WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:00:36 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.139 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Interterterra, the 2 00:00:04.139 --> 00:00:08.039 only Doctor Who flashcast that travelled back in time to inspire 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.380 the creation of Doctor Who itself. 4 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:12.000 No need to thank us. 5 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:13.199 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:14.039 I'm James. 7 00:00:14.099 --> 00:00:15.480 I'm Brendan. 8 00:00:15.539 --> 00:00:16.800 I'm Todd. 9 00:00:16.859 --> 00:00:18.179 And I'm Stephen. 10 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:23.219 So we have all spent the last few days learning how to pronounce 11 00:00:23.219 --> 00:00:25.019 the haunting of Villa Diodarte. 12 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.079 And we are ready to talk about it. 13 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:31.559 So Stephen, what did you think? 14 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.719 I thought this was the most enjoyable episode of Jody's reign 15 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:37.740 since Rosa for me. 16 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.799 Wow, fantastic. 17 00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:42.299 Yeah. 18 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:42.659 Okay. 19 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:46.619 Well, Todd, I've heard that you watch this one alone in a darkened 20 00:00:46.619 --> 00:00:49.979 room, weeping into a box of big finish audio CDs. 21 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:51.119 So what did you think? 22 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:53.159 Well, Nathan. 23 00:00:53.219 --> 00:00:54.479 It's not quite true. 24 00:00:54.539 --> 00:00:58.740 I've just got off a plane from LA where I watched this with 1500 25 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:02.100 other Doctor Who fans at the Gallifrey one convention. 26 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:06.299 And I have to say watching it with 1500 other people was just an 27 00:01:06.299 --> 00:01:07.560 amazing experience. 28 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:12.840 Um, I thought this episode was absolutely phenomenal. 29 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:18.000 And, uh, Um, like Stephen, I think this is the best episode since 30 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:23.579 of her since Rosa, she was absolutely fantastic the moment she 31 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:27.120 said, well, she, she said a lot of things to quite a few men and 32 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:28.439 put them in their places. 33 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:33.719 The highlight of which was like, this is not a flat structure in 34 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.780 terms of hierarchy, which I just thought was brilliant. 35 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:40.140 And I have to give kudos to an episode where the valet almost 36 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:40.980 steals the show. 37 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:46.260 It must have been amazing watching it with an audience because the 38 00:01:46.260 --> 00:01:50.579 valet did just the most amazing comedy bits that were so well 39 00:01:50.579 --> 00:01:51.239 judged. 40 00:01:51.299 --> 00:01:53.579 Like the laughter throughout, I think. 41 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:55.019 Yeah, yeah. 42 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:56.579 It was funny, don't you think, Todd? 43 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.939 Oh, that's, but that's what I love in Doctor Who, is the fact that 44 00:01:59.939 --> 00:02:03.959 when you have something that is so captivating and on edge of, edge 45 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:07.799 of your seat and thrilling that, that in those, those, those 46 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.740 moments of sheer terror that you get the humour and I, and I think 47 00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:13.800 that's something the Doctor Who um, other shows learn off Doctor 48 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:14.400 Who, really. 49 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:15.300 Brilliant. 50 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.960 Thanks. 51 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:19.379 Brendan, what did your left nostril think of this episode? 52 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:26.219 For those of you at home who don't know, my 1st try recording a 53 00:02:26.219 --> 00:02:27.780 walk to work with Whittaker this week. 54 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.919 I used the macro lens on my camera and basically recorded my nose 55 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.139 and extreme close-up talking about this episode. 56 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:37.020 Is that a sort of red dwarf? 57 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:44.639 But look, I have to agree with Todd and Stephen, I thought this 58 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:47.280 was a fantastic episode. 59 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:53.819 I did say in my YouTube review that, I wondered about sort of 60 00:02:53.819 --> 00:02:59.520 underusing Mary Shelley a bit, but I, I've kept thinking about 61 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.860 that, and I think actually she was used very well in that, every 62 00:03:04.860 --> 00:03:11.460 action she takes in the plot is intelligent and brave and she, you 63 00:03:11.460 --> 00:03:15.900 know, and she's a big part of the resolution of the story as 64 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:16.199 well. 65 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:21.599 Um, yeah, I thought it was really balanced, the companions all got 66 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:22.139 stuff to do. 67 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:25.439 Wonderful scene with Ryan, which I may go further into later at 68 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:25.919 the piano. 69 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:30.599 But yeah, overall, another strong episode in a really strong run 70 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.840 of Doctor Who, that we've had since Nicola Tesla's Night of 71 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:34.139 Terror. 72 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.860 Or Orphan 55 if you're Pete Lambert. 73 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.099 James, what are you, Pete? 74 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:47.879 No, no, I loved it. 75 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:51.060 For the 1st time... 76 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.659 Well, in a couple of episodes. 