WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:51:29 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.400 Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to Jody and Terra, the only Doctor Who flash cast that serves as a statement on modern society. 2 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:11.220 Ooh, isn't modern society awful. 3 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:12.539 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:13.800 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:14.939 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:16.079 And I'm Johnny. 7 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:30.660 So we are just over 24 hours away from our 1st viewing of the festive special for 2021, which is called something, Revolution of the Daleks. 8 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:38.700 And I thought we'd begin by just sort of going around the table and getting everyone sort of 1st impressions. 9 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:40.979 Actually, I've got no idea what Johnny thinks of this. 10 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:41.820 So let's start with him. 11 00:00:41.939 --> 00:00:44.399 Oh, I really enjoyed it. 12 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:52.079 And partly because I always enjoy festive specials because I'm usually watching them with friends and wine and so they nearly always. 13 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:55.500 They are nearly always come off very, very well indeed. 14 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:06.000 Um, but this was, this was good and it left me with the feeling that Chipnell knows how to do those those big festive specials pretty well. 15 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:09.239 He's done 3 of them now, and I think they've all come off. 16 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:13.260 Um, relatively, relatively nicely. 17 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:18.420 And I think just scanning over it briefly before I jumped on air. 18 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:31.739 I think the thing it has to do is be fast and slow all the time, you know, it has to move from action piece to slow sort of character moments and has to sort of juggle that throughout the entire thing. 19 00:01:31.739 --> 00:01:34.560 And, um, no, I thought it, I thought it did pretty well. 20 00:01:34.859 --> 00:01:36.420 Brilliant. 21 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:37.680 Todd, how about you? 22 00:01:37.739 --> 00:01:39.480 It was fine. 23 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:55.920 And uh, Chris Chibnol episode that doesn't annoy me with dialogue or plot points or uh, any Jody episode that where she doesn't annoy me is actually a good episode and she was good and I really loved her pet talk to the Daleks and some of her quieter moments. 24 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:02.700 So I actually thought, yeah, this was, um, yeah, I liked it. 25 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.140 Um, I don't know what else to say. 26 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:08.520 Nope, that's good. 27 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.340 We'll get back to more things in a minute, Brendan. 28 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:13.020 Um, it's funny. 29 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.500 Sort of after it finished, I felt like I didn't really enjoy it all that much. 30 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:21.599 And then when I watched it again, I'm like, no, I actually really quite enjoyed this. 31 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:26.520 I did have problems with it, which I'm sure we'll discuss later on here. 32 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:30.780 But overall, I did quite enjoy it. 33 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:45.360 I thought it used most of the characters really well, and I thought it was another cracking performance from Jody, who in The Timeless Children, which I've got, you know, big problems with the structure of, I couldn't fault her performance in that, and she's still bringing that same level. 34 00:02:46.259 --> 00:02:51.300 I have to say that I was initially pretty bored with it. 35 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:57.599 And particularly, I still think that it takes far, far too long to get to the point. 36 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:00.840 But I think there's some fun to be had. 37 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:12.659 Um, And yeah, some things actively annoyed me, but generally speaking, like it looked good and the end of it was certainly kind of exciting enough and the resolution was particularly good. 38 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.500 So uh, that's kind of how I'm feeling about it. 39 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.120 How do we feel the Daleks came off? 40 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:38.939 Well, I thought it was fun that we have a kind of kind of faux daleks in these ones, which have been put together, these these were robotic daleks, which are, which are 3D printed here in, in, in Wales somewhere. 41 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:47.159 And that was fun because as I understand it, the new Dalek design doesn't have operators in it, does it? 42 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:49.560 Like it, it, they don't have exes in it. 43 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:53.219 So in a way, it was sort of playing with itself a little bit there. 44 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:59.759 It's sort of metafiction a bit saying, oh, look, we can, you know, where we're pushing this into new and interesting places. 45 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:02.879 And I think it had that touch of remembrance about it too, didn't it? 46 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:08.280 where we've got this kind of question about purity and then 2 Dalek factions going to war. 47 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:17.459 I think, you know, one thing after seeing 1000s of Daleks on a production line and 1000s of other Daleks fly out of a spaceship. 