WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:01:28

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the

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only Doctor Who flash cast that makes other Doctor Who flash casts

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scream.

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So we're kind of terrible.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Karen.

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I'm Brandon.

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And I'm Todd.

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So this week we're here to discuss the 2nd last episode of the

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season, the 1st of the two-part season finale.

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The egregiously named Ascension of the Cybermen.

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Or as I like to call it, us clenching of the Zidman.

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Of course you do, James.

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And so I have a question.

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And I want to ask, Todd, flying cyber drone heads or cyber

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shades.

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Cyber shades.

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Thanks.

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I have a theory that every showrunner gets to introduce something

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massively stupid about the cybermen.

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And so for RTD, it's cyber shades.

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For Moffat, it's cyber brigadier and... those terrible cyber mats

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with the rat teeth.

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Oh, they're great.

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And obviously for Chibnal, it's the Flying Cyberdones.

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Let's just talk about how we thought the episode went.

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What did you think, Todd?

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I liked it.

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I love the cold intro into the opening credits.

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I love the fact that Middle 8 was back.

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I thought Jody was terrific.

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I, the whole Brendan mystery thing intrigued me as it went along.

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Um, and I like that clunky spaceship that Yasin Graham escaped

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in.

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I thought that was great and those stupid cyber drone things were

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terrible.

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But no, and I guess I guess the only thing that I was just a bit

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disappointed in is that we got absolutely no answers on anything

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but, you know, that's the way it was going to be was all going to

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be set up, wasn't it?

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But I liked it.

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I really like that spaceship.

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I have to say that's one thing I'm absolutely behind in this

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episode.

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What did you think, Brendan?

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Um, I'm with Todd. really enjoyed this one.

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I actually really like the cyber drones because they are just

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something so ridiculous.

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I can easily imagine Russell T. Dave is doing them.

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The way I immediately rationalise them in my head is that they

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come from cybermen whose bodies have been destroyed and the heads

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have been repurposed into drones.

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I think with the graphics used for them, there is a problem of

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scale.

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Like sometimes they seem to be giant czar dogs, cyberheads and

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sometimes they seem to be regular sized heads.

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But not to labour that point too much.

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Also liked the design work.

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The human's craft, the grav raft reminded me of the gravitron, if

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anyone remembers that from like fairs and festivals in Australia

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and probably beyond.

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Um, And I like that we have a very organic split to the team, you

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know, Yasm Graham managed to get on the ship and Ryan doesn't.

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I think Ryan is a bit underused in this set, but that's fine

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because it gives more time to Yaz and Graham, and they've been

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paired up a few times this season and I actually quite like the

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sort of gentle relationship between the 2 of them.

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You know, they they sort of quietly encourage each other.

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Um, which I very much enjoy.

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If I had to pick one particular fault.

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It's kind of related to Todd saying we don't get many answers this

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episode and it's just, that also means that our cliffhangers don't

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really come together. in a way that they often do if we have

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multiple cliffhangers in one of these 2 partters.

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And that makes the ending feel a bit limp for me.

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I also, as much as I love Sasha, I don't think he's doing his

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cliffhanger acting here.

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He's just doing normal acting and he needs to do cliffhanger

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acting.

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All right, okay, that's cool.

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Karen, what did you think?

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Well, I'm a bit easily pleased.

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I love any new Doctor Who.

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Um, I actually really did enjoy it.

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I thought it was quite a, I suppose, a strong episode in a lot of

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ways.

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I do agree the cyber drones are just, I had to actually bite my

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tongue so I didn't laugh.

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That's a good thing when you're watching Doctor Who.

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I know Doctor Who, you know, you laugh at it, but that wouldn't

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have been a good laugh.

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Yeah, I mean, with Brendan on the gravitron thing, I was expecting

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someone to throw up and have it inch along the wall.

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Apart from that.

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Yeah, yeah, a really strong episode, and I really would love to

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find out Brendan's story.

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Yeah.

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You know, I've been wondering, Brendan's story for the last 20

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something years.

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You still bemused me, darling.