77 00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:00.900 No, I really, I really enjoyed the, the dark sort of Gothic horror 78 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:07.080 kind of element, something that is traditionally a very Doctor Who 79 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:12.180 staple that they haven't done that well for a long time, I think, I 80 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.939 think is, is what impressed me about it. 81 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:20.759 I, uh, I also felt that Mary Shelley was a little underused 82 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:26.040 especially given that the story is basically implying that this is 83 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:30.060 the inspiration for Frankenstein. 84 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:37.379 But when she was used, like, like Brendan said, like, really well 85 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:43.500 done, thoughtful, um, great actress in this episode. 86 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:50.279 Um, Richard made her made a quite interesting observation. 87 00:04:50.339 --> 00:04:52.560 He couldn't be here tonight. 88 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:53.279 He's working. 89 00:04:53.339 --> 00:04:54.959 Poor bastard. 90 00:04:55.019 --> 00:05:01.079 Um, But that um, Byron, Shelley, and Mary would make good doctors 91 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:03.180 this year of the show. 92 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:08.100 I'm voting for John Polidori, actually. 93 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.639 Well, yes, of course you are. 94 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:13.019 Years and years, fan. 95 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:18.779 I want to say that I think that this is Jody's best episode. 96 00:05:18.899 --> 00:05:23.699 For me, this ranks higher than Rosa, which I have political 97 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:24.300 problems with. 98 00:05:24.420 --> 00:05:27.899 Um, but uh, you know, racist. 99 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:29.100 Well, no, no, no. 100 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:31.439 It's too not racist. 101 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:36.839 No, I thought that this was incredibly enjoyable and I just 102 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:42.300 thought it was like a masterclass in how to deal with, you know, 4 103 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:47.399 regulars and a bunch of really kind of well-drawn guest characters 104 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:49.079 in 50 minutes. 105 00:05:49.139 --> 00:05:51.600 It can be done. and I thought it was done really well here. 106 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:54.000 Plus atmosphere plus all sorts of other stuff. 107 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:54.420 It was good. 108 00:05:54.540 --> 00:05:55.379 What reminded me of? 109 00:05:55.439 --> 00:05:57.839 Well, tooth and claw. 110 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:58.920 In a good way. 111 00:05:58.980 --> 00:05:59.699 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 112 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:00.420 Okay. 113 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.519 Good celebrity historical. 114 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:09.060 So it basically falls into 2 parts, so let's talk about the 115 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:13.680 haunting and then let's talk about the lone cyberman. 116 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:15.959 How many lone cybermen, are there, James? 117 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:16.980 Just the one. 118 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:18.540 Just the lone cyberman. 119 00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:24.120 So, um, Stephen, what did you think of the 1st half, the kind of 120 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:26.100 just more straightforward horror bit? 121 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.639 Look, I really enjoyed this for a number of reasons. 122 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:33.060 There's so many callbacks too, a lot of the classic Doctor Who 123 00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:36.120 stories that I enjoy, whether that's the image of the Fendal or 124 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:40.500 Castra Valver, it also reminded me of horror of Fang Rock in the 125 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:43.319 way that it was very much a chamber piece and an atmospheric one 126 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:43.620 as well. 127 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.519 So, um, all of that was just tick, tick, tick. 128 00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:50.519 And I think it's probably a stronger aspect of the story than the 129 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:54.300 sort of the lone cyberman part, which I guess we'll talk about 130 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:54.779 later. 131 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.779 But this one was wonderful. 132 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:01.800 Like I kept thinking this has to have an amazing explanation in 133 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.980 terms of the pop mechanics to justify what we're seeing here. 134 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:06.420 And it did. 135 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.300 I just couldn't fault it. absolutely wonderful. 136 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.879 What did you think, Todd? 137 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.420 Look, I completely agree with Stephen. 138 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.079 Like I was thinking, cast your vow of a horror fang rock as I was 139 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:22.139 as I was watching this, and I, and I just, I just laughed my head 140 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:26.399 off the fact that Graham seems to have been haunted by 2 other 141 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:27.480 ghosts than everybody else. 142 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:31.620 I just couldn't stop laughing and laughing about that, but which 143 00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:33.779 whether or not we get any other explanations. 144 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:34.439 I don't care. 145 00:07:34.500 --> 00:07:37.319 It was just hilarious, but also freaky. 146 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:39.240 Love that comedy moment. 