48 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:25.259 It was perhaps a little underwhelming that we got kind of one sequence with them battling on the bridge, and then it was all, it all seemed to be wrapped up relatively quickly after that. 49 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:32.220 Um, so you would be, you could kind of be hoping for a little bit more from those big set pieces than we actually got. 50 00:04:32.699 --> 00:04:40.500 Yeah, I mean, I found that because they'd spent so long just kind of following Christnoff's business dealings. 51 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:52.620 And, you know, like, I don't think the Daleks were introduced until, like, about 35 minutes in and the whole thing doesn't really go to hell until about 45 minutes in, that everything was a little bit perfunctory. 52 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:58.139 Like the Daleks go mad and kind of shoot a bunch of people in maybe 2 scenes lasting a minute or 2 each. 53 00:04:58.139 --> 00:05:00.959 And then you've got that confrontation on the bridge. 54 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:06.180 I think perhaps there just weren't quite enough dialects in it. 55 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:07.980 What do you think, Todd? 56 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:19.319 Yeah, perhaps, I mean, for me, I guess the, the, The thing was that it was always going to be the write out of Graham and Ryan. 57 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:30.779 And so I was really focussed on that and the Daleks were just sort of more window dressing to keep everybody happy and, you know, um, so, I didn't mind their use at all. 58 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:32.160 I quite liked. 59 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:39.240 I mean, it was actually obvious that they were going to bring the regular Daleks in to get rid of the new Daleks. 60 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:45.899 Um, And I liked that and I liked them having conversations with themselves and other people. 61 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:46.920 So, yeah. 62 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:54.000 Um, I think this could have been a Christmas special and a New Year's special. 63 00:05:54.060 --> 00:06:02.220 I think this could have been 2 episodes and give more time to those battle scenes, but at the same time, they would have been per we've padding battle scenes. 64 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:02.879 Yeah. 65 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.660 You know what I mean? 66 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:13.800 It would have been the sea devils storming the base, which look, you know, looks great, but you don't, in a way, you don't lose anything without them. 67 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:26.399 But it's also a fact that we do get some massive scale set pieces, which Chris Chipnell hasn't really done before in a way that Russell T. Davies and sometimes Stephen Moffatt did. 68 00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:28.439 And they really succeed here. 69 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:41.879 But those scenes like of the Daleks exterminating people at an airport are shot in such tight shots that it's obvious that Lee Haven Jones, who does a spectacular job with this episode, only has about 20 people. 70 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:44.519 And so that shoots it very tight. 71 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:50.939 But the trade-off for that is you do get them flying through the sky and you get that shot. 72 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:56.879 Everyone online is loving of the doctor hanging out of the Tartar, surrounded by Dalek, swirling around her. 73 00:06:58.980 --> 00:06:59.879 Such a great shot. 74 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.240 It's a reverse genesis arc shot, isn't it, really? 75 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.040 So instead of coming out of a thing. 76 00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:05.939 They go into the thing. 77 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:11.699 But given that the technology is so much better now, it did look really quite spectacular, I think. 78 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.279 I mean, the whole episode looked spectacular. 79 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:19.560 I mean, I think that's one thing is that visually, the shows looks as good as it's ever looked. 80 00:07:20.100 --> 00:07:32.040 The other daleks we get are the Dalek Mutants, they're the kind of other variant in Gymnals, Dalek stories, and he features them really heavily in in resolution and this one. 81 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:42.660 And I like, I like this idea that you have to get rid of every single scrap of a Dalek, otherwise it's going to be able to reform and and and come back. 82 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:50.160 And, and the scenes, the scenes in allegedly Osaka, with with Yaz and Jack, where, where it attacks them. 83 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:56.879 I mean, that was a real, that's a real moment of tension and really shot very nicely and perform nicely, I think. 84 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:02.040 I actually think that, um, it's it's the slithean problem, though. 85 00:08:02.100 --> 00:08:07.740 Like you've got these sort of fairly lamentable puppets, like practical kind of puppets. 86 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:15.060 And then you've got the CG ones, which are actually really spectacular, but look very little like the actual puppets. 87 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.720 That's a real question for Doctor Who about whether it needs prosthetics anymore. 