Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the
only Doctor Who flashcast that travelled back in time to inspire
the creation of Doctor Who itself.
No need to thank us.
I'm Nathan.
I'm James.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Todd.
And I'm Stephen.
So we have all spent the last few days learning how to pronounce
the haunting of Villa Diodarte.
And we are ready to talk about it.
So Stephen, what did you think?
I thought this was the most enjoyable episode of Jody's reign
since Rosa for me.
Wow, fantastic.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, Todd, I've heard that you watch this one alone in a darkened
room, weeping into a box of big finish audio CDs.
So what did you think?
Well, Nathan.
It's not quite true.
I've just got off a plane from LA where I watched this with 1500
other Doctor Who fans at the Gallifrey one convention.
And I have to say watching it with 1500 other people was just an
amazing experience.
Um, I thought this episode was absolutely phenomenal.
And, uh, Um, like Stephen, I think this is the best episode since
of her since Rosa, she was absolutely fantastic the moment she
said, well, she, she said a lot of things to quite a few men and
put them in their places.
The highlight of which was like, this is not a flat structure in
terms of hierarchy, which I just thought was brilliant.
And I have to give kudos to an episode where the valet almost
steals the show.
It must have been amazing watching it with an audience because the
valet did just the most amazing comedy bits that were so well
judged.
Like the laughter throughout, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
It was funny, don't you think, Todd?
Oh, that's, but that's what I love in Doctor Who, is the fact that
when you have something that is so captivating and on edge of, edge
of your seat and thrilling that, that in those, those, those
moments of sheer terror that you get the humour and I, and I think
that's something the Doctor Who um, other shows learn off Doctor
Who, really.
Brilliant.
Thanks.
Brendan, what did your left nostril think of this episode?
For those of you at home who don't know, my 1st try recording a
walk to work with Whittaker this week.
I used the macro lens on my camera and basically recorded my nose
and extreme close-up talking about this episode.
Is that a sort of red dwarf?
But look, I have to agree with Todd and Stephen, I thought this
was a fantastic episode.
I did say in my YouTube review that, I wondered about sort of
underusing Mary Shelley a bit, but I, I've kept thinking about
that, and I think actually she was used very well in that, every
action she takes in the plot is intelligent and brave and she, you
know, and she's a big part of the resolution of the story as
well.
Um, yeah, I thought it was really balanced, the companions all got
stuff to do.
Wonderful scene with Ryan, which I may go further into later at
the piano.
But yeah, overall, another strong episode in a really strong run
of Doctor Who, that we've had since Nicola Tesla's Night of
Terror.
Or Orphan 55 if you're Pete Lambert.
James, what are you, Pete?
No, no, I loved it.
For the 1st time...
Well, in a couple of episodes.
No, I really, I really enjoyed the, the dark sort of Gothic horror
kind of element, something that is traditionally a very Doctor Who
staple that they haven't done that well for a long time, I think, I
think is, is what impressed me about it.
I, uh, I also felt that Mary Shelley was a little underused
especially given that the story is basically implying that this is
the inspiration for Frankenstein.
But when she was used, like, like Brendan said, like, really well
done, thoughtful, um, great actress in this episode.
Um, Richard made her made a quite interesting observation.
He couldn't be here tonight.
He's working.
Poor bastard.
Um, But that um, Byron, Shelley, and Mary would make good doctors
this year of the show.
I'm voting for John Polidori, actually.
Well, yes, of course you are.
Years and years, fan.
I want to say that I think that this is Jody's best episode.
For me, this ranks higher than Rosa, which I have political
problems with.
Um, but uh, you know, racist.
Well, no, no, no.
It's too not racist.
No, I thought that this was incredibly enjoyable and I just
thought it was like a masterclass in how to deal with, you know, 4
regulars and a bunch of really kind of well-drawn guest characters
in 50 minutes.
It can be done. and I thought it was done really well here.
Plus atmosphere plus all sorts of other stuff.
It was good.
What reminded me of?
Well, tooth and claw.
In a good way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Good celebrity historical.
So it basically falls into 2 parts, so let's talk about the
haunting and then let's talk about the lone cyberman.
How many lone cybermen, are there, James?
Just the one.
Just the lone cyberman.
So, um, Stephen, what did you think of the 1st half, the kind of
just more straightforward horror bit?
Look, I really enjoyed this for a number of reasons.
There's so many callbacks too, a lot of the classic Doctor Who
stories that I enjoy, whether that's the image of the Fendal or
Castra Valver, it also reminded me of horror of Fang Rock in the
way that it was very much a chamber piece and an atmospheric one
as well.