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Yeah, Rod did turn to me and say, if you were Ginger, this would

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be really freaky.

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That took me about now, would I think?

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Well, not only am I not ginger.

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Pretty bald.

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Anyway, sorry, James.

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So is so is Brendan by the end. they burnt off all his hair.

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I really, I really enjoyed it.

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Even the cyber drones, though I kind of wish they'd opened up and

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eaten the heads of some of those really irritating dregs of

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humanity.

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Oh, they were so dull.

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Apart from what's her face?

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Yes, try and remember one of their names, James.

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No, the actress.

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The actrine. her name?

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What is her name?

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Julie Graham?

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Yes, thank you.

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She was in a Sarah Jane adventure.

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Well, there's that, but also rather unloved.

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I think it was like ITV or Channel 4 series called Bone Kickers.

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Well, she did the survivor's reboot as well.

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She was the lead in the survivors reboot.

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She's a bloody good actor.

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She was unleash your secrets to me.

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I remember bone kickers.

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Yeah, so overall, I enjoyed it.

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Yeah.

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Well, I'm going to be the one who, you know, pisses in everyone's

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cheerios today.

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I actually think it was the weakest episode of the season.

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And um, when I was, maybe I was in a bad mood on the Monday

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morning when I watch it, but I really, really thought it was

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terrible and I compared it to Brendan, um, as being similar to

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Ransco Av Colos.

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And I was, I think maybe that's a bit unfair, although I did see

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someone online refer to it as Rand Score Avcolos with Cybermen.

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So it wasn't just me.

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Probably the same quarry.

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And, and, and it was the thing where it's, it's just a bunch of

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fairly stale cliches. like, you know, um, cybermen marching people

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going from ship to ship.

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And there was a chance at sort of world building, but it didn't

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seem to be taken, at least as far as the characters are

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concerned.

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I don't think that there's anyone very interesting.

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Everyone seems to be massively underwritten.

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They have stupid space names.

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What was the ratty-faced boy's name?

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Yeah, lami or something.

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Like it just ridiculous.

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And I do think that the Brendan thing, that we should have been

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given some reveal in part one, that they should have given us

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something.

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I will agree with you there.

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I actually think that the Brendan thing, we needed some we needed

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some reveal.

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We needed something to happen.

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And I think, It was a bit frustrating at the end when it was sort

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of like, when Gallifre was revealed, I kind of went, oh, it's

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Gallifre, and then in my head I went, oh, I bet you the master's

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going to jump out and say nothing.

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And that's exactly what he did.

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He jumped out and said nothing.

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Um, So that sort of was a bit of a...

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I don't know.

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Other people seem to really love that, but I was just there going

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really like, we've just had to set up, set up, set up.

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And that's, but I understand where you're coming from.

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That's why I liked it, but I didn't particularly love it.

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It's one of these things where I need to see where we're going

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with part 2 really.

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Yeah, I mean, that cliffhanger is, you know, it's not hard.

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You just write the words on the page.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It doesn't come from anywhere else in the story.

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And so it just didn't strike me as all that great.

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It's kind of a bit word-pearly, isn't it?

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Yeah, little bit.

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A little bit.

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Like, oh, I mean, and also reminiscent of the whole Jack turning

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up to stall the plot of episode five.

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But it would have kind of nice been nice if it had been like, you

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know, 20 minutes earlier.

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So suddenly there's a bit of a jolting the storage, do you know

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what I mean?

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And then we get some actual substance, but um, I don't want to

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like rain on the whole thing because I did watch it twice and and

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and the 2nd time through actually, I actually quite liked Ravi and

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her, like she was good with Graham.

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I thought she was really good.

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I thought she was a standout.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Although, again, you know, like people are talking about the

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chemistry between them, but basically it's a 2 line exchange, you

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know, like we are kind of clutching at straws to try and get

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something out of that, you know, character stuff.

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Um, Brendan, how did you feel the cybermen were presented this

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time?

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Um, I continue to be intrigued by a shard.