88 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:21.540 And whether it should all be CG now. 89 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:34.320 I, you know, it was a question we were talking about over wine over the 1st viewing was um, this, this, it's never been an easy mix between the prosthetics and the CG and maybe it's time for them to back one particular horse. 90 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:39.899 I do reckon, though, that the, um, the puppet that's on Leo's back is pretty good. 91 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.659 Like I think that that is actually pretty good. 92 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.559 Yeah. 93 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:46.139 And and I really like his performance. 94 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:49.980 Nathan Stuart Jarrett as Leo. 95 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.419 He creates a really good distinction between Leo and the Dalek. 96 00:08:54.539 --> 00:09:01.500 And, um, The actress playing Lynn last year, Hannah Ritchie, I want to say, or Charlotte Ritchie. 97 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.720 Um, she did a good job as well. 98 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:06.600 But I actually feel he's a bit more vulnerable. 99 00:09:06.659 --> 00:09:08.879 His character is a bit more vulnerable than her. 100 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:22.500 I was reading Andrew Ellard's script notes and he sort of said that it was a lost opportunity not to actually save him just to sort of give him the sort of say with execution so that we didn't have to deal with him for the rest of the episode. 101 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.740 But he was lovely. 102 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:28.740 I thought he was really terrific and early on too. 103 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:34.620 Like he was, look, I think Chris North was pretty fun, but I thought he was more fun than Chris North. 104 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:41.460 I think you need a big presence like Chris North in one of these festive specials anyway. 105 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:49.799 Like, and I think he's a really charismatic kind of actor and, and they had lightened his character a little bit to be a bit more fun throughout this whole thing. 106 00:09:49.799 --> 00:10:04.620 And, um, I think, I think he was kind of, I was half, I, I half wanted to see him killed and then I didn't want to really see him running around with Jody's mob of people, but she always seems to run around with in the, in the 3rd act. 107 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:14.220 Um, but, but actually on reflection, I'm glad he stuck around and, you know, there's the hint that he may not be in, it might not be a final goodbye from him either yet. 108 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.080 Yeah, I think there'll be a 3rd one. 109 00:10:16.139 --> 00:10:17.279 For sure. 110 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:31.019 There just has to be because this is, you know, the criticism of Arachnids in the UK, which, of course, that he just wanders off and, you know, you had the opportunity to get your Donald Trump analogue eaten by a giant spider, and I don't know how you resist that. 111 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:34.080 You know, like, why would you forego that opportunity? 112 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:42.960 But there's dialogue in this that says, um, that the spider's episode did put an end to his presidential bid and he did face consequences. 113 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:50.100 But then we have the great reversal at the end of this story where Graham's like, can you believe he gets off scot free? 114 00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:51.000 And Ryan's like, yes. 115 00:10:51.059 --> 00:11:03.480 Yeah, yeah And for Chris Chipnall, who sometimes bludgeons us over the head with what the meaning of the episode is, I actually found that a really nice piece of writing and performance from Towson as well. 116 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:08.519 Um, should we talk about the politics of it? 117 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.059 I think you're going to. 118 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:13.139 Well, I think I'm going to. 119 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.399 I have to say that I thought that it was weird. 120 00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:26.340 And obviously it was shot in, what, late 2019 or something before, you know, we broke the world and everything went to hell. 121 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:31.559 Um, And it just comes, it does come across as slightly weird. 122 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:36.720 So it sort of seems to be saying, you know, the Daleks are policemen. 123 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:42.779 Um, but it doesn't go anywhere with that or examine it in any sort of particular way. 124 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:59.759 It just sort of says, oh, you know, the police are a bit like Daleks, but we don't, you know, it's not, It's certainly not the sort of sophisticated political satire that we get in aliens of London or or, you know, like some stories in the Moffat era as well. 125 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:01.740 I found it just a bit thin. 126 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.779 He doesn't tend to say anything about anything. 127 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:25.019 Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of early on seems to be making the point that, um, uh, that, Power will resort to technology and to force, uh, in order to maintain that power, but it did very quickly gets um, left behind. 128 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:38.279 Yeah, yeah, there's almost a, there's almost a sort of technocratic fascist state being set up in Joe's speech, a initial speech, but like, I don't know what it's saying. 129 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:39.419 Do you know what I mean? 130 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.039 Like is, I don't know what it's saying. 