So, um, all of that was just tick, tick, tick.
And I think it's probably a stronger aspect of the story than the
sort of the lone cyberman part, which I guess we'll talk about
later.
But this one was wonderful.
Like I kept thinking this has to have an amazing explanation in
terms of the pop mechanics to justify what we're seeing here.
And it did.
I just couldn't fault it. absolutely wonderful.
What did you think, Todd?
Look, I completely agree with Stephen.
Like I was thinking, cast your vow of a horror fang rock as I was
as I was watching this, and I, and I just, I just laughed my head
off the fact that Graham seems to have been haunted by 2 other
ghosts than everybody else.
I just couldn't stop laughing and laughing about that, but which
whether or not we get any other explanations.
I don't care.
It was just hilarious, but also freaky.
Love that comedy moment.
Oh, didn't you didn't you see them?
You said there were no such thing as goes.
Unless there are.
Yeah, it was really good. at the end.
It leaves it open to not having an explanation and it can just be
you know, there are such things as, you know, how does that go?
There are more things in heaven and earth.
Yeah, in your philosophy.
Wrong writer. love that.
Do you know, Mary Shelley's 18 when this happens, I think, in
1816.
And the thing that I thought it sold really well is that
everyone's so insanely young.
And that scene where they're dancing and doing the crucial, who is
who and how is everyone related to everyone?
I loved that.
That was such a clever way to do that info dump.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. through gossip.
Yeah, yes.
Oh, and yeah, like the lightness of touch with the, like she calls
herself, she calls herself Mary Shelley, but they're not married.
And basically, she's an unwed mother in, yeah, in a period when
that's not okay.
Yeah, yeah.
No, well, I mean, both of them are, that's why everyone's in, in
uh, in, anyway.
Yeah, yeah.
They went away to avoid scandal, yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think her father particularly approved of Percy, but her
parents had written about, you know, this institution, a marriage
thing.
Why is that such a big deal?
You know, they were quite forward thinking people and that's where
Mary gets it from.
Yeah.
Yeah, that dance scene was wonderful.
The scene I was referring to earlier with Ryan is where he and
Mary are at the piano and...
It's just, it's a subtle reference to his dyspraxia, but how the
character relates to it differently.
The 1st time we ever see Ryan back in the woman who fell to earth
he's talking about how he can't do things because of his
dyspractia, like he can't ride a bike.
Now, he attempts playing the piano and he knows that it's
imperfect, but he just keeps trying and that's been the growth of
his character.
And, and it's all done without him saying to Mary Shell, oh, yeah
I've got this thing where what I tell my body to do, it doesn't
always do properly.
And instead, it's just expressed through the character's
philosophy in this really nice character moment that then leads to
that wonderful comedy bit of Polidori challenging him to a duel.
And again, the butler, Fletcher, who the, sorry, the valet
Fletcher, I should say, who has already been pointed out, amazing
piece of performance, just rolls his eyes on, oh, no, not again.
Especially seeing as Polidori's narcoleptic.
So does he fall asleep during duels?
I suppose so.
Isn't that how he died?
The other thing too, I thought the atmosphere was really
interesting because you're used to these sort of these, you know, I
mean, it's the same year that Emma, Jane Austen, publishes Emma.
So, you know, those sort of Austin adaptations where everything is
sort of very flat and evenly lit.
And here everything seemed to be being lit by sort of practical
you know, candles and things.
I mean, I'm sure it wasn't, but just that darkness at night, which
would have been what everyone what everyone was experiencing, just
sold the atmosphere so well.
Yeah.
So something about that atmosphere that I noted that took me a
while to get used to because we're so unused to this, even in
Doctor Who, you know, we've talked on flight through entirety
before how historicals are like theme park historicals, they're
quite neat, they're quite clean, you know what I mean?
But here, there's all this.
It seems like smoke in the air and hey, probably from all the
candles and oil lamps they're burning and that kind of thing.
And it kind of gives the picture a dreamlike quality, whereas last
week, the ship in, Can you hear me?
Very crisp and all those purple neons and what have you.
And it, in a way, it took me a little while to get into the story
because of that.
But once I was in there, I'm like, 0 no, this has drawn me into
this setting.
It just took me a while.
Does Do any of the sort of guest characters sort of particularly
strike you, Stephen?
I mean, all of them are wonderful and wonderfully played.
I mean, there's such a giant of literature.
So, of course, you know, being a literature student once upon a
time, just sort of having that on the screen and in a Doctor Who
again, just wonderful.
I thought Byron in particular was amazing and Shelley too.
I think all of them, really.
Yeah.
What about you, Todd?
Was there anyone you liked particularly?
