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.480
I mean, it starts with Tectayon saying, so you'd like to know

434
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:28.200
about the division.

435
00:20:28.259 --> 00:20:31.140
And it's like the curiosity show.

436
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.779
I mean, this creek goes over the head of a lot of Arington, all

437
00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:35.880
their international audience and anyone under the age of about

438
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:36.660
sort of 35.

439
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.579
But, you know, it's like, I'm glad you asked.

440
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.880
I will now tell you for the next 40 minutes what everything about

441
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.420
the division.

442
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.880
It's kind of, it's not that I don't like exposition.

443
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.400
Exposition's going to be, and a certain amount of technobabble is

444
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.500
always going to be a part of a program like this and a plot like

445
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:49.740
this.

446
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:50.759
Yes, and I love it.

447
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:52.680
I lap it up, like you, Brendan, I can lap it up.

448
00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:53.160
I can sit there.

449
00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:53.700
I can laugh.

450
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:59.759
But I just think it was ham fisted in the sort of the sense that

451
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:04.680
it was just not very well crafted and so it was just a whole lot

452
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:09.119
of stuff mushed together rather than it feeling like it was being

453
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:09.660
revealed.

454
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.440
Yeah, I think I think essentially that that's the problem.

455
00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:18.960
If Jody had found that stuff out, then I think it would be better

456
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.680
than, you know, because it is just basically the same exposition

457
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.460
being explained to Jody that she had explained to her 7 episodes

458
00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:26.880
ago.

459
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:30.299
And I just kind of think, oh, you know, come on.

460
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.380
And it is, it's a little bit, you know, the, you know, everyone

461
00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:36.119
loves fugitive of the Jadoon.

462
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:39.539
But there's the scenes with Captain Jack, which is literally just

463
00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:44.279
10 minutes of nothing happening on a set while people just talk.

464
00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:49.500
You know, no, there's no peril, there's no obstacles, there's no

465
00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:55.200
like, like, I think that this is a lot of plot, the flux, generally

466
00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:01.859
but no story because the characters aren't going on a journey or

467
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:03.720
learning anything or doing anything.

468
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:07.259
And I think that's what he's going for, is going for like big

469
00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:10.740
space things and they're fun to look at and there's some pleasure

470
00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:12.539
to be had there.

471
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.819
But I don't think this even reached the level of plot.

472
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.819
I think this was just, you know, he's the thing again.

473
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:23.519
Um, and, you know, like she doesn't have a relationship with Tech

474
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.180
Taune.

475
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.380
She never met her.

476
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.160
Um, so, like, she doesn't remember meeting her.

477
00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:32.519
Yeah, yeah, but that's the same thing, you know, like, that's the

478
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:32.880
same thing.

479
00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:36.119
You know, she can't be a victim of trauma if she doesn't remember

480
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.240
having experienced the trauma, you know, in a very rare way it

481
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:40.019
didn't happen to her.

482
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:44.519
I think that this whole backstory has no bearing on the doctor and

483
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.220
that's pretty much what she says in the timeless child.

484
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.079
So I know why we're doing it again.

485
00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.720
So I did think that killed him.

486
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:52.559
We're doubling down.

487
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:53.579
Yeah, yeah.

488
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:55.559
I saw it as doubling down on the toilet.

489
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:56.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

490
00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:59.400
Well, even to the point where she says, so the, you know, the

491
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.700
master, everything the master told me was true and it's just, you

492
00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:04.440
know, take Tame doesn't say, wait, who?

493
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:06.960
Um, again, someone else said that.

494
00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:10.799
But, you know, like it just sort of was, you know, all right.

495
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:17.880
And I do think some, there's the COVID thing is showing, you know

496
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:21.839
that we're not going to all have a car chase.

497
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:26.039
We're not going to, you know, do anything sort of, it is just

498
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.339
going to be us standing around in a very weird and very beautiful

499
00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:32.339
set, just talking about space things.

500
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:36.240
And it's also chip not trusting the audience a little bit.

501
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:41.279
You know, the bit where Yaz explains the cyanide in the tooth, the

502
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:42.720
cyanide capsule in the tooth?

503
00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:43.500
Yeah.

504
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.420
And you kind of go, oh, come on.

505
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.839
Like we've watched television before. don't need to do that.

506
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:50.519
In fact, it would be cooler not to.

507
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:53.940
You could just do that and not have the line of dialogue

508
00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:55.619
explaining what had just happened.

509
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:03.299
And here, you know, like the visual of the division base between

510
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:10.380
the 2 universes was so good and so well done that you didn't need

511
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:13.380
quite as much explanation, I think.

512
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.099
I think we could be shown these things on TV.

513
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.779
It's not a big Finnish script, you know, we could be shown stuff, I

514
00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:21.960
think.