131 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:51.360 It's almost like it's almost something that you could say in America with its sort of massive police budgets and the militarisation of the police and stuff like that, but it doesn't seem to go there. 132 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:52.080 Yeah. 133 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:53.700 And that's the thing. 134 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:55.320 You have Yaz, who's a policeman. 135 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.159 You have Yaz, who's a police officer, I should say. 136 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:03.179 Um, And that isn't even mentioned here. 137 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.320 Like, if she's been in the Tartars for months, maybe mentioned that she's lost her job. 138 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:11.340 At which point she can say, well, you know, the police aren't what I thought they were. 139 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:12.899 And that and... 140 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:32.100 This is the thing I find frustrating in these, is that I think Chris Chipnell writes good stories, but someone else needs to take a pass at the dialogue, and it's, it's not like, you know, when episodes under Stephen Moffatt's tenure didn't work. 141 00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:40.019 You look at them and you go, okay, I can see what they're going for, but this would need major changes in order to work properly. 142 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:49.559 With Chris Chipnell episodes, it's like, oh, this would just need like 2 or 3 lines and it would be excellent as opposed to just good or decent. 143 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:50.100 Yeah. 144 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:57.000 And it's it's frustrating because you see Chris Chipnell interviewed and he doesn't seem to have a huge chip on his shoulder. 145 00:13:57.059 --> 00:13:58.559 Like he seems to be a very nice person. 146 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:09.360 All the other writers talk about how collaborative the environment is, but it just seems like there's no one occasionally saying, actually, I think this is good but could just be a little bit better. 147 00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:16.799 I think the dialogue where I notice it is in the emotional moments, in the slower character moments. 148 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:21.120 Uh, that's where I think it, uh, that's where I think it clunks along a bit. 149 00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:24.240 Oh, I think it's shockingly poor, actually. 150 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:26.820 I have to say that I think that those scenes. 151 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:33.059 And Mandeep manages to hide it a little bit by being so incredibly good in that scene with Jack. 152 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.899 But I do think that scene with Jack is complete nonsense from beginning to end. 153 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:48.419 And while it's trying to become, like, you don't choose when to leave the doctor, except you will in about like half an hour's time at the end of the episode where 2 people choose to leave the doctor. 154 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:49.679 Like, it's nonsense. 155 00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:50.460 It's nonsense. 156 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:51.659 And the one, yeah. 157 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.080 No, no, no, Jack, the doctor just constantly dumps you. 158 00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.159 Yeah that's right. 159 00:14:56.220 --> 00:14:57.059 That's just you. 160 00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.879 It's the difference, not that... 161 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.799 That's actually a really good point. 162 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:10.860 I just think the difference might be that Jack and Yaz are kind of in love with the doctor. in a way that Ryan and Graham are not. 163 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:28.740 So they can't ever leave the doctor because in fact, they have a much greater emotional attachment to her. than Ryan and Graham doing the same way that Jack is kind of like, well, I'll never be free of the doctor because I've always sort of, um, I've always, always sort of linked to him slash her in that way. 164 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:42.840 I think the other scene too, the bookends that, which is, is the doctor and Ryan, is equally terrible, and you can see both actors struggling to kind of work out how to play it. 165 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:59.700 Um, uh, you know, I, I do think that, that, it's a shame that we haven't got really very well drawn relationships among all those characters and we tend to just be told, you know, we don't tend to see it. 166 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.100 It's it's never subtextual. 167 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:02.879 It's just the text. 168 00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:11.940 It's a little bit like, was it Ascension of the Cybermen, where Graham said how impressive he thought Yaz was, and it's kind of like, well, where did that come from? 169 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:23.100 You know, like she is impressive, but, you know, um, Todd, how did you feel we handled the departure of the companions? 170 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:30.419 I'm quite liked that, I mean, it was I quite liked Ryan's departure. 171 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:31.139 I thought. 172 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:35.879 Um, it was Being signposted for a while. 173 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:36.720 I guess. 