147 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.120 Oh, didn't you didn't you see them? 148 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.720 You said there were no such thing as goes. 149 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:46.620 Unless there are. 150 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:48.899 Yeah, it was really good. at the end. 151 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:52.920 It leaves it open to not having an explanation and it can just be 152 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.060 you know, there are such things as, you know, how does that go? 153 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.480 There are more things in heaven and earth. 154 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:01.379 Yeah, in your philosophy. 155 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.399 Wrong writer. love that. 156 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:11.040 Do you know, Mary Shelley's 18 when this happens, I think, in 157 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:12.000 1816. 158 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.279 And the thing that I thought it sold really well is that 159 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:16.079 everyone's so insanely young. 160 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:22.319 And that scene where they're dancing and doing the crucial, who is 161 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.480 who and how is everyone related to everyone? 162 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:25.800 I loved that. 163 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:29.639 That was such a clever way to do that info dump. 164 00:08:29.699 --> 00:08:31.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. through gossip. 165 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:33.000 Yeah, yes. 166 00:08:33.059 --> 00:08:40.379 Oh, and yeah, like the lightness of touch with the, like she calls 167 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:43.440 herself, she calls herself Mary Shelley, but they're not married. 168 00:08:43.500 --> 00:08:51.179 And basically, she's an unwed mother in, yeah, in a period when 169 00:08:51.179 --> 00:08:51.899 that's not okay. 170 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:52.919 Yeah, yeah. 171 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:56.399 No, well, I mean, both of them are, that's why everyone's in, in 172 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.700 uh, in, anyway. 173 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:00.179 Yeah, yeah. 174 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:04.440 They went away to avoid scandal, yeah. 175 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:05.100 Yeah. 176 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:05.460 Yeah. 177 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:08.940 I don't think her father particularly approved of Percy, but her 178 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:13.440 parents had written about, you know, this institution, a marriage 179 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:13.799 thing. 180 00:09:13.860 --> 00:09:15.360 Why is that such a big deal? 181 00:09:15.419 --> 00:09:18.299 You know, they were quite forward thinking people and that's where 182 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:19.559 Mary gets it from. 183 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:21.360 Yeah. 184 00:09:21.419 --> 00:09:23.940 Yeah, that dance scene was wonderful. 185 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:27.779 The scene I was referring to earlier with Ryan is where he and 186 00:09:27.779 --> 00:09:30.059 Mary are at the piano and... 187 00:09:31.379 --> 00:09:35.460 It's just, it's a subtle reference to his dyspraxia, but how the 188 00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:38.220 character relates to it differently. 189 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.220 The 1st time we ever see Ryan back in the woman who fell to earth 190 00:09:41.220 --> 00:09:44.159 he's talking about how he can't do things because of his 191 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:45.779 dyspractia, like he can't ride a bike. 192 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.879 Now, he attempts playing the piano and he knows that it's 193 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.600 imperfect, but he just keeps trying and that's been the growth of 194 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:55.440 his character. 195 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:59.639 And, and it's all done without him saying to Mary Shell, oh, yeah 196 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.879 I've got this thing where what I tell my body to do, it doesn't 197 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:03.659 always do properly. 198 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.960 And instead, it's just expressed through the character's 199 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:09.419 philosophy in this really nice character moment that then leads to 200 00:10:09.419 --> 00:10:12.960 that wonderful comedy bit of Polidori challenging him to a duel. 201 00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:16.980 And again, the butler, Fletcher, who the, sorry, the valet 202 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:20.220 Fletcher, I should say, who has already been pointed out, amazing 203 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:25.740 piece of performance, just rolls his eyes on, oh, no, not again. 204 00:10:27.659 --> 00:10:30.899 Especially seeing as Polidori's narcoleptic. 205 00:10:31.019 --> 00:10:32.820 So does he fall asleep during duels? 206 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:34.200 I suppose so. 207 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:36.720 Isn't that how he died? 208 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:42.120 The other thing too, I thought the atmosphere was really 209 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:46.679 interesting because you're used to these sort of these, you know, I 210 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.340 mean, it's the same year that Emma, Jane Austen, publishes Emma. 211 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.899 So, you know, those sort of Austin adaptations where everything is 212 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:56.759 sort of very flat and evenly lit. 213 00:10:56.820 --> 00:11:01.799 And here everything seemed to be being lit by sort of practical 214 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.600 you know, candles and things. 