WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:34:05 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.259 Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to Jody and Terra, the only 2 00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:07.799 Doctor Who flash cast that serves as a statement on modern 3 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:08.400 society. 4 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:11.220 Ooh, isn't modern society awful. 5 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:12.539 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:13.800 I'm Brendan. 7 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:14.939 I'm Todd. 8 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:16.079 And I'm Johnny. 9 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:23.579 So we are just over 24 hours away from our 1st viewing of the 10 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:29.699 festive special for 2021, which is called something, Revolution of 11 00:00:29.699 --> 00:00:30.660 the Daleks. 12 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.920 And I thought we'd begin by just sort of going around the table 13 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:38.700 and getting everyone sort of 1st impressions. 14 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:40.979 Actually, I've got no idea what Johnny thinks of this. 15 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:41.820 So let's start with him. 16 00:00:41.939 --> 00:00:44.399 Oh, I really enjoyed it. 17 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:48.479 And partly because I always enjoy festive specials because I'm 18 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.600 usually watching them with friends and wine and so they nearly 19 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:52.079 always. 20 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:55.500 They are nearly always come off very, very well indeed. 21 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.579 Um, but this was, this was good and it left me with the feeling 22 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:05.159 that Chipnell knows how to do those those big festive specials 23 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:06.000 pretty well. 24 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.239 He's done 3 of them now, and I think they've all come off. 25 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:13.260 Um, relatively, relatively nicely. 26 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:18.420 And I think just scanning over it briefly before I jumped on air. 27 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:23.099 I think the thing it has to do is be fast and slow all the time 28 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:26.280 you know, it has to move from action piece to slow sort of 29 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.959 character moments and has to sort of juggle that throughout the 30 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:31.739 entire thing. 31 00:01:31.739 --> 00:01:34.560 And, um, no, I thought it, I thought it did pretty well. 32 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:36.420 Brilliant. 33 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:37.680 Todd, how about you? 34 00:01:37.739 --> 00:01:39.480 It was fine. 35 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:44.040 And uh, Chris Chibnol episode that doesn't annoy me with dialogue 36 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:48.180 or plot points or uh, any Jody episode that where she doesn't 37 00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:52.200 annoy me is actually a good episode and she was good and I really 38 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.920 loved her pet talk to the Daleks and some of her quieter moments. 39 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:02.700 So I actually thought, yeah, this was, um, yeah, I liked it. 40 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.140 Um, I don't know what else to say. 41 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:08.520 Nope, that's good. 42 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.340 We'll get back to more things in a minute, Brendan. 43 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:13.020 Um, it's funny. 44 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.960 Sort of after it finished, I felt like I didn't really enjoy it 45 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:16.500 all that much. 46 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:20.219 And then when I watched it again, I'm like, no, I actually really 47 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:21.599 quite enjoyed this. 48 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:26.280 I did have problems with it, which I'm sure we'll discuss later on 49 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:26.520 here. 50 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:30.780 But overall, I did quite enjoy it. 51 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:34.500 I thought it used most of the characters really well, and I 52 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:38.400 thought it was another cracking performance from Jody, who in The 53 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.460 Timeless Children, which I've got, you know, big problems with the 54 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:44.280 structure of, I couldn't fault her performance in that, and she's 55 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:45.360 still bringing that same level. 56 00:02:46.259 --> 00:02:51.300 I have to say that I was initially pretty bored with it. 57 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.939 And particularly, I still think that it takes far, far too long to 58 00:02:56.939 --> 00:02:57.599 get to the point. 59 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:00.840 But I think there's some fun to be had. 60 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:06.780 Um, And yeah, some things actively annoyed me, but generally 61 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:09.599 speaking, like it looked good and the end of it was certainly kind 62 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.659 of exciting enough and the resolution was particularly good. 63 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.500 So uh, that's kind of how I'm feeling about it. 64 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.120 How do we feel the Daleks came off? 65 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:28.379 Well, I thought it was fun that we have a kind of kind of faux 66 00:03:28.379 --> 00:03:32.039 daleks in these ones, which have been put together, these these 67 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:37.199 were robotic daleks, which are, which are 3D printed here in, in 68 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:38.939 in Wales somewhere. 69 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:44.639 And that was fun because as I understand it, the new Dalek design 70 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.159 doesn't have operators in it, does it? 71 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:49.560 Like it, it, they don't have exes in it. 72 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:52.860 So in a way, it was sort of playing with itself a little bit 73 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:53.219 there. 74 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.120 It's sort of metafiction a bit saying, oh, look, we can, you know 75 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.759 where we're pushing this into new and interesting places. 76 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:02.759 And I think it had that touch of remembrance about it too, didn't 77 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:02.879 it? 78 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.539 where we've got this kind of question about purity and then 2 79 00:04:06.539 --> 00:04:08.280 Dalek factions going to war. 80 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:13.259 I think, you know, one thing after seeing 1000s of Daleks on a 81 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:17.459 production line and 1000s of other Daleks fly out of a spaceship. 