515
00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:24.299
Yes, look out there.

516
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:25.079
There are 100s of them.

517
00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:29.519
I think that there's, um, there's, it's that thing that there

518
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.160
because they spend the entire time yabbbering at each other.

519
00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:37.319
You don't get time to appreciate any sense of mystery or any sense

520
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:43.140
of one or it's just all being fired at you at such a rapid pace

521
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:46.980
that you can't appreciate it properly.

522
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.740
And I think that's what I, what I'm saying, we're being sort of

523
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:50.460
smushed together.

524
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:55.200
I mean, like I do think that the 2 actors did a good job with what

525
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:55.619
they had.

526
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.000
Just as Sasha did, you know, with the exposition in the timeless

527
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:00.480
child.

528
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:03.000
And in fact, I'm giving, is it Barbara Flynn?

529
00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:04.740
Barbara Flynn.

530
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:07.799
She's getting the Sasha Dawan award for services to exposition

531
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:08.819
this week, actually.

532
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:17.039
I was just going to say, regarding Tech Teune.

533
00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:24.480
The thing that disappointed me a little bit was, It's like 2 weeks

534
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:27.059
ago when we saw it, people were like, oh, God, it's Tecton.

535
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:29.099
And I was like, well, yes, that's the most obvious person it could

536
00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:29.279
be.

537
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.559
And it ended up being the most obvious person it could be.

538
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:32.099
Yeah.

539
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:33.119
Stephen Buffett approach.

540
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.059
I thought it was going to be the frog.

541
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:43.980
The the other thing with the with the Sinai capsule.

542
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:49.680
We need to keep in mind, I think, that children are watching who

543
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.619
aren't familiar with like the tropes of spy thrillers and Agatha

544
00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:53.519
Christie and what have you.

545
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:59.700
And without that, without that line, the visuals are like, hold on

546
00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:00.599
does Yaz kill him?

547
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:01.799
Oh, yeah, that's true.

548
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:02.279
Yeah.

549
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:06.180
And I think I think that's that's the reason it has to be in

550
00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:06.420
there.

551
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:10.740
It has to be utterly clear that he took his own life, not one of

552
00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:11.220
our heroes.

553
00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:14.880
Even though they do then think the sharks.

554
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:16.980
With this course.

555
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.440
One of my former students contact.

556
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.240
I think that's actually how necessarily gruesome makes up.

557
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:22.200
I quite like it.

558
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:25.440
Why do I, why do I, forward students contacted me today and said

559
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:32.160
uh, how come uh, Yaz has so much experience getting rid of bodies

560
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.799
you know, so much confidence and experience when it comes to

561
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.700
getting rid of bodies.

562
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.759
And I explained she was a member of the police force and he

563
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.259
thought that that was probably fair enough.

564
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.019
All right.

565
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.000
Okay.

566
00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:49.440
So does anyone have that's our 4 plots.

567
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:52.079
So does anyone have any closing statement?

568
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:56.099
Just before we get to the closing statement.

569
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.400
I just need to mention that the snake did, whatever his name was.

570
00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:02.400
I love the fact that if Kate's being told that unit's being

571
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:03.599
defunded in 2017.

572
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.619
In 2021, he still has the unit logo on his TV screen.

573
00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:10.140
Did you say?

574
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.200
He stole it from the office.

575
00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:17.460
He stole it to replace the screensaver on the TV.

576
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.380
Just him now.

577
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.480
Unit is just a bloke in an almost.

578
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.500
There you go, yes, yeah.

579
00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:25.980
It's like Torchwood Swansea or wherever it was. there's one

580
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:29.460
there's one torchwood that is just a bloke in an office on a

581
00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:30.420
seashore or something.

582
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:36.180
He's so good Look, look, look, look. poured into that suit.

583
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:36.720
Yes.

584
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:42.180
Look, look, my sort of feeling is that, I mean, I, I, my favourite

585
00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:45.779
episode of the series so far is certainly the 2nd episode, and I

586
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:50.160
think that's still, that's because it's the one that felt most

587
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:51.420
engaging.

588
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:56.099
And I can't escape the fact that it's the one where the doctor and

589
00:27:56.099 --> 00:28:00.000
the companions are interacting with the widest array of other

590
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:00.660
characters.

591
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.019
Um, you know, rather than having Vinder and Bell off doing their

592
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:07.200
own thing and, you know, someone as you're only turning up sort of

593
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.980
at the end, they're all, you know, there's all this other stuff

594
00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:11.519
happening.

595
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:13.859
And, and, I mean, I was engaged by that.

596
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:14.519
I was drawn.

597
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:17.039
I was finding that I wasn't breathing properly when we got to that

598
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:17.759
cliffhanger.

599
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:22.380
Um, I just feel that what's missing is, is craft.