215 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:09.059 I mean, I'm sure it wasn't, but just that darkness at night, which 216 00:11:09.059 --> 00:11:12.840 would have been what everyone what everyone was experiencing, just 217 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:15.419 sold the atmosphere so well. 218 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:17.100 Yeah. 219 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.700 So something about that atmosphere that I noted that took me a 220 00:11:20.700 --> 00:11:23.580 while to get used to because we're so unused to this, even in 221 00:11:23.580 --> 00:11:26.519 Doctor Who, you know, we've talked on flight through entirety 222 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.179 before how historicals are like theme park historicals, they're 223 00:11:30.179 --> 00:11:32.700 quite neat, they're quite clean, you know what I mean? 224 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.519 But here, there's all this. 225 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:40.200 It seems like smoke in the air and hey, probably from all the 226 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.379 candles and oil lamps they're burning and that kind of thing. 227 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:48.480 And it kind of gives the picture a dreamlike quality, whereas last 228 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.460 week, the ship in, Can you hear me? 229 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.759 Very crisp and all those purple neons and what have you. 230 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:58.200 And it, in a way, it took me a little while to get into the story 231 00:11:58.200 --> 00:11:58.919 because of that. 232 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:02.700 But once I was in there, I'm like, 0 no, this has drawn me into 233 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:03.299 this setting. 234 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:04.139 It just took me a while. 235 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:10.259 Does Do any of the sort of guest characters sort of particularly 236 00:12:10.259 --> 00:12:11.700 strike you, Stephen? 237 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:15.779 I mean, all of them are wonderful and wonderfully played. 238 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.879 I mean, there's such a giant of literature. 239 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:20.940 So, of course, you know, being a literature student once upon a 240 00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:25.080 time, just sort of having that on the screen and in a Doctor Who 241 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:26.220 again, just wonderful. 242 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.600 I thought Byron in particular was amazing and Shelley too. 243 00:12:30.659 --> 00:12:31.620 I think all of them, really. 244 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:33.480 Yeah. 245 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:34.559 What about you, Todd? 246 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:36.299 Was there anyone you liked particularly? 247 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:41.820 Um, who was the guy that hid behind Shelley? 248 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:42.360 Who was that? 249 00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:45.360 That's Lord Byron. 250 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.879 Lord Byron hid behind Claire Claremont. 251 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:48.600 Oh sorry. 252 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:49.980 Yeah, it's my jet lag. 253 00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:53.340 Yes, of course. 254 00:12:53.399 --> 00:13:00.059 I thought he was great in being such a cad and, and, and that gave 255 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:03.240 opportunity for, for all the ladies and of course, the doctor to 256 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:04.019 put him in his place. 257 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:09.360 In fact, that rule, the don't snog Lord Byron rule that the doctor 258 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.340 has established at the beginning. 259 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.519 And like Yaz thinks that she might actually do it. 260 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:19.440 And I actually quite like the fact that we're slightly sexualising 261 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:24.240 the doctor, this female doctor for the 1st time in a way that 262 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:25.860 they've sort of avoided a little bit. 263 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:27.299 And she's having none of it. 264 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.500 Yeah, it's wonderful. 265 00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:31.919 Can you get that wonderful bit at the end where, you know, he 266 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:36.899 tries his shtick with, um, with Claremont. 267 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:37.740 Claremont. 268 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:39.240 They clear a terrible name. 269 00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:44.519 Didn't you get that fantastic bit at the end where he tries to 270 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:46.440 pick up Claire Clermont again. 271 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.100 And she's like, no, you used me as a human shield. 272 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:51.539 You can go me myself. 273 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:56.279 Well, you see, that's my my sort of standout. 274 00:13:56.340 --> 00:14:01.379 Of course, Lily Miller does an amazing job as Mary Shelley, but my 275 00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:05.820 standup because of that scene is Nadia Parks is Claire Claremont. 276 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.480 Now, when we were talking about series three, I think we all at 277 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.620 one point or another said this Martha subplot of being in love 278 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:16.620 with the doctor has gone on too long and it just goes to show you 279 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:20.820 can do Martha's entire subplot in 50 minutes because Claremont 280 00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:21.299 gets it. 281 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:23.820 Oh, you're wonderful. 282 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:24.720 Oh, you're brilliant. 283 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:25.980 Oh, you're a bit rubbish, actually. 284 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.799 And I'm worth 10 of you. 285 00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:32.220 Awesome. 286 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:37.259 So let's move on to the chief villain of the piece, the lone 287 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:38.159 cyberman. 288 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:44.279 How do we feel about this half of the episode? 289 00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:46.080 I might ask you again, Stephen. 