82 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:19.920 It was perhaps a little underwhelming that we got kind of one 83 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:23.040 sequence with them battling on the bridge, and then it was all, it 84 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.259 all seemed to be wrapped up relatively quickly after that. 85 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.339 Um, so you would be, you could kind of be hoping for a little bit 86 00:04:29.339 --> 00:04:32.220 more from those big set pieces than we actually got. 87 00:04:32.699 --> 00:04:37.259 Yeah, I mean, I found that because they'd spent so long just kind 88 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:40.500 of following Christnoff's business dealings. 89 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.680 And, you know, like, I don't think the Daleks were introduced 90 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:47.639 until, like, about 35 minutes in and the whole thing doesn't 91 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.480 really go to hell until about 45 minutes in, that everything was a 92 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:52.620 little bit perfunctory. 93 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.740 Like the Daleks go mad and kind of shoot a bunch of people in 94 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:58.139 maybe 2 scenes lasting a minute or 2 each. 95 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:00.959 And then you've got that confrontation on the bridge. 96 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:06.180 I think perhaps there just weren't quite enough dialects in it. 97 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:07.980 What do you think, Todd? 98 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:15.060 Yeah, perhaps, I mean, for me, I guess the, the, The thing was 99 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:19.319 that it was always going to be the write out of Graham and Ryan. 100 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:23.040 And so I was really focussed on that and the Daleks were just sort 101 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:27.600 of more window dressing to keep everybody happy and, you know, um 102 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.779 so, I didn't mind their use at all. 103 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:32.160 I quite liked. 104 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:36.120 I mean, it was actually obvious that they were going to bring the 105 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.240 regular Daleks in to get rid of the new Daleks. 106 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:44.639 Um, And I liked that and I liked them having conversations with 107 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:45.899 themselves and other people. 108 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:46.920 So, yeah. 109 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:53.459 Um, I think this could have been a Christmas special and a New 110 00:05:53.459 --> 00:05:54.000 Year's special. 111 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:56.819 I think this could have been 2 episodes and give more time to 112 00:05:56.819 --> 00:05:59.819 those battle scenes, but at the same time, they would have been 113 00:05:59.819 --> 00:06:02.220 per we've padding battle scenes. 114 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:02.879 Yeah. 115 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.660 You know what I mean? 116 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:08.160 It would have been the sea devils storming the base, which look 117 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.000 you know, looks great, but you don't, in a way, you don't lose 118 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.800 anything without them. 119 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:20.819 But it's also a fact that we do get some massive scale set pieces 120 00:06:20.819 --> 00:06:23.879 which Chris Chipnell hasn't really done before in a way that 121 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.399 Russell T. Davies and sometimes Stephen Moffatt did. 122 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:28.439 And they really succeed here. 123 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:32.339 But those scenes like of the Daleks exterminating people at an 124 00:06:32.339 --> 00:06:36.540 airport are shot in such tight shots that it's obvious that Lee 125 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:40.920 Haven Jones, who does a spectacular job with this episode, only 126 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:41.879 has about 20 people. 127 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:44.519 And so that shoots it very tight. 128 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:48.360 But the trade-off for that is you do get them flying through the 129 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.939 sky and you get that shot. 130 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.899 Everyone online is loving of the doctor hanging out of the Tartar 131 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:56.879 surrounded by Dalek, swirling around her. 132 00:06:58.980 --> 00:06:59.879 Such a great shot. 133 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.240 It's a reverse genesis arc shot, isn't it, really? 134 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.040 So instead of coming out of a thing. 135 00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:05.939 They go into the thing. 136 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.540 But given that the technology is so much better now, it did look 137 00:07:09.540 --> 00:07:11.699 really quite spectacular, I think. 138 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.279 I mean, the whole episode looked spectacular. 139 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:18.540 I mean, I think that's one thing is that visually, the shows looks 140 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:19.560 as good as it's ever looked. 141 00:07:20.100 --> 00:07:24.240 The other daleks we get are the Dalek Mutants, they're the kind of 142 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.860 other variant in Gymnals, Dalek stories, and he features them 143 00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:32.040 really heavily in in resolution and this one. 144 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:35.459 And I like, I like this idea that you have to get rid of every 145 00:07:35.459 --> 00:07:41.279 single scrap of a Dalek, otherwise it's going to be able to reform 146 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:42.660 and and and come back. 147 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:47.759 And, and the scenes, the scenes in allegedly Osaka, with with Yaz 148 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.160 and Jack, where, where it attacks them. 149 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:53.339 I mean, that was a real, that's a real moment of tension and 150 00:07:53.339 --> 00:07:56.879 really shot very nicely and perform nicely, I think. 151 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:02.040 I actually think that, um, it's it's the slithean problem, though. 152 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:05.160 Like you've got these sort of fairly lamentable puppets, like 153 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.740 practical kind of puppets. 154 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:11.699 And then you've got the CG ones, which are actually really 155 00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:15.060 spectacular, but look very little like the actual puppets. 156 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.639 That's a real question for Doctor Who about whether it needs 157 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:18.720 prosthetics anymore. 158 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:21.540 And whether it should all be CG now. 159 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.300 I, you know, it was a question we were talking about over wine 160 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:28.980 over the 1st viewing was um, this, this, it's never been an easy 161 00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:32.759 mix between the prosthetics and the CG and maybe it's time for 162 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:34.320 them to back one particular horse. 