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Um, someone online, I think it could have been scribble script

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Kevin, who, um, we've, um, we've quoted before, uh, described him

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as like a cyber groupie, and we discover in this episode that he

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was basically rejected for conversion, but sees that as, well, that

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means I'm meant to be above the cyberman.

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And it's sort of a terry nation idea that the cybermen need a

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mouthpiece to be interesting, but kudos to Chris Jubinal.

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It's something that hasn't been done on TV before.

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But his name's not Tarrant.

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But isn't it not Tarrant?

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Or Croton.

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Isn't a shard, an anagram of shard?

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Yes apparently.

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One of the many little in jokes.

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What did you, what did you think of the side meant, Karen?

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Well, in regards to Urshard, I like, I kind of find it a bit more

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creepy with part of his face.

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I like the old cyberman, as in, let's go right back to the

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beginning, where you can still tell they're partly human, but you

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never see anything, whereas just seeing a bit of that dead face.

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It's just, yeah, it's a good effect.

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But yes, the reject with delusions of grandeur would be

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interesting to see if that pays off.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's Chris Tribnell, so probably won't.

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But these, I mean, the Simon, the, you know, the reenactment of

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that scene from Earthshock where they're all sort of marching

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through the thing is incredible.

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I mean, it really is astonishing.

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Do you see someone on Twitter rescored it with the music from

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Earth.

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Fantastic.

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Did they put Beryl Reed in there?

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That's what it needed.

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And an assistant floor manager with a clipboard.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And Dedrick to draw the fire.

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Wasn't that early on, didn't they?

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All those red shirts getting killed, isn't it?

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When they started killing off them, I thought, well, none of the

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regulars are going to be any, in any real jeopardy this episode.

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Originally, I thought Ryan was actually going to be in for it.

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But then they sort of backed away from that.

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But no, I'm with you, Karen.

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I really like seeing a shard's face and his eye as well.

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That really is creepy.

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But I love this design of these, these, these new cyber troops.

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Like, it's very revenge of the cyberman slash invasion.

251
00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:54.480
I just love the more blockiness of the sides of that helmet.

252
00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:54.960
They look great.

253
00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:58.019
These little spikes they have.

254
00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:02.460
Yeah, the spikes, I was going to say, they kind of give it a sort

255
00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:03.899
of samurai edge almost.

256
00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:09.480
You know, it really properly feels like armour and it's it's a

257
00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.480
great upgrade to the nightmare and silver design, which I've never

258
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.799
particularly taken to.

259
00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:15.779
It's a bit sort of bland.

260
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.879
Their faces are a little bit too blank, I think.

261
00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:22.259
And so, you know, giving them that the bun heads and things from

262
00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:24.419
invasion, I think, is probably an improvement.

263
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.940
The other thing I thought that was great in that scene is when all

264
00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:29.940
of the doors open along the corridor and they all open just

265
00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:33.480
impossibly, impossibly quickly, one after the other. looks so

266
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:33.659
good.

267
00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:36.720
It's one effect that paid off.

268
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:37.799
Yeah, yeah.

269
00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:38.159
Yeah.

270
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:39.720
I mean, the show looks incredible.

271
00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:42.659
You know, like we criticise the cyber drones and stuff like that

272
00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:44.519
because I don't think they were all that well done.

273
00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:48.059
But the cyber ships coming into land looked amazing.

274
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.879
You know, the spaceship, that big spaceship they're in.

275
00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:53.279
The way that's realised, I think, is just incredible.

276
00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.820
That Fraser looked very shocked, didn't it?

277
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.600
Yeah, yeah.

278
00:12:57.659 --> 00:12:59.700
Or sort of sort of Orion or something.

279
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.759
Like it had a real kind of, it was, it was good.

280
00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:06.059
Like I like the idea of the cyber war, I think, but it just all

281
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.879
seemed to be a bit too gun and a bit too sort of, you know

282
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:10.980
shooting things in space and stuff.

283
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.679
And it could have done with a few more gags.

284
00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:18.779
Do any of you read the Titan?

285
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:20.519
Doctor Who comics?

286
00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:27.360
There was a seriously did called supremacy of the cybermen?