600
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:29.700
The whole thing is not coming together in a way that justifies its

601
00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:32.160
scope, if I can put it that way.

602
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:36.299
It needs to, it needed to be just more clearly thought through, and

603
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:38.339
I'm not saying it's because it's all moving too fast, and I

604
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:40.920
appreciate there are certain ways they want to sort of make it

605
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:42.119
make it exciting and engaging.

606
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:43.680
But just having an awful lot of stuff happening.

607
00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.859
It doesn't make it exciting and engaging unless you can see more

608
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:48.480
clearly how it's all fitting together.

609
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:52.799
I hope it all resolves next week in a satisfactory way.

610
00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:55.440
I'm not expecting it to be completely satisfactory, but I'm just

611
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.440
hopeful that a few of the sort of bits come together.

612
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:00.779
I'm worried it's not going to though.

613
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:05.640
There's the Star Trek principle, you know, where the odd-numbered

614
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.460
episodes are sort of a bit disappointing and the even-numbered

615
00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:09.240
episodes are good.

616
00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:14.940
And so we, who knows next week could be the undiscovered country.

617
00:29:15.420 --> 00:29:15.900
Exactly.

618
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.259
And it's not just, it's not just the odd number ones aren't as

619
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:19.500
good.

620
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:23.880
The odd numbers ones are also weird and experimental and weirdly

621
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.599
put together.

622
00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:29.339
And I think that's definitely true of one, 3, and 5 of blocks. and

623
00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:30.720
2 and 4 are the better one.

624
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:31.920
You know?

625
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:36.420
I mean, I think of the odd numbered episodes, I think that this

626
00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:38.160
was the one that I enjoyed the most.

627
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:42.299
Um, I didn't yeah, I didn't like 3 very much.

628
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:43.140
I thought one was fine.

629
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:45.960
Like, I like that structure of just, you know, introducing

630
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:50.099
everyone and having this sort of huge universe spanning event.

631
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.680
I thought that was, you know, reasonably well done.

632
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:59.700
Oh, best line of the show, um, is, is where Yaz says, are you from

633
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:01.019
Liverpool, Dan?

634
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:02.940
You've never mentioned it.

635
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.740
And her delivery of that line and the look on her face after she

636
00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:11.880
says it, I roared out, you know, I roared with laughter.

637
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:12.660
It was wonderful.

638
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:13.799
She's really good.

639
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:24.059
And also, regarding that scene, isn't Chris Chibnall very

640
00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:27.660
considerate giving big finish, Mandip Gill, John Bishop and Kevin

641
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:29.940
McNally, box sets for years?

642
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.500
Oh, I'm there for that.

643
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:36.539
In 1908, in 1901 to 1904 of them knocking about.

644
00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:38.400
Robbing people.

645
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.319
Because we've been in this time zone for 3 years.

646
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.019
We've been in this decade for 3 years now.

647
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:44.460
Yaz, as you know.

648
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.079
I think they've been robbing people for 2 years, so they can

649
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:50.700
afford all the overseas travel.

650
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:54.180
Yeah, no.

651
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:56.099
They're from the future.

652
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.779
No, they've been they've been manually reinserting the village

653
00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:04.500
back into the earth surface for 2 years, I think, probably.

654
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.359
All right.

655
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:06.960
Okay.

656
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:14.759
So in that case, um, we've got some plugs, uh, series 6 of Flight

657
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.359
3 entire 80 continues unabated and next week, we will be joined by

658
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.380
Joe Ford and Jack Shanahan for closing time.

659
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:28.740
And then we'll sort of finish the series a bit after that.

660
00:31:30.059 --> 00:31:33.299
Have you been walking to work with Whittaker today?

661
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:35.880
A walk to work with Whittaker.

662
00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:40.440
Will return about 12 hours after this episode goes up.

663
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.539
Basically, there was no time to do it today, so I'll do it

664
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:43.079
tomorrow morning.

665
00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:44.039
Okay, brilliant.

666
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:44.880
Don't get run over.

667
00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:46.319
I will not.

668
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:50.759
And then our other podcast, maximum power continues with series A

669
00:31:50.759 --> 00:31:53.759
and Untitled Star Trek project.

670
00:31:53.819 --> 00:32:00.480
We recently did our 1st episode of Discovery, which we liked very

671
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:00.779
much.

672
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:05.700
And next week we are going to do Star Trek, the original series

673
00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:06.960
The Corpa Mite maneuver.

674
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.200
So keep an eye out for that on Friday.

675
00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:16.200
And so all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember

676
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.259
that teasing people is important.

677
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.599
Make sure you never miss an opportunity to do it.

678
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.279
I don't.

679
00:32:23.339 --> 00:32:25.680
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

680
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:26.700
Good night.

681
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:27.359
Good night.