163 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:39.000 I do reckon, though, that the, um, the puppet that's on Leo's back 164 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:39.899 is pretty good. 165 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.659 Like I think that that is actually pretty good. 166 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.559 Yeah. 167 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:46.139 And and I really like his performance. 168 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:49.980 Nathan Stuart Jarrett as Leo. 169 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.419 He creates a really good distinction between Leo and the Dalek. 170 00:08:54.539 --> 00:09:00.120 And, um, The actress playing Lynn last year, Hannah Ritchie, I 171 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.500 want to say, or Charlotte Ritchie. 172 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.720 Um, she did a good job as well. 173 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:06.600 But I actually feel he's a bit more vulnerable. 174 00:09:06.659 --> 00:09:08.879 His character is a bit more vulnerable than her. 175 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:13.320 I was reading Andrew Ellard's script notes and he sort of said 176 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.559 that it was a lost opportunity not to actually save him just to 177 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.820 sort of give him the sort of say with execution so that we didn't 178 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:22.500 have to deal with him for the rest of the episode. 179 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.740 But he was lovely. 180 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:28.740 I thought he was really terrific and early on too. 181 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.879 Like he was, look, I think Chris North was pretty fun, but I 182 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:34.620 thought he was more fun than Chris North. 183 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.019 I think you need a big presence like Chris North in one of these 184 00:09:40.019 --> 00:09:41.460 festive specials anyway. 185 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:45.240 Like, and I think he's a really charismatic kind of actor and, and 186 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.539 they had lightened his character a little bit to be a bit more fun 187 00:09:48.539 --> 00:09:49.799 throughout this whole thing. 188 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:56.220 And, um, I think, I think he was kind of, I was half, I, I half 189 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:59.340 wanted to see him killed and then I didn't want to really see him 190 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:02.340 running around with Jody's mob of people, but she always seems to 191 00:10:02.340 --> 00:10:04.620 run around with in the, in the 3rd act. 192 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:09.659 Um, but, but actually on reflection, I'm glad he stuck around and 193 00:10:09.659 --> 00:10:12.600 you know, there's the hint that he may not be in, it might not be 194 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.220 a final goodbye from him either yet. 195 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.080 Yeah, I think there'll be a 3rd one. 196 00:10:16.139 --> 00:10:17.279 For sure. 197 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:20.399 There just has to be because this is, you know, the criticism of 198 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:23.820 Arachnids in the UK, which, of course, that he just wanders off 199 00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:26.879 and, you know, you had the opportunity to get your Donald Trump 200 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.659 analogue eaten by a giant spider, and I don't know how you resist 201 00:10:30.659 --> 00:10:31.019 that. 202 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:34.080 You know, like, why would you forego that opportunity? 203 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:39.360 But there's dialogue in this that says, um, that the spider's 204 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:42.240 episode did put an end to his presidential bid and he did face 205 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:42.960 consequences. 206 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:47.940 But then we have the great reversal at the end of this story where 207 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:50.100 Graham's like, can you believe he gets off scot free? 208 00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:51.000 And Ryan's like, yes. 209 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:55.740 Yeah, yeah And for Chris Chipnall, who sometimes bludgeons us over 210 00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:59.700 the head with what the meaning of the episode is, I actually found 211 00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:03.299 that a really nice piece of writing and performance from Towson as 212 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:03.480 well. 213 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:08.519 Um, should we talk about the politics of it? 214 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.059 I think you're going to. 215 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:13.139 Well, I think I'm going to. 216 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.399 I have to say that I thought that it was weird. 217 00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:23.639 And obviously it was shot in, what, late 2019 or something before 218 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:26.340 you know, we broke the world and everything went to hell. 219 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:31.559 Um, And it just comes, it does come across as slightly weird. 220 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:36.179 So it sort of seems to be saying, you know, the Daleks are 221 00:11:36.179 --> 00:11:36.720 policemen. 222 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:41.580 Um, but it doesn't go anywhere with that or examine it in any sort 223 00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:42.779 of particular way. 224 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.019 It just sort of says, oh, you know, the police are a bit like 225 00:11:46.019 --> 00:11:50.580 Daleks, but we don't, you know, it's not, It's certainly not the 226 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.779 sort of sophisticated political satire that we get in aliens of 227 00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:59.519 London or or, you know, like some stories in the Moffat era as 228 00:11:59.519 --> 00:11:59.759 well. 229 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:01.740 I found it just a bit thin. 230 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.779 He doesn't tend to say anything about anything. 231 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:09.960 Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of early on seems to be making the 232 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:17.700 point that, um, uh, that, Power will resort to technology and to 233 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:22.500 force, uh, in order to maintain that power, but it did very 234 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:25.019 quickly gets um, left behind. 235 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.620 Yeah, yeah, there's almost a, there's almost a sort of 236 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:34.679 technocratic fascist state being set up in Joe's speech, a initial 237 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.279 speech, but like, I don't know what it's saying. 238 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:39.419 Do you know what I mean? 239 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.039 Like is, I don't know what it's saying. 