290 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:50.039 Look, I think it's very strong, but it just maybe doesn't quite 291 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:52.679 sort of stack up to the promise of the 1st half, and it's very 292 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.919 much, I think, 25 minutes in, we get into that 2nd half, and the 293 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.100 lone side sort of materialises in the hallway in the house there. 294 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:04.740 I don't know, perhaps the way in which it's establishes a bit of a 295 00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:07.080 runaround, and I'm not sure if that sort of appealed to me. 296 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:10.259 There was that wonderful exchange, though, between Shelley and, I 297 00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:13.379 guess, the Frankenstein monster, if you like, the cyber, the lone 298 00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:16.620 cyberman towards the end, which I thought was really effective, and 299 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:19.500 kind of sowed the seeds of where the Frankenstein idea comes 300 00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:19.740 from. 301 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:21.419 That was quite lovely. 302 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:25.559 But obviously it's kind of like a utopia kind of episode where 303 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:29.519 we're setting up for the next 2 parts in the season finale and I 304 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:30.960 thought this was equally as enjoyable. 305 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.580 How did you feel about the lone sideman, Todd? 306 00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:38.879 I didn't have a problem with it. 307 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:43.080 I couldn't work out whether or not I'd been spoiled to know that 308 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.740 that's what it was, and certainly that shot when they look out the 309 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:51.899 window down to the lake and and all of that lightning and all that 310 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:53.700 stuff's happening, which I thought was a beautiful shot. 311 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:57.539 It reminded me a bit of Mordred Undead when they look back up the 312 00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:01.500 grass to where, you know, the obelisk thing is. 313 00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.740 No, I didn't have a problem with that at all. 314 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.580 I thought it was great. 315 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:09.960 And that confrontation scene between her and the monster was 316 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:10.440 brilliant. 317 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:15.419 And no, I, I, it needed to, something needed a kicking to change 318 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:18.059 gears, I think, halfway through to sort of start sowing the seeds 319 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:19.860 of why all this is happening. 320 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:21.419 And I had no problem with that at all. 321 00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:25.500 I just, I thought it was tremendously well used and, and I just 322 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:28.799 thought it was very telling that this, that, to this episode that 323 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:33.840 it wasn't a one that was written by X-riter and Chris Chipnall. 324 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:37.740 It was the writer doing all this at, you know, putting all this 325 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.879 plot stuff in and succeeding without having to go to a committee. 326 00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:43.019 So I was just really impressed. 327 00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:47.639 I wonder whether we would be, uh, whether we would have been quite 328 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:52.740 so impressed by the haunted house thing had it kind of outstayed 329 00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:53.820 its welcome a bit. 330 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.480 Like, I think giving us that much, leaving us wanting a bit more 331 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.120 and then changing tack halfway through is probably the right 332 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:01.500 decision. 333 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:05.579 But what about the, you know, is he a shard? 334 00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:06.839 A shard? 335 00:17:06.900 --> 00:17:07.980 A shard himself? 336 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:09.000 What did you think, Brendan? 337 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.359 Um, look, an excellent idea. 338 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.460 As I've often said, Cybermen are my favourite Doctor Who monsters 339 00:17:17.460 --> 00:17:23.880 and when, you know, I sort of heard a while ago that Cybermen 340 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:28.680 might be back, world enough in time, their last story is my 341 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:33.000 favourite Cybermen story, and it's kind of like, 0 my god, how are 342 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:33.960 they going to stack up? 343 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:40.019 And, It's amazing that the Chibnol era looks at Cybermen and goes 344 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:41.880 okay, what's the Cybermen's defining feature? 345 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:42.839 They have no emotions. 346 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:45.420 Well, yet, chuck that out the window. 347 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:50.819 And let's not only have a sidemen with emotions, This side man is 348 00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:55.259 psychotic and tells us he was psychotic before he became a 349 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:55.799 cyberman. 