174 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:41.100 Um, and I actually didn't mind his scene with um, Jody. 175 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:50.220 Um, I felt that that you could tell they were both on the same page, knowing that he was headed for the door at some point. 176 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:51.419 Yeah. 177 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:52.620 I guess with Graham. 178 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:59.460 I thought Graham was really underused in this episode and for him then just to sort of stay behind because Ryan's not coming. 179 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.679 I don't know whether that was necessary. 180 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.079 Completely true to the character. 181 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.000 You may disagree. 182 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:06.779 I felt. 183 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:09.660 Okay, that he's made that decision. 184 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:19.200 Um, He could have easily, quite easily have stayed as well and said, yeah, it's down on your own 2 feet, um, for a bit and I'll see you when you get back. 185 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:19.740 I don't know. 186 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:25.920 I, But I do like the fact that they weren't killed off or made into some sort of travel with the mortals around the universe. 187 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.599 It's actually the 1st normal companion departure, isn't it? 188 00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:32.940 Martha maybe, but she's sort of traumatised. 189 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.720 But it's the 1st time people say actually we're kind of done here. 190 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:38.519 Thanks. it's been fun. 191 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:42.839 And it is, I think it is sort of well signposted at the beginning. 192 00:17:42.900 --> 00:18:01.259 Like you can tell because Ryan and Graham have got on with their lives for the last 10 months that they've actually started to see how the world works without the doctor and you can see Yaz, who's got her madness wall of, she just needed some red thread. 193 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:01.799 Yeah. 194 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.420 You know, she's got her paranoia wall on the, in the, in, uh, Ruth. 195 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.200 Is it Ruth Darnus? 196 00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.059 No, no, it's just a spare. 197 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.019 It's the spare. 198 00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:12.180 It's the spare tartars that we killed. 199 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.079 That we kill. 200 00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:15.720 Yeah, I mean, the doctor kills one of... 201 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:26.220 Possibly the only 4 Tartuses in the universe. in order to stop the Daleks in, like a, oh, what is it, a Peter Rabbit sort of moment? 202 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.099 Like, oh, I bet you can't come in here and kill me. 203 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:32.579 She just doesn't even have any bedrooms, right? 204 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:35.819 Oh, where's Nissa and Tegan's room? 205 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:45.180 That's the other thing about that conversation between Ryan and the doctor. 206 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:54.180 It takes 4 minutes to get to Osaka and presumably Chris North and Graham are in Jack's suites at the cocktail bar. 207 00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:55.859 That is right. 208 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.960 I thought when I watched, like, where the hell are they? 209 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:05.880 I like to think that Graham is off showing him that newspaper machine where he got the coupons to go to Orphan 55. 210 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.000 I hope it'll happen again. 211 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:10.079 Go there now. 212 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:14.279 We talked a bit about the Chris North character. 213 00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:19.799 I didn't like how stupid he was when he was in the TARDIS and couldn't really understand. 214 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:23.759 Like, at some points he was quite funny and and and used well. 215 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:24.720 Other points, I just thought, oh. 216 00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:27.420 Really, that's what we're going for. 217 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:44.940 Oh, no, it's a complaint, but I think he has 2 really brilliant lines, and the one is when we learn that all of the people operating the factory have been sort of liquidised and fed to the Daleks, and he goes, you know, this is a PR disaster, I think, spectacular. 218 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:52.019 And then, and then it, it's like one of the uh, doctor's companion says, oh, give us a reason why we should save you. 219 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:53.579 And he just goes, money. 220 00:19:55.440 --> 00:20:07.920 Like, I actually think part of the problem with the with the cibnolia is that it doesn't, everyone is playing it too, particularly Tosen, but everyone is sort of playing it, isn't playing it quite big enough. 221 00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:14.220 Um, and he, he, he is actually doing that a bit. 222 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.440 And so I sort of quite liked him. 223 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:21.299 I wasn't a big fan of just watching his business dealings for half an hour at the beginning of the episode. 