240 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.220 It's almost like it's almost something that you could say in 241 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:46.980 America with its sort of massive police budgets and the 242 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:50.340 militarisation of the police and stuff like that, but it doesn't 243 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:51.360 seem to go there. 244 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:52.080 Yeah. 245 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:53.700 And that's the thing. 246 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:55.320 You have Yaz, who's a policeman. 247 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.159 You have Yaz, who's a police officer, I should say. 248 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:03.179 Um, And that isn't even mentioned here. 249 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.059 Like, if she's been in the Tartars for months, maybe mentioned 250 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:07.320 that she's lost her job. 251 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:10.620 At which point she can say, well, you know, the police aren't what 252 00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:11.340 I thought they were. 253 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:12.899 And that and... 254 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.480 This is the thing I find frustrating in these, is that I think 255 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.440 Chris Chipnell writes good stories, but someone else needs to take 256 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:28.139 a pass at the dialogue, and it's, it's not like, you know, when 257 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:32.100 episodes under Stephen Moffatt's tenure didn't work. 258 00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:35.820 You look at them and you go, okay, I can see what they're going 259 00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:40.019 for, but this would need major changes in order to work properly. 260 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.320 With Chris Chipnell episodes, it's like, oh, this would just need 261 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:47.820 like 2 or 3 lines and it would be excellent as opposed to just 262 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:49.559 good or decent. 263 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:50.100 Yeah. 264 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:54.299 And it's it's frustrating because you see Chris Chipnell 265 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:56.580 interviewed and he doesn't seem to have a huge chip on his 266 00:13:56.580 --> 00:13:57.000 shoulder. 267 00:13:57.059 --> 00:13:58.559 Like he seems to be a very nice person. 268 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:01.980 All the other writers talk about how collaborative the environment 269 00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:05.340 is, but it just seems like there's no one occasionally saying 270 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:09.000 actually, I think this is good but could just be a little bit 271 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:09.360 better. 272 00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:15.059 I think the dialogue where I notice it is in the emotional moments 273 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:16.799 in the slower character moments. 274 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:20.700 Uh, that's where I think it, uh, that's where I think it clunks 275 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:21.120 along a bit. 276 00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:24.240 Oh, I think it's shockingly poor, actually. 277 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:26.820 I have to say that I think that those scenes. 278 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:31.440 And Mandeep manages to hide it a little bit by being so incredibly 279 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.059 good in that scene with Jack. 280 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.120 But I do think that scene with Jack is complete nonsense from 281 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:36.899 beginning to end. 282 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.200 And while it's trying to become, like, you don't choose when to 283 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:44.639 leave the doctor, except you will in about like half an hour's 284 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:48.059 time at the end of the episode where 2 people choose to leave the 285 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:48.419 doctor. 286 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:49.679 Like, it's nonsense. 287 00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:50.460 It's nonsense. 288 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:51.659 And the one, yeah. 289 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.080 No, no, no, Jack, the doctor just constantly dumps you. 290 00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.159 Yeah that's right. 291 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:57.059 That's just you. 292 00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.879 It's the difference, not that... 293 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.799 That's actually a really good point. 294 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:05.340 I just think the difference might be that Jack and Yaz are kind of 295 00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:10.860 in love with the doctor. in a way that Ryan and Graham are not. 296 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:15.000 So they can't ever leave the doctor because in fact, they have a 297 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:19.259 much greater emotional attachment to her. than Ryan and Graham 298 00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:21.899 doing the same way that Jack is kind of like, well, I'll never be 299 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:26.220 free of the doctor because I've always sort of, um, I've always 300 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.740 always sort of linked to him slash her in that way. 301 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:34.259 I think the other scene too, the bookends that, which is, is the 302 00:15:34.259 --> 00:15:40.139 doctor and Ryan, is equally terrible, and you can see both actors 303 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:42.840 struggling to kind of work out how to play it. 304 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:49.440 Um, uh, you know, I, I do think that, that, it's a shame that we 305 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:54.779 haven't got really very well drawn relationships among all those 306 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:59.220 characters and we tend to just be told, you know, we don't tend to 307 00:15:59.220 --> 00:15:59.700 see it. 308 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.100 It's it's never subtextual. 309 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:02.879 It's just the text. 310 00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:06.600 It's a little bit like, was it Ascension of the Cybermen, where 311 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.320 Graham said how impressive he thought Yaz was, and it's kind of 312 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:11.940 like, well, where did that come from? 313 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.919 You know, like she is impressive, but, you know, um, Todd, how did 314 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:23.100 you feel we handled the departure of the companions? 315 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:30.000 I'm quite liked that, I mean, it was I quite liked Ryan's 316 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:30.419 departure. 317 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:31.139 I thought. 318 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:35.879 Um, it was Being signposted for a while. 319 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:36.720 I guess. 