287
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:27.960
Oh, nice.

288
00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:31.500
In which the sidemen invade and take over, but Gallifrey and

289
00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:33.000
convert all the time laws.

290
00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:36.299
Oh, about 4 or 5 years ago.

291
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.899
So it just is a bit reminiscent of that, yeah, yeah.

292
00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.899
Yeah, like I just, I'm like, is that what they're doing?

293
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:44.279
I wouldn't mind it.

294
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.700
It was a good comic series, but it was, it just seemed like they

295
00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:52.139
they were just, you know, doing a spare parts, kind of rip again.

296
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:53.340
So...

297
00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:57.899
So, Brendan, you and I are going to disagree about the guest cast

298
00:13:57.899 --> 00:13:58.379
is that right?

299
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.820
Um, well, look, I liked Julie Graham as well.

300
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:10.559
I thought the um, the 2 younger people with Ravio and Graham, I

301
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:11.519
thought they were okay.

302
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:14.100
They're not particularly well sketched, but you know, you've got

303
00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:22.139
plucky beanie girl and um, gaunt, um, cynical guy, you know, that's

304
00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:22.799
really all they are.

305
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:24.600
There are 3 words. covering meth addict.

306
00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:28.919
Yeah, so he's called Yedlami and I can look up her name.

307
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.740
She might be called Biscuit.

308
00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.559
Yeah, she's she's biscuit, I think.

309
00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:37.200
She's best.

310
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:38.940
That's so bad. they?

311
00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:40.080
But that's the thing.

312
00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:41.159
You got all these space names.

313
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:42.779
And then you've got Ethan.

314
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:43.559
Yes.

315
00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:45.779
And he's the one whose name you could easily remember.

316
00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:50.039
Yeah, and the thing is, I really, I really like him.

317
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:55.139
Yeah, he's he's given he doesn't have much lines are a lot to do

318
00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:59.279
but he imbues himself with character, you know, he's interested in

319
00:14:59.279 --> 00:14:59.940
technology.

320
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.620
He can hotwire a cybership.

321
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.000
He's a bit cheeky with Ryan.

322
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:08.639
And at 1st I thought he was Alfred Enoch until I realised that

323
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.539
Alfred Enoch is not like about 17, you know, he's about 30.

324
00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:13.679
Not anymore.

325
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:19.679
But yeah, uh, he, Julie Graham was obviously a standout.

326
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:24.840
Ben Ethan, always nice to see, um, And I'll never get this right.

327
00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:30.779
Ian McLenery from Game of Thrones, who plays Kosharmus.

328
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.039
Oh okay.

329
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:34.860
Yeah, the other 2 are a bit forgettable but inoffensive.

330
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.879
Yeah.

331
00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:36.539
Yeah.

332
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:37.860
Yeah, fair enough.

333
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:40.559
And how do you think the regular's fair this week?

334
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:42.059
Todd?

335
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.580
Um, Well, as I said, I thought Jody was absolutely terrific.

336
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:49.980
Ryan was hardly in it.

337
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:52.320
Um, Yaz and Graham.

338
00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:55.139
We're fairly good if a bit preachy towards the others saying I'll

339
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.340
buckle up and be positive.

340
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.059
Your younger brother died just a few hours ago.

341
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:01.139
Buckle up and be positive.

342
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.860
And your whole race is about to become extinct, but calm down.

343
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:06.419
Yeah, shut up Graham.

344
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.120
Rod really hated that.

345
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:11.879
I have to say I did too.

346
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.379
Yeah, no, terrible.

347
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.440
And what did you think of the regulars, James?

348
00:16:19.500 --> 00:16:21.059
They were all terrible.

349
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:21.899
Okay, good.

350
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:23.279
This would be shocked.

351
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.179
Yeah, the B positive stuff got me a bit because, you know, when

352
00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:32.759
you're going through hell and someone's saying that to you, you

353
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:33.840
just want to punch them in the face.

354
00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:38.639
But, but, you know, they did, they did okay.

355
00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:40.019
I agree.