350 00:17:55.859 --> 00:18:00.900 And what I, what I love about that scene with Mary Shelley is, it's 351 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:03.299 kind of an inversion of the conversation that happens between 352 00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:07.559 Frankenstein and the monster where Dr. Frankenstein himself is 353 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.039 cruel and callous to the monster and rejects him and the monster 354 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.660 by instinct is actually a compassionate and caring creature who 355 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.440 only becomes bitter and violent, through having bitterness and 356 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.119 violence thrust upon him. 357 00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:23.880 So I was kind of left with the impression, 0 my god, when Mary 358 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.839 comes to write this story, she writes the monster as she wishes 359 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.359 the monster she met had been. 360 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:35.700 So this cyberman is both Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein and his 361 00:18:35.700 --> 00:18:40.259 monster in one. spooky And just the design. 362 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:44.700 I just want to call out Ray Holman, who is the costume designer. 363 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:48.779 He is on Twitter and he is just a lovely enthusiastic guy on 364 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:49.140 there. 365 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:50.759 Looks amazing. 366 00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:52.500 We've got a 10th planet arm. 367 00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:54.359 We've got nightmare and silver body. 368 00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.700 We've got a new helmet and all this stuff. 369 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.579 Yeah, just really effectively done. 370 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:04.500 I think too, now we're, you know, so many seasons in after the 371 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.740 introduction of the Cyberman, and you had Moffat kind of 372 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:11.279 retconning them as a thing that happens to kind of humanity 373 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.900 eventually over and over again. 374 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.319 The idea that the sidemen are this sort of motley collection of 375 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.799 things that are designed in all sorts of different ways and are 376 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.440 even kind of conceived in different ways. 377 00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:23.579 I think is really good. 378 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.420 And I loved the doctor's explanation of who they were. 379 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.160 I thought that that was so well done. 380 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:35.940 Her anger at the thought that they might hurt her friends. 381 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.680 Yeah, yeah, what happened to Bill. 382 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:41.640 And that's our kind of first, you know, it's sort of our 1st 383 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.119 reference to... in a way. 384 00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:45.480 Yeah. 385 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.660 At least his emotional impact on the character. 386 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.559 Yeah. 387 00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:50.039 Yeah. 388 00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:50.579 Yeah. 389 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.559 All right. 390 00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:55.980 Well, let's do just a sort of quick roundup of how we thought the 391 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.920 doctor went this week, because I think there are things to say 392 00:19:58.920 --> 00:19:59.400 about that. 393 00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:00.960 What do you think, Brendan? 394 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:09.180 Um, quite possibly Jody's fiercest performance to date. 395 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:12.359 I say fiercest because, you know, there have been other stories 396 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:17.579 where she's been quite strong, but the strength has come from sort 397 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:19.799 of confusion or being on the back foot. 398 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:25.440 Whereas here she's proactive throughout, and my god, that the look 399 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:30.119 on her face when Ryan basically says, yeah, kill Byron for all the 400 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:30.779 people in the future. 401 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.980 And there's this look which I interpreted as the doctor said 402 00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:37.259 thinking, 0 my god, is that what I've taught you three? 403 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.940 I actually have to say that I think that that was slightly muddled 404 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:44.579 that whole kind of trolly problem thing. 405 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.319 Like, I'm not quite sure. 406 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.480 I think that was one of the weaknesses of the episode. 407 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:50.519 Well, you've been spoiled by the good place. 408 00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:51.480 Well, maybe. 409 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:55.799 But I do think that her performance in it was just incredible. 410 00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:59.880 And in an episode where she gets to be funny and silly and witty 411 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.039 and all of those things. 412 00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:05.700 I mean, this is how I want her to be all the time. 413 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:08.220 And this is what she always is at her best. 414 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.900 I think that this is, you know, as far as performance goes, this 415 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:16.440 is the best material she's had and she's really, really risen to 416 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:16.619 it. 417 00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:18.420 And I would agree. 418 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:20.099 Yeah. 419 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.619 Did you have anything more to add to that though, Todd? 420 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:24.660 No, I don't think so. 421 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.079 I think this is her best performance and all of those things help 422 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:31.319 her, help her shine and I just loved the fact that she had 423 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.559 something to get her teeth into and she managed to, she was given 424 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:40.559 the opportunity to be funny and to be pissed off and to be, um, and 425 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:46.019 to have agency and and to be very unimpressed with with people and 426 00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:47.400 and she delivered. 