320 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:41.100 Um, and I actually didn't mind his scene with um, Jody. 321 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:46.200 Um, I felt that that you could tell they were both on the same 322 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:50.220 page, knowing that he was headed for the door at some point. 323 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:51.419 Yeah. 324 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.620 I guess with Graham. 325 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.279 I thought Graham was really underused in this episode and for him 326 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.460 then just to sort of stay behind because Ryan's not coming. 327 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.679 I don't know whether that was necessary. 328 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.079 Completely true to the character. 329 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.000 You may disagree. 330 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:06.779 I felt. 331 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:09.660 Okay, that he's made that decision. 332 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.519 Um, He could have easily, quite easily have stayed as well and 333 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.420 said, yeah, it's down on your own 2 feet, um, for a bit and I'll 334 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:19.200 see you when you get back. 335 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:19.740 I don't know. 336 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.099 I, But I do like the fact that they weren't killed off or made 337 00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:25.920 into some sort of travel with the mortals around the universe. 338 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.599 It's actually the 1st normal companion departure, isn't it? 339 00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:32.940 Martha maybe, but she's sort of traumatised. 340 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.420 But it's the 1st time people say actually we're kind of done 341 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:36.720 here. 342 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:38.519 Thanks. it's been fun. 343 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:42.420 And it is, I think it is sort of well signposted at the 344 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:42.839 beginning. 345 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:47.940 Like you can tell because Ryan and Graham have got on with their 346 00:17:47.940 --> 00:17:51.779 lives for the last 10 months that they've actually started to see 347 00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:56.519 how the world works without the doctor and you can see Yaz, who's 348 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:01.259 got her madness wall of, she just needed some red thread. 349 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:01.799 Yeah. 350 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.700 You know, she's got her paranoia wall on the, in the, in, uh 351 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:06.420 Ruth. 352 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.200 Is it Ruth Darnus? 353 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.059 No, no, it's just a spare. 354 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.019 It's the spare. 355 00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:12.180 It's the spare tartars that we killed. 356 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.079 That we kill. 357 00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:15.720 Yeah, I mean, the doctor kills one of... 358 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:21.900 Possibly the only 4 Tartuses in the universe. in order to stop the 359 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:26.220 Daleks in, like a, oh, what is it, a Peter Rabbit sort of moment? 360 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.099 Like, oh, I bet you can't come in here and kill me. 361 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:32.579 She just doesn't even have any bedrooms, right? 362 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:35.819 Oh, where's Nissa and Tegan's room? 363 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:43.079 That's the other thing about that conversation between Ryan and 364 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.180 the doctor. 365 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.859 It takes 4 minutes to get to Osaka and presumably Chris North and 366 00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:54.180 Graham are in Jack's suites at the cocktail bar. 367 00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:55.859 That is right. 368 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.960 I thought when I watched, like, where the hell are they? 369 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:03.299 I like to think that Graham is off showing him that newspaper 370 00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.880 machine where he got the coupons to go to Orphan 55. 371 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.000 I hope it'll happen again. 372 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:10.079 Go there now. 373 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:14.279 We talked a bit about the Chris North character. 374 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.640 I didn't like how stupid he was when he was in the TARDIS and 375 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.799 couldn't really understand. 376 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:23.759 Like, at some points he was quite funny and and and used well. 377 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:24.720 Other points, I just thought, oh. 378 00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:27.420 Really, that's what we're going for. 379 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.039 Oh, no, it's a complaint, but I think he has 2 really brilliant 380 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.059 lines, and the one is when we learn that all of the people 381 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:40.019 operating the factory have been sort of liquidised and fed to the 382 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:43.799 Daleks, and he goes, you know, this is a PR disaster, I think 383 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:44.940 spectacular. 384 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.559 And then, and then it, it's like one of the uh, doctor's companion 385 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.019 says, oh, give us a reason why we should save you. 386 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:53.579 And he just goes, money. 387 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.519 Like, I actually think part of the problem with the with the 388 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.180 cibnolia is that it doesn't, everyone is playing it too 389 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:06.900 particularly Tosen, but everyone is sort of playing it, isn't 390 00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:07.920 playing it quite big enough. 391 00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:14.220 Um, and he, he, he is actually doing that a bit. 392 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.440 And so I sort of quite liked him. 393 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:19.980 I wasn't a big fan of just watching his business dealings for half 394 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.299 an hour at the beginning of the episode. 395 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:26.400 I did like the line where he was talking about, they've got stunt 396 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.119 Dalek weapons in at that very beginning to test on the stunt 397 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.839 protesters and he says, you know, she says we, they're not, it's 398 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.059 not real gas and he goes, yeah, but I still think that could have 399 00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:36.599 been fun. 400 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.180 Trumpy in line. 401 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:44.279 That's kind of interesting too, because it's clear that Chibnall 402 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.859 can write some fun engaging dialogue. 