356
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.460
Ryan was a bit underused, but maybe he's coming up in the next

357
00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:45.360
episode, who knows?

358
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:50.220
I think there's an attempt to get the Edlami to kind of like start

359
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:52.980
enjoying himself when he gets on the cybership and starts to

360
00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:56.039
remember kind of, you know, nearly being killed on one or whatever

361
00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.580
and, you know, he starts to, he does actually start to cheer up.

362
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:04.680
But I do think that he, that Chibnell sets himself, a sort of

363
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:09.000
unimaginable task of what, you know, 4 people left that doesn't

364
00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:14.940
seem to make any sense and, you know, we don't really properly

365
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:17.460
seek to imagine what that world would be like for them.

366
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.079
To me.

367
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:21.839
And I've been feeling this for a while.

368
00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:25.319
It seems like there are too many people in the TARDIS and not

369
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.380
enough guest actors in a lot of episodes.

370
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.059
But Praxius didn't suffer from that.

371
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:31.079
Praxius was fine.

372
00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:32.819
It depends who's writing.

373
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.200
Yeah, maybe that's true.

374
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:39.660
And what about the doctor this week?

375
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.059
I thought she was very rude to Raffio.

376
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.019
And I've been longing for her to be a bit ruder, but I thought, you

377
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.720
know, I don't have to hear your life story. too rude.

378
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:51.420
Is that what she said?

379
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.740
I couldn't pick up that one.

380
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:53.460
Something like her.

381
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.859
Yeah, I don't have to hear your life story.

382
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.240
Yeah, it, yeah.

383
00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:58.740
Have you finished your life story?

384
00:17:58.740 --> 00:17:58.980
Yeah.

385
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.539
I thought Jody was great.

386
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:05.819
I thought she was great and everything that she did, whether it be

387
00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:08.819
humour or confronting people or just telling, you know, getting

388
00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:10.859
the spaceship and go, don't argue with me.

389
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:11.940
I was really impressed.

390
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.160
Yeah, I thought she was really good.

391
00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:17.880
I think, you know, that opening sequence where the drones defeat

392
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:18.660
all of their things.

393
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.799
I mean, you know, they've got 3 classic cybermen killing devices

394
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.859
you know, one with gold, one with a force field one with a, you

395
00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:30.299
know, like whatever, one with, did it spray nail polish remover or

396
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:31.799
something like it was something like that.

397
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:35.579
And so obviously that was going to fail horribly.

398
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:40.019
Um, but just the kind of sudden desperation she was playing then.

399
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:45.480
Like she has been the real winner this season, I think, partly as

400
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.380
she gets more comfortable maybe, but also, more importantly, people

401
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:52.259
are writing her with and giving it something to do.

402
00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:56.519
Yeah, a lot of people argue that she doesn't have the same impact

403
00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.339
as the other doctors, but I actually think she does.

404
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.140
And even when she's being quiet, she has a fair amount, whereas

405
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:07.380
some of the other doctors just weren't quiet enough to have that

406
00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:08.220
impact, I guess.

407
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.099
I find her, she can be very forceful.

408
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.940
But I also agree with the little sort of the rude bits in between

409
00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:18.779
where I don't have to hear life story or, you know, just little

410
00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:22.740
off, the way she was with, um, oh, what's her name?

411
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:24.240
Raviio.

412
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:24.900
Raviio.

413
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.160
I was about to say ravioli.

414
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.480
Pointing that into the podcast. absolutely staying in, Karen.

415
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.059
I don't mind.

416
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.460
Unlike that ravioli you had earlier.

417
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.920
I was just going to say, look, I've long been off the opinion that

418
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:47.339
part of Jody's character as the doctor is, you know, she wants to

419
00:19:47.339 --> 00:19:49.799
knock about and have fun and have a laugh, but there is this

420
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:54.180
menace beneath the surface which comes out when the fam are not

421
00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:57.779
around and we saw it when she was dealing with Krasco and teasing

422
00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:01.319
the Dalek and teasing Ashad last week.

423
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.819
But this is the 1st time the fans see it in full force.