427 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:49.140 Yeah, just wonderful. 428 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:51.779 Stephen, we haven't heard from you. 429 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.759 I also thought this was Jody's best performance for a long time 430 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:00.900 but I still feel like the Rosa episode is where we saw, I think 431 00:22:00.900 --> 00:22:04.859 what I guess I wanted to see from Jody's doctor. 432 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.559 And right from the beginning, what is it, the second, the 3rd 433 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.700 episode of her run. 434 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.180 It's almost disappointing that we've had to wait this long again 435 00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:16.799 to get a performance of that kind of stature and think. 436 00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.420 And it's not so much Jodi. 437 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.799 I think it's the material. 438 00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:21.779 And in this instance, where she's just given gold. 439 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.059 It comes through wonderfully. 440 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:29.519 I don't know if I fully accept the flat structure mountain sort of 441 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.079 piece, but the rest of it's wonderful. 442 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:34.140 And as you say, in the 1st half in particular, when she's all 443 00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.059 funny and silly, that's the doctor. 444 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.099 That's the doctor right there and we got we got it. 445 00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:40.200 Yeah. 446 00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:46.200 Well, I think we could wind it up there unless anyone has a 447 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:47.339 closing statement. 448 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.480 I just have to say that toast and coal is that gorgeous in real 449 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:51.779 life. 450 00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:55.259 We saw the photo. 451 00:22:55.619 --> 00:22:58.019 He was great this week. 452 00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:02.460 And he's very funny too. 453 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.460 Like, he's got a natural humour, like, you know, in his interviews 454 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:06.660 and stuff over the weekend. 455 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:09.900 You can see why he was cast in that role. 456 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.019 Yeah, they're really starting to use him properly for that too. 457 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:14.279 He's really very good. 458 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:16.019 All right. 459 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.099 Well, we might wind that up. 460 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:20.400 We're going to be back next week, obviously, at this time for the 461 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.900 1st in a two-part Chris Chibnell penned finale, which we're not 462 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:27.180 going to spoil the title of because I can't remember it right 463 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:27.420 now. 464 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:28.259 Oh, it's terrible. 465 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.220 I just remembered. 466 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:30.059 Never mind. 467 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:32.880 Tension of Cyberman. 468 00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:35.700 That's it Elevation of the bandrels. 469 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.059 Superannuation of the side of man. 470 00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.720 So we might finish up there. 471 00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:48.960 Todd, thank you so much for joining us on, you know, it must be 4 472 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.799 o'clock in the morning or something by your local circadian clock 473 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:53.160 is that right? 474 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.420 have no idea. 475 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:55.799 How are you feeling? 476 00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:56.880 am I? 477 00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.440 I'm okay now, but you know, a few hours ago I was really 478 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:01.980 struggling. 479 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.539 So this is both... 480 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.259 I can, I've managed to string 2 sentences together, so there you 481 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:07.680 go. 482 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:09.420 Well done, you've done well. 483 00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:12.660 And Stephen, thank you very much for joining us. 484 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.140 So I had no idea that you were going to do that until you actually 485 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:16.740 called in. 486 00:24:16.859 --> 00:24:19.259 So I'm very happy to speak to you. 487 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:20.759 Thank you, Mr. managed. 488 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:22.740 Brilliant. 489 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.259 Special guest star, Stephen B. Yeah. 490 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.299 So until next time, may you find a nice hat with a plume somewhere 491 00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:31.740 one that really suits you. 492 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:33.299 Love a good plume. 493 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.819 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 494 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:36.599 Good night. 495 00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:37.440 Good night. 496 00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:38.640 See you soon. 497 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:39.480 Be seeing you.