403 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:51.240 And I think in the fast moving scenes, in, in the, in the sort of 404 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:55.019 um, lots of people around, lots of things happening, those scenes 405 00:20:55.019 --> 00:21:00.240 the dialogue is not so awful as it is when he's just doing those 2 406 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.980 people having a DNM moment together. 407 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.539 Yeah. 408 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.019 I think is, I'm, I'm, I'm going to dissent and say, I actually 409 00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:09.539 quite like the 2 DNM conversations. 410 00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:14.099 I, I, the problem I have with the, the Ryan and the doctor one is 411 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:18.900 it covers some of the same ground as the Ruth doctor and doctor 412 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:23.940 conversation in the Matrix last episode, but it also brings home 413 00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:27.180 to me that, because I was thinking, hold on, why is the doctor 414 00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:29.039 still thinking about this after 19 years? 415 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:35.339 And it's, it goes back to the doctor needs companions and needs 416 00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.059 humans. 417 00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:41.880 And, you know, Matt Smith needed Amy and Rory, like with the 418 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.519 doctor, the widow in the wardrobe, he's pretending like he's 419 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.619 functional and Claire's skin is like, no, you're not. 420 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:50.039 You are like, just go find your friends and have Christmas dinner 421 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:50.579 you tool. 422 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.079 Um And I think that's kind of what it is here in that. 423 00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:01.200 The doctor is doing that thing that some fans, hello, me, do, and 424 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.720 it's like, I must come up with a theory that fits all these facts 425 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.839 and Ryan cuts through it and says, no, you just run around saving 426 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:07.680 people in a blue box. 427 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:08.400 Yeah. 428 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.599 You know, that, what, nothing takes anything away from that. 429 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:15.900 And I think that's a really, I think that's a really sweet 430 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:16.440 moment. 431 00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:22.740 The dialogue I had a big problem with is um, is Prime Minister Joe 432 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:25.079 who's Joe Patterson. 433 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:27.000 It's an easy name to remember, but I keep forgetting it. 434 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:32.519 Um, Her line of dialogue of something like if anyone finds out 435 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.119 that I'm the one who helped you steal the dialect after killing 436 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.200 the driver in a layby and stuffing him in a in stuffing him in a 437 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.559 van and the tea truck had comic sands on the outside. 438 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:44.759 I noticed that. 439 00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:47.819 But, you know, that kind of fits because it's a fake tea truck. 440 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:53.160 Um, the other, and the other line I really hated in that, um, in 441 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.319 that the workers have been fed and popped. 442 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:58.619 It's like, one, the Dalek's like, the workers were made. 443 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.000 And I'm like, redundant? 444 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:01.920 Unnecessary. 445 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.400 Okay, plane thieves, got it? 446 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:10.019 Um, but then Jack's like, you popped the workers and fed them to 447 00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:10.859 it's like, yes, we get that. 448 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.359 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 449 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.200 Who pulled them? 450 00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:13.980 Do you think? 451 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:16.619 Got some contractors in? 452 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.099 Yeah. 453 00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:20.819 Well, and, you know, that's a metaphor for the episode because you 454 00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:23.039 get the contractors in to pulp the old workers, but then you got 455 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.500 to pulp the contractors. 456 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.240 So it's a thing. 457 00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:29.400 Now, one thing that we haven't talked about is prison. 458 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:34.920 And I think that Jody's in prison longer than 19 years. 459 00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:39.599 So Jack says that it takes, it took him 19 years to get to be in 460 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.559 the cell next to her. 461 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.980 And when she says it's been a rough few decades, I think she's 462 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:45.000 been there for a long time. 463 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.220 So why doesn't she try to escape? 464 00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.180 Because she's having a, she's having a good time ruminating and 465 00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:58.200 feeling sorry for herself, which look, Tom Baker does in Brain of 466 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:02.339 Morbius, Colin Baker does, threatens to do with the twin dilemma. 467 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:05.880 It's like without any, without any humans around, she's like, oh 468 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.519 well, why shouldn't I just sit here for 500 years and think about 469 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:08.759 it? 470 00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:12.180 At least I'm not on an annoying planet called Christmas. 471 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.940 How did you find the prison scenes, Todd? 472 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.440 They were fine to quote myself. 473 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:24.900 What I actually really enjoyed was seeing other creatures from the 474 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:25.319 past. 475 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:31.859 And although, you know, the doctors, like, the doctor for her 476 00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:34.980 crimes and then, but then we've got like a weeping angel and I did 477 00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:36.660 burst out laughing when I saw the pating. 