424
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.119
Like when they say when they kind of do their thing, which they've

425
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.420
done a few times before, where each of them kind of gets a Huey

426
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:15.359
Dewey, Louis moment where they kind of sum up the situation one

427
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.579
after the other where the doctor just turns around and screams at

428
00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:17.819
them.

429
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:18.359
I know.

430
00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:19.440
Yeah, yeah.

431
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:22.440
And and they're quite and they're quite taken aback by that.

432
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:28.140
But, Yeah, I, I kind of think it's coming to the surface now that

433
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:32.940
The doctor is realising, you know, there's no peace for her.

434
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.940
She can't just knock about the universe and have fun because

435
00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:38.039
there's always going to be these things to deal with.

436
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:41.460
And it's exactly what Peter Capaldi's doctor was talking about at

437
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:41.819
the end.

438
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.779
It's like, I am so tired of watching people die and dying myself.

439
00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:49.259
And he's hoping the next time is going to be different and it was

440
00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:52.079
for a little bit, but it's going back the same way now.

441
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:58.259
So there's one more thing that we haven't talked about, and that

442
00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:00.420
is the mysterious Brendan.

443
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.599
So how did you feel those scenes went, Todd?

444
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.839
At first, I, well, actually, I was intrigued all the way through

445
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.720
and it sort of built as it went along.

446
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:21.420
Um, And and and then when he got shot and survived that, I thought

447
00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:22.799
where are they going with this?

448
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:26.160
So, and I just wanted to, I just wanted an answer, not just more

449
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:26.819
questions.

450
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.859
But I am intrigued.

451
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:33.000
What about you, um, Brandon?

452
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.640
Um, yeah, I'm I'm similarly intrigued to Todd, and I've actually

453
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.559
been talking to friends of the podcast.

454
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:46.079
Alex and Bob about this separately. and between the 3 of us, we've

455
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.059
come up with some rather interesting theories, which I won't go

456
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:51.480
into here, just to avoid any possibility of spoilers.

457
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:55.259
But it's just continued this thing of this year that of, there are

458
00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:57.779
so many things to think about in each episode.

459
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:03.059
And generally, it's not because things have been left out, but

460
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.880
they've deliberately been left up to the viewer's imagination.

461
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:08.700
And that's what we're getting here.

462
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:10.019
So it really works for me.

463
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.839
But like Todd said earlier, I would have liked some kind of

464
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.220
closure by the end of the episode.

465
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.880
It makes me wonder if this was designed to go out as a 90 minute

466
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:18.299
special.

467
00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:23.220
I think that this subplot, like, would have been better for part

468
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:28.920
two, because then it could lead straight into the reveal.

469
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:29.940
Do you know what I mean?

470
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.259
Like that subplot reaches a big crisis and he's being, you know

471
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:36.599
electrocuted or put in a chameleon arch or whatever.

472
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:41.039
And, I mean, that's the way I think we've been programmed to think

473
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:41.700
this, though.

474
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:43.680
That's the way that Moffat would do it.

475
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.700
You know, you'd have one episode which was quite linear and

476
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:48.420
straightforward.

477
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.519
And then the next episode would start with something...

478
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:54.839
Seen more completely different from everything and you might end

479
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.480
up with Brendan's whole story in 15 minutes without the regulars

480
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.539
and then it would crash into the main drama.

481
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.259
Yeah.

482
00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:04.680
Or that thing would lead straight into the reveal.

483
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.559
Like, we would find out the meaning of that almost immediately.

484
00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:11.400
As it is, I can't see that we go back to that next time except in

485
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:12.299
some dialogue.

486
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:13.319
Do you know what I mean?

487
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:16.920
And I just think that that's that's a weird kind of way of going

488
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.299
about writing it, I think.

489
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.519
What do you think, Karen?

490
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:27.299
I liked, actually, just thinking about the, the intro, and then

491
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:32.339
the, like the, the whole, I suppose, juxtaposition of it going

492
00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:37.619
back to seemingly the 1930s and the start of this story.