224 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:36.599 I did like the line where he was talking about, they've got stunt Dalek weapons in at that very beginning to test on the stunt protesters and he says, you know, she says we, they're not, it's not real gas and he goes, yeah, but I still think that could have been fun. 225 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.180 Trumpy in line. 226 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:46.859 That's kind of interesting too, because it's clear that Chibnall can write some fun engaging dialogue. 227 00:20:46.920 --> 00:21:01.980 And I think in the fast moving scenes, in, in the, in the sort of um, lots of people around, lots of things happening, those scenes, the dialogue is not so awful as it is when he's just doing those 2 people having a DNM moment together. 228 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.539 Yeah. 229 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:09.539 I think is, I'm, I'm, I'm going to dissent and say, I actually quite like the 2 DNM conversations. 230 00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:29.039 I, I, the problem I have with the, the Ryan and the doctor one is it covers some of the same ground as the Ruth doctor and doctor conversation in the Matrix last episode, but it also brings home to me that, because I was thinking, hold on, why is the doctor still thinking about this after 19 years? 231 00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:36.059 And it's, it goes back to the doctor needs companions and needs humans. 232 00:21:36.059 --> 00:21:46.619 And, you know, Matt Smith needed Amy and Rory, like with the doctor, the widow in the wardrobe, he's pretending like he's functional and Claire's skin is like, no, you're not. 233 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:50.579 You are like, just go find your friends and have Christmas dinner, you tool. 234 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:55.079 Um And I think that's kind of what it is here in that. 235 00:21:55.740 --> 00:22:07.680 The doctor is doing that thing that some fans, hello, me, do, and it's like, I must come up with a theory that fits all these facts and Ryan cuts through it and says, no, you just run around saving people in a blue box. 236 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:08.400 Yeah. 237 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:12.599 You know, that, what, nothing takes anything away from that. 238 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:16.440 And I think that's a really, I think that's a really sweet moment. 239 00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:25.079 The dialogue I had a big problem with is um, is Prime Minister Joe, who's Joe Patterson. 240 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:27.000 It's an easy name to remember, but I keep forgetting it. 241 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:43.559 Um, Her line of dialogue of something like if anyone finds out that I'm the one who helped you steal the dialect after killing the driver in a layby and stuffing him in a in stuffing him in a van and the tea truck had comic sands on the outside. 242 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:44.759 I noticed that. 243 00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:47.819 But, you know, that kind of fits because it's a fake tea truck. 244 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:55.319 Um, the other, and the other line I really hated in that, um, in that the workers have been fed and popped. 245 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:58.619 It's like, one, the Dalek's like, the workers were made. 246 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.000 And I'm like, redundant? 247 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:01.920 Unnecessary. 248 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.400 Okay, plane thieves, got it? 249 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:10.859 Um, but then Jack's like, you popped the workers and fed them to, it's like, yes, we get that. 250 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.359 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 251 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.200 Who pulled them? 252 00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:13.980 Do you think? 253 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:16.619 Got some contractors in? 254 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.099 Yeah. 255 00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:25.500 Well, and, you know, that's a metaphor for the episode because you get the contractors in to pulp the old workers, but then you got to pulp the contractors. 256 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.240 So it's a thing. 257 00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:29.400 Now, one thing that we haven't talked about is prison. 258 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:34.920 And I think that Jody's in prison longer than 19 years. 259 00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:40.559 So Jack says that it takes, it took him 19 years to get to be in the cell next to her. 260 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.000 And when she says it's been a rough few decades, I think she's been there for a long time. 261 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:47.220 So why doesn't she try to escape? 262 00:23:50.279 --> 00:24:02.339 Because she's having a, she's having a good time ruminating and feeling sorry for herself, which look, Tom Baker does in Brain of Morbius, Colin Baker does, threatens to do with the twin dilemma. 263 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:08.759 It's like without any, without any humans around, she's like, oh, well, why shouldn't I just sit here for 500 years and think about it? 264 00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:12.180 At least I'm not on an annoying planet called Christmas. 265 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.940 How did you find the prison scenes, Todd? 266 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.440 They were fine to quote myself. 