478 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:37.799 I just thought that was wonderful. 479 00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:42.480 What about, at the very end, so she's calling it tiny, but Ryan 480 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.940 refers to it as the mighty patini. 481 00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:47.700 Go on, Todd. 482 00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:53.339 Yeah, so I didn't mind that, but I just thought, and I guess it 483 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.059 comes back to this. 484 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:58.859 They needed her to be away from Ryan and and Graham for 10 485 00:24:58.859 --> 00:24:59.220 months. 486 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.039 So it's almost like he reverse engineers, like we're going to 487 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:02.519 write him out. 488 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:06.359 So let's have the doctor be in prison, and then how do we get her 489 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:06.900 out of prison? 490 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.720 Oh, well, let's bring in this character, like, there's all these. 491 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:16.559 I don't know, utterly predictable or easy solutions to the 492 00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.799 problems, that sort of just, if I can put it that way, that I kind 493 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:25.259 of think in Stephen Moffat's time or um, Russell's time, it would 494 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:30.660 be, uh, you'd be surprised, whereas I'm never quite, Surprised 495 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.119 were like, oh, oh, that makes logical sense. 496 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:37.140 I mean, he, He answered virtually all of my questions in the 497 00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:38.279 episode about how things work. 498 00:25:38.339 --> 00:25:40.440 So I was quite satisfied with that. 499 00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:45.180 Um, And, you know, having Jack there to give us references to 500 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:48.299 companions and other people passed is always a nice little 501 00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:50.339 sprinkling of nostalgia. 502 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.420 Um, But why stay in there for that long? 503 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.140 I mean, a doctor break out, like, doesn't she? 504 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.019 What how did it change her? 505 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:06.059 Like, what is the ordeal in prison that means that she's a 506 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:08.640 different person when she comes out of it than when she went into 507 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:08.940 it? 508 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.519 In fact, there's there's none of that at all. 509 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:13.920 It's just she's exactly the same sort of person. 510 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:19.680 So it does really seem like it was just marking time and and um, uh 511 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:24.180 it would have been nice if we could have, if for the 3 companions 512 00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.819 sake, they could have looked at this person who has, you know 513 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:30.180 spent decades away and noticed that she has changed in some way. 514 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.460 Yeah, that she hasn't. 515 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.000 No, and they, and he, she never says anything and maybe that's 516 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:36.299 nice. 517 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.720 It's nice to have her not be self-pitying about it afterwards. 518 00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:43.140 But I think it's a mistake to have the doctor turn up and have 519 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.519 everyone cross at her. 520 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:47.339 You know, like we should be excited that she's entered the story 521 00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:49.019 and we're kind of not. 522 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.960 And I do think that the prison break had, there was no nothing 523 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:52.980 clever to it. 524 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.880 Like, one of the things that I miss is when the doctor does 525 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.019 something super clever. 526 00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.640 And in this story, she gets rescued by someone else who brings the 527 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.240 you know, escaping from prison device with him. 528 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:07.740 So there's nothing. 529 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.140 There's no heist, there's no distract the guards. 530 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:11.099 There's really nothing. 531 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.460 It is a fun sequence, like the ball thing. 532 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:18.720 Um, and in in a sort of 45 minute stretch where we're pretty 533 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.660 starved of action, that is quite welcome, I think. 534 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:25.740 Um, And again, you know, like we spend a lot of time just going 535 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:28.319 around finding out what happens and then there's a clever thing 536 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.400 that we don't see her come up with at the end. 537 00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:33.420 Do you know what I mean? 538 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.740 There is a kind of, there's a straightforwardness to it, which I 539 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:41.339 actually think is, you know, a bit unambitious, I guess. 540 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:42.660 I agree with you. 541 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.859 I think there's some narrative cleverness in the fact that the 2nd 542 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:50.099 TARDIS has been sitting there unnoticed throughout most of the 543 00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:54.480 episode, it's there and then she uses it at the end and she 544 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.200 disguises it. 545 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.900 And I think that's got an element of cleverness in it. 546 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:01.319 But overall, you do get the sense after watching the episode of 547 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:04.920 Jody spending a lot of time in the Tartist pressing buttons. 548 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:06.000 Yeah. 549 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:12.000 And where she doesn't get a big moment towards the end where she 550 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.940 gets to confront it, confront the villains and kind of bring 551 00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:18.900 everything to a close, except she's a hologram when she's talking 552 00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:22.259 to the SAS Starlex in the old TARDIS. 553 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.099 So there's a real sense of her being distanced from all the 554 00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:26.519 action. 