493
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:45.000
Um, Yeah, it's I, again, I am intrigued, and yeah, I think they

494
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:47.579
should have answered some of the questions, but I like the little

495
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:51.180
things in there, like when Brendan falls off the cliff, and he's

496
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:55.259
and he's superior's shocked that he gets up, and yet by the end of

497
00:23:55.259 --> 00:23:57.059
the episode, they've come to get him.

498
00:23:57.299 --> 00:23:59.759
So was it a simulated life?

499
00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:00.480
Who knows?

500
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.019
Isn't Gallifrey in Ireland?

501
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.039
Yes, yes.

502
00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:07.799
Well, this episode, because this episode's actually shot in

503
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:08.220
Ireland.

504
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:12.240
So that beach was in Ireland, and so Gallifrey is finally in

505
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:12.660
Ireland.

506
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.799
That's absolutely true.

507
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.500
I thought that those scenes weren't all that interesting in

508
00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:23.099
themselves in the sense of incident.

509
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.640
But I did like the feel of them and the look of them a lot.

510
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:32.519
So that was that was something I am super apprehensive about what

511
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.859
the resolution is next week.

512
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.880
I'm very worried.

513
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:37.440
The time lords are human.

514
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.799
Well, yeah, that would be okay, but...

515
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:43.980
But that might be kind of boring.

516
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:44.700
I don't know.

517
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:45.480
Anyway, we'll see.

518
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:45.960
We'll see.

519
00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:47.039
I don't want to prejudge it.

520
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.940
Does anyone have any urgent closing statements?

521
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.059
I wish I'd actually seen the Cyberball.

522
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.779
You know, ever since Voger and the Planet of Gold, I've wanted the

523
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:02.759
cyber war, but we sort of skirted around it.

524
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.480
It's either happened or it's right, you know, it's sort of at the

525
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:06.900
end of it.

526
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.019
And I guess that's really what I wanted, but anyway, that's just a

527
00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:10.980
personal thing.

528
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.740
But, um, who knows what will happen next week?

529
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:15.720
He's just got to stick to landing now.

530
00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:16.440
Yeah.

531
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:17.220
Yeah.

532
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:17.819
Yeah.

533
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:19.259
Okay, all right.

534
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.599
Well, we might end on that hopeful note.

535
00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:23.160
I hope that was a hopeful note.

536
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:23.880
Yeah.

537
00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:26.339
So and we will obviously be back next week.

538
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:34.200
For the massive 70 minute finale, which is called Last of the Time

539
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:34.740
Lords.

540
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:35.339
What's it called?

541
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:36.420
The Timeless Children.

542
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.859
The Timeless Children.

543
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.359
It's called Death in Heaven, or possibly the Doctor Falls.

544
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:44.819
The Great Muppet Caper.

545
00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:51.779
It's our 3rd bi-annual meeting of the Cybermen, the Master, and

546
00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:55.740
the Doctor to round off the series, and I'm here for that as a

547
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:57.119
tradition.

548
00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.359
It really is funny he's decided to do that.

549
00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.200
I know.

550
00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:04.619
It's just it seems like an extraordinary thing for him to want to

551
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:06.480
try and compete with, actually.

552
00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:10.980
And to bring in Gallifrey from the story that wasn't the master

553
00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:12.180
the doctor, and the cyberman.

554
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:13.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

555
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:14.099
Yeah, yeah.

556
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.839
I hate Gallifrey.

557
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:18.720
It does look like that none of those sofa survived, though.

558
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:20.759
So, yeah, we have that.

559
00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:22.680
The ruins look very ruinous.

560
00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:25.019
I've seen the BBC one trailer.

561
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:26.940
Oh, there are sofas, are there?

562
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.779
I'll have to check it.

563
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.660
Sof, no more.

564
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:31.559
Okay.

565
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:32.640
All right.

566
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:36.359
So, until next time, remember to keep your chin up and maintain

567
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:40.440
that glass half full attitude, even when your entire species has

568
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:41.220
been wiped out.

569
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:43.500
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

570
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:44.339
Good night.

571
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.299
Good night.

572
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:46.019
Good night.

573
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:47.099
See you soon