267 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:25.319 What I actually really enjoyed was seeing other creatures from the past. 268 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:36.660 And although, you know, the doctors, like, the doctor for her crimes and then, but then we've got like a weeping angel and I did burst out laughing when I saw the pating. 269 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:37.799 I just thought that was wonderful. 270 00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:44.940 What about, at the very end, so she's calling it tiny, but Ryan refers to it as the mighty patini. 271 00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:47.700 Go on, Todd. 272 00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:54.059 Yeah, so I didn't mind that, but I just thought, and I guess it comes back to this. 273 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:59.220 They needed her to be away from Ryan and and Graham for 10 months. 274 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.519 So it's almost like he reverse engineers, like we're going to write him out. 275 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:06.900 So let's have the doctor be in prison, and then how do we get her out of prison? 276 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.720 Oh, well, let's bring in this character, like, there's all these. 277 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:33.119 I don't know, utterly predictable or easy solutions to the problems, that sort of just, if I can put it that way, that I kind of think in Stephen Moffat's time or um, Russell's time, it would be, uh, you'd be surprised, whereas I'm never quite, Surprised, were like, oh, oh, that makes logical sense. 278 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:38.279 I mean, he, He answered virtually all of my questions in the episode about how things work. 279 00:25:38.339 --> 00:25:40.440 So I was quite satisfied with that. 280 00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:50.339 Um, And, you know, having Jack there to give us references to companions and other people passed is always a nice little sprinkling of nostalgia. 281 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.420 Um, But why stay in there for that long? 282 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.140 I mean, a doctor break out, like, doesn't she? 283 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.019 What how did it change her? 284 00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:08.940 Like, what is the ordeal in prison that means that she's a different person when she comes out of it than when she went into it? 285 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.519 In fact, there's there's none of that at all. 286 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:13.920 It's just she's exactly the same sort of person. 287 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:30.180 So it does really seem like it was just marking time and and um, uh, it would have been nice if we could have, if for the 3 companions' sake, they could have looked at this person who has, you know, spent decades away and noticed that she has changed in some way. 288 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.460 Yeah, that she hasn't. 289 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.299 No, and they, and he, she never says anything and maybe that's nice. 290 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.720 It's nice to have her not be self-pitying about it afterwards. 291 00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:44.519 But I think it's a mistake to have the doctor turn up and have everyone cross at her. 292 00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:49.019 You know, like we should be excited that she's entered the story and we're kind of not. 293 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:52.980 And I do think that the prison break had, there was no nothing clever to it. 294 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:58.019 Like, one of the things that I miss is when the doctor does something super clever. 295 00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:06.240 And in this story, she gets rescued by someone else who brings the, you know, escaping from prison device with him. 296 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:07.740 So there's nothing. 297 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.140 There's no heist, there's no distract the guards. 298 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:11.099 There's really nothing. 299 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.460 It is a fun sequence, like the ball thing. 300 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:21.660 Um, and in in a sort of 45 minute stretch where we're pretty starved of action, that is quite welcome, I think. 301 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:32.400 Um, And again, you know, like we spend a lot of time just going around finding out what happens and then there's a clever thing that we don't see her come up with at the end. 302 00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:33.420 Do you know what I mean? 303 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:41.339 There is a kind of, there's a straightforwardness to it, which I actually think is, you know, a bit unambitious, I guess. 304 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:42.660 I agree with you. 305 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:55.200 I think there's some narrative cleverness in the fact that the 2nd TARDIS has been sitting there unnoticed throughout most of the episode, it's there and then she uses it at the end and she disguises it. 306 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.900 And I think that's got an element of cleverness in it. 307 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:04.920 But overall, you do get the sense after watching the episode of Jody spending a lot of time in the Tartist pressing buttons. 308 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:06.000 Yeah. 309 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:22.259 And where she doesn't get a big moment towards the end where she gets to confront it, confront the villains and kind of bring everything to a close, except she's a hologram when she's talking to the SAS Starlex in the old TARDIS. 310 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.519 So there's a real sense of her being distanced from all the action. 