555 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:28.140 Yeah. 556 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:29.339 I mean, I agree with you. 557 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.700 That moment, using that TARDIS is the clever moment. 558 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.660 But I just want more clever moments rather than what I can see has 559 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:37.440 been obvious. 560 00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:43.440 And um, straightforwardness to plotting because it all works in 561 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.319 this perfunctory to get us to the end so that 2 companions will 562 00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:46.740 leap. 563 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.400 I mean, I guess that's my one criticism. 564 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.299 Don't get me wrong. 565 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.259 I did enjoy it. 566 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.920 It was fine. 567 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:58.319 Um, But I'm not in love with the episode, but I thought there were 568 00:28:58.319 --> 00:28:59.099 some good moments. 569 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.079 Hmm. 570 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:07.319 Um, I will say that knowing that Graham and Ryan were leaving, now 571 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:12.000 of course, I put out a mad theory on YouTube, Graham was going to 572 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.000 be the doctor and his personality was hidden inside his West Ham 573 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.640 badge because it said West Ham of Duro and he was going to travel 574 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.380 around the universe with his grandson. 575 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.059 Might still happen, Brendan. 576 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.740 It might still happen. 577 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:28.019 As my friends and friends of the podcast, Scott and Anson pointed 578 00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:31.019 out, little bit death of personality for Graham, though. 579 00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:32.220 It's like, yep, fair enough. 580 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.000 Um, But because that announcement was made, a lot of people were 581 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.240 like, oh, they're going to be exterminated by Daleks because it's 582 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:40.140 a Dalek story. 583 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.980 And when they're running around on the ship, I was, I had, like 584 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:46.500 been saying for months, they're not going to, Chris Chibnall is 585 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:47.759 not going to kill his companions. 586 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.859 That's Moffat's thing. kind of thing. 587 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.839 Um, But when they're running around on the ship, I'm like, actually 588 00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:59.640 like this, it created genuine suspense in me in a way that doesn't 589 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.339 often happen with Doctor Who because you know everyone's going to 590 00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:02.880 get out okay. 591 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:05.160 It's like, well, actually, no, I know this is their departure 592 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:05.640 story. 593 00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:08.819 And yeah, if Graham was killed, I think that would be enough for 594 00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:10.380 Ryan to say, uh no. 595 00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:17.160 In fact, I think Yaz's advice to them, which is make sure that you 596 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:21.299 you have to detonate the bombs after you're on your way back. you 597 00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:24.119 know, like he's deliberately setting that up to be a bit of peril 598 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:25.380 for those 2 in particular. 599 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.160 Yeah. 600 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.960 All right. 601 00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:32.400 Well, look, I'm super aware of the need to keep this episode 602 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.839 shorter than the eventual 2025 flight through entirety episode 603 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:42.059 that we're going to do once we've had time to actually come up 604 00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:43.859 with considered opinions. 605 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.460 So we might wind it up there. 606 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.299 I want to plug flights through entirety. 607 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.220 We have just finished the 2009 specials, and if you're listening 608 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:01.200 to this today, There will be a big retrospective, thanks in very 609 00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.339 large part to Todd, coming out, I think, probably this Friday, and 610 00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:08.819 then, of course, we'll do season 5 later in the year. 611 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.119 Um, Brendan, I think you have things to plug. 612 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:12.839 I do. 613 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:16.500 My YouTube channel is back, so you can check out Brandy Bongos, and 614 00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:20.519 from the end of this month, I will be uploading new videos in my 615 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:23.700 say something nice series where I say something nice about every 616 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:24.059 episode. 617 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.180 And thankfully, the ratings for this one look very healthy. 618 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.940 So I'm not going to have to go back and slot it in between 2 619 00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:31.019 episodes I've already done. 620 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.480 Thank you, the timeless children. 621 00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.460 No one wants that. 622 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.940 All right, Johnny, you've got nothing to plug. 623 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:39.359 Is that in? 624 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.240 Uh, nothing new to plug, but you can see, you can read everything 625 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.480 I've ever thought and written about Doctor Who on Randomhooness 626 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.480 com. 627 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.700 Brilliant. that's awesome All right, so I guess all that remains 628 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:54.779 is for me to say, until next time, remember you can't eat the cage 629 00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:58.680 believe me, I've tried, and I spent the next week flossing with an 630 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:00.059 angle grinder. 631 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.980 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 632 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:04.140 You can eat the harness though. 633 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:04.500 Good night. 634 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.039 Good night. 635 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:07.140 6.7 out of 10. 636 00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:07.920 Good night.