Um, who was the guy that hid behind Shelley?
Who was that?
That's Lord Byron.
Lord Byron hid behind Claire Claremont.
Oh sorry.
Yeah, it's my jet lag.
Yes, of course.
I thought he was great in being such a cad and, and, and that gave
opportunity for, for all the ladies and of course, the doctor to
put him in his place.
In fact, that rule, the don't snog Lord Byron rule that the doctor
has established at the beginning.
And like Yaz thinks that she might actually do it.
And I actually quite like the fact that we're slightly sexualising
the doctor, this female doctor for the 1st time in a way that
they've sort of avoided a little bit.
And she's having none of it.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Can you get that wonderful bit at the end where, you know, he
tries his shtick with, um, with Claremont.
Claremont.
They clear a terrible name.
Didn't you get that fantastic bit at the end where he tries to
pick up Claire Clermont again.
And she's like, no, you used me as a human shield.
You can go me myself.
Well, you see, that's my my sort of standout.
Of course, Lily Miller does an amazing job as Mary Shelley, but my
standup because of that scene is Nadia Parks is Claire Claremont.
Now, when we were talking about series three, I think we all at
one point or another said this Martha subplot of being in love
with the doctor has gone on too long and it just goes to show you
can do Martha's entire subplot in 50 minutes because Claremont
gets it.
Oh, you're wonderful.
Oh, you're brilliant.
Oh, you're a bit rubbish, actually.
And I'm worth 10 of you.
Awesome.
So let's move on to the chief villain of the piece, the lone
cyberman.
How do we feel about this half of the episode?
I might ask you again, Stephen.
Look, I think it's very strong, but it just maybe doesn't quite
sort of stack up to the promise of the 1st half, and it's very
much, I think, 25 minutes in, we get into that 2nd half, and the
lone side sort of materialises in the hallway in the house there.
I don't know, perhaps the way in which it's establishes a bit of a
runaround, and I'm not sure if that sort of appealed to me.
There was that wonderful exchange, though, between Shelley and, I
guess, the Frankenstein monster, if you like, the cyber, the lone
cyberman towards the end, which I thought was really effective, and
kind of sowed the seeds of where the Frankenstein idea comes
from.
That was quite lovely.
But obviously it's kind of like a utopia kind of episode where
we're setting up for the next 2 parts in the season finale and I
thought this was equally as enjoyable.
How did you feel about the lone sideman, Todd?
I didn't have a problem with it.
I couldn't work out whether or not I'd been spoiled to know that
that's what it was, and certainly that shot when they look out the
window down to the lake and and all of that lightning and all that
stuff's happening, which I thought was a beautiful shot.
It reminded me a bit of Mordred Undead when they look back up the
grass to where, you know, the obelisk thing is.
No, I didn't have a problem with that at all.
I thought it was great.
And that confrontation scene between her and the monster was
brilliant.
And no, I, I, it needed to, something needed a kicking to change
gears, I think, halfway through to sort of start sowing the seeds
of why all this is happening.
And I had no problem with that at all.
I just, I thought it was tremendously well used and, and I just
thought it was very telling that this, that, to this episode that
it wasn't a one that was written by X-riter and Chris Chipnall.
It was the writer doing all this at, you know, putting all this
plot stuff in and succeeding without having to go to a committee.
So I was just really impressed.
I wonder whether we would be, uh, whether we would have been quite
so impressed by the haunted house thing had it kind of outstayed
its welcome a bit.
Like, I think giving us that much, leaving us wanting a bit more
and then changing tack halfway through is probably the right
decision.
But what about the, you know, is he a shard?
A shard?
A shard himself?
What did you think, Brendan?
Um, look, an excellent idea.
As I've often said, Cybermen are my favourite Doctor Who monsters
and when, you know, I sort of heard a while ago that Cybermen
might be back, world enough in time, their last story is my
favourite Cybermen story, and it's kind of like, 0 my god, how are
they going to stack up?
And, It's amazing that the Chibnol era looks at Cybermen and goes
okay, what's the Cybermen's defining feature?
They have no emotions.
Well, yet, chuck that out the window.
And let's not only have a sidemen with emotions, This side man is
psychotic and tells us he was psychotic before he became a
cyberman.
And what I, what I love about that scene with Mary Shelley is, it's
kind of an inversion of the conversation that happens between
Frankenstein and the monster where Dr. Frankenstein himself is
cruel and callous to the monster and rejects him and the monster
by instinct is actually a compassionate and caring creature who
only becomes bitter and violent, through having bitterness and
violence thrust upon him.