311 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:28.140 Yeah. 312 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:29.339 I mean, I agree with you. 313 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.700 That moment, using that TARDIS is the clever moment. 314 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:37.440 But I just want more clever moments rather than what I can see has been obvious. 315 00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:46.740 And um, straightforwardness to plotting because it all works in this perfunctory to get us to the end so that 2 companions will leap. 316 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:50.400 I mean, I guess that's my one criticism. 317 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.299 Don't get me wrong. 318 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.259 I did enjoy it. 319 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.920 It was fine. 320 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:59.099 Um, But I'm not in love with the episode, but I thought there were some good moments. 321 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.079 Hmm. 322 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:19.380 Um, I will say that knowing that Graham and Ryan were leaving, now, of course, I put out a mad theory on YouTube, Graham was going to be the doctor and his personality was hidden inside his West Ham badge because it said West Ham of Duro and he was going to travel around the universe with his grandson. 323 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.059 Might still happen, Brendan. 324 00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.740 It might still happen. 325 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:31.019 As my friends and friends of the podcast, Scott and Anson pointed out, little bit death of personality for Graham, though. 326 00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:32.220 It's like, yep, fair enough. 327 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:40.140 Um, But because that announcement was made, a lot of people were like, oh, they're going to be exterminated by Daleks because it's a Dalek story. 328 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:47.759 And when they're running around on the ship, I was, I had, like, been saying for months, they're not going to, Chris Chibnall is not going to kill his companions. 329 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.859 That's Moffat's thing. kind of thing. 330 00:29:49.920 --> 00:30:02.880 Um, But when they're running around on the ship, I'm like, actually, like this, it created genuine suspense in me in a way that doesn't often happen with Doctor Who because you know everyone's going to get out okay. 331 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:05.640 It's like, well, actually, no, I know this is their departure story. 332 00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:10.380 And yeah, if Graham was killed, I think that would be enough for Ryan to say, uh no. 333 00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:25.380 In fact, I think Yaz's advice to them, which is make sure that you, you have to detonate the bombs after you're on your way back. you know, like he's deliberately setting that up to be a bit of peril for those 2 in particular. 334 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.160 Yeah. 335 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.960 All right. 336 00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:43.859 Well, look, I'm super aware of the need to keep this episode shorter than the eventual 2025 flight through entirety episode that we're going to do once we've had time to actually come up with considered opinions. 337 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.460 So we might wind it up there. 338 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.299 I want to plug flights through entirety. 339 00:30:51.359 --> 00:31:08.819 We have just finished the 2009 specials, and if you're listening to this today, There will be a big retrospective, thanks in very large part to Todd, coming out, I think, probably this Friday, and then, of course, we'll do season 5 later in the year. 340 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.119 Um, Brendan, I think you have things to plug. 341 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:12.839 I do. 342 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:24.059 My YouTube channel is back, so you can check out Brandy Bongos, and from the end of this month, I will be uploading new videos in my say something nice series where I say something nice about every episode. 343 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.180 And thankfully, the ratings for this one look very healthy. 344 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:31.019 So I'm not going to have to go back and slot it in between 2 episodes I've already done. 345 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.480 Thank you, the timeless children. 346 00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.460 No one wants that. 347 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.940 All right, Johnny, you've got nothing to plug. 348 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:39.359 Is that in? 349 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:45.480 Uh, nothing new to plug, but you can see, you can read everything I've ever thought and written about Doctor Who on Randomhooness.com. 350 00:31:45.599 --> 00:32:00.059 Brilliant. that's awesome All right, so I guess all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember you can't eat the cage, believe me, I've tried, and I spent the next week flossing with an angle grinder. 351 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.980 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 352 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:04.140 You can eat the harness though. 353 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:04.500 Good night. 354 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.039 Good night. 355 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:07.140 6.7 out of 10. 356 00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:07.920 Good night.