So I was kind of left with the impression, 0 my god, when Mary
comes to write this story, she writes the monster as she wishes
the monster she met had been.
So this cyberman is both Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and his
monster in one. spooky And just the design.
I just want to call out Ray Holman, who is the costume designer.
He is on Twitter and he is just a lovely enthusiastic guy on
there.
Looks amazing.
We've got a 10th planet arm.
We've got nightmare and silver body.
We've got a new helmet and all this stuff.
Yeah, just really effectively done.
I think too, now we're, you know, so many seasons in after the
introduction of the Cyberman, and you had Moffat kind of
retconning them as a thing that happens to kind of humanity
eventually over and over again.
The idea that the sidemen are this sort of motley collection of
things that are designed in all sorts of different ways and are
even kind of conceived in different ways.
I think is really good.
And I loved the doctor's explanation of who they were.
I thought that that was so well done.
Her anger at the thought that they might hurt her friends.
Yeah, yeah, what happened to Bill.
And that's our kind of first, you know, it's sort of our 1st
reference to... in a way.
Yeah.
At least his emotional impact on the character.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, let's do just a sort of quick roundup of how we thought the
doctor went this week, because I think there are things to say
about that.
What do you think, Brendan?
Um, quite possibly Jody's fiercest performance to date.
I say fiercest because, you know, there have been other stories
where she's been quite strong, but the strength has come from sort
of confusion or being on the back foot.
Whereas here she's proactive throughout, and my god, that the look
on her face when Ryan basically says, yeah, kill Byron for all the
people in the future.
And there's this look which I interpreted as the doctor said
thinking, 0 my god, is that what I've taught you three?
I actually have to say that I think that that was slightly muddled
that whole kind of trolly problem thing.
Like, I'm not quite sure.
I think that was one of the weaknesses of the episode.
Well, you've been spoiled by the good place.
Well, maybe.
But I do think that her performance in it was just incredible.
And in an episode where she gets to be funny and silly and witty
and all of those things.
I mean, this is how I want her to be all the time.
And this is what she always is at her best.
I think that this is, you know, as far as performance goes, this
is the best material she's had and she's really, really risen to
it.
And I would agree.
Yeah.
Did you have anything more to add to that though, Todd?
No, I don't think so.
I think this is her best performance and all of those things help
her, help her shine and I just loved the fact that she had
something to get her teeth into and she managed to, she was given
the opportunity to be funny and to be pissed off and to be, um, and
to have agency and and to be very unimpressed with with people and
and she delivered.
Yeah, just wonderful.
Stephen, we haven't heard from you.
I also thought this was Jody's best performance for a long time
but I still feel like the Rosa episode is where we saw, I think
what I guess I wanted to see from Jody's doctor.
And right from the beginning, what is it, the second, the 3rd
episode of her run.
It's almost disappointing that we've had to wait this long again
to get a performance of that kind of stature and think.
And it's not so much Jodi.
I think it's the material.
And in this instance, where she's just given gold.
It comes through wonderfully.
I don't know if I fully accept the flat structure mountain sort of
piece, but the rest of it's wonderful.
And as you say, in the 1st half in particular, when she's all
funny and silly, that's the doctor.
That's the doctor right there and we got we got it.
Yeah.
Well, I think we could wind it up there unless anyone has a
closing statement.
I just have to say that toast and coal is that gorgeous in real
life.
We saw the photo.
He was great this week.
And he's very funny too.
Like, he's got a natural humour, like, you know, in his interviews
and stuff over the weekend.
You can see why he was cast in that role.
Yeah, they're really starting to use him properly for that too.
He's really very good.
All right.
Well, we might wind that up.
We're going to be back next week, obviously, at this time for the
1st in a two-part Chris Chibnell penned finale, which we're not
going to spoil the title of because I can't remember it right
now.
Oh, it's terrible.
I just remembered.
Never mind.
Tension of Cyberman.
That's it Elevation of the bandrels.
Superannuation of the side of man.
So we might finish up there.
Todd, thank you so much for joining us on, you know, it must be 4
o'clock in the morning or something by your local circadian clock
is that right?
have no idea.
How are you feeling?
am I?
I'm okay now, but you know, a few hours ago I was really
struggling.
So this is both...
I can, I've managed to string 2 sentences together, so there you
go.
Well done, you've done well.
And Stephen, thank you very much for joining us.
So I had no idea that you were going to do that until you actually
called in.
So I'm very happy to speak to you.
Thank you, Mr. managed.
Brilliant.
Special guest star, Stephen B. Yeah.
So until next time, may you find a nice hat with a plume somewhere
one that really suits you.
Love a good plume.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you soon.
Be seeing you.