WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 19:00:23 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.200 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Into Terror, the 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.980 only Doctor Who flash cast that's absolutely here for you if you 3 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:09.179 ever want to talk about something. 4 00:00:09.300 --> 00:00:11.220 And we got chips. 5 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:12.480 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:12.539 --> 00:00:13.980 I'm James. 7 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:15.240 I'm Brendan. 8 00:00:15.300 --> 00:00:16.559 I'm pizza. 9 00:00:16.620 --> 00:00:20.519 And I'm Heather Locklear, as the fabulous Adam Richard. 10 00:00:20.579 --> 00:00:21.480 Brilliant. 11 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:22.500 All right. 12 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:27.000 So we are very, very near the end of the season and we have just 13 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:31.260 earlier this week watched, I can't remember what it's called. 14 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:32.159 Can you hear me? 15 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:36.179 And so let's talk about what we thought. 16 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.560 So we'll go round the horn as usual and let's start with Adam. 17 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:43.320 Oh, I loved it. 18 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:46.259 I loved it so hard, like really hard. 19 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.340 I love dismembered fingers being popped in the ear. like an upside 20 00:00:50.340 --> 00:00:51.179 down wet willy. 21 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.200 He was really into how creepy it was. 22 00:00:55.259 --> 00:00:57.899 I love a little cartoon during an info dump. 23 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.539 That is one of the best things I've I've seen in a long time. 24 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.420 I was like, oh, how do we how do we colour up this bit where we 25 00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:04.260 give all the information? 26 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:10.739 And I love the fact like it was on a mental health awareness day 27 00:01:10.739 --> 00:01:13.920 in the UK and there's a lot of mental health awareness in this 28 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:14.219 episode. 29 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.879 I feel like it was a planned thing that they were going to talk a 30 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.900 lot about how to deal with people when they're going through 31 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:23.700 terrible, terrible, terrible times. 32 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.219 It was, yeah, I thought it was really, yeah, it was a very current 33 00:01:29.219 --> 00:01:33.959 very now episode, which, uh, you know, some of these, the episodes 34 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.299 this series have been like, oh, remember the old days? 35 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:36.900 Let's be like that. 36 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:39.359 There was a little bit of that here. 37 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:41.519 Peter, you hated it. 38 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:46.620 I didn't hate it. 39 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.040 I enjoyed it for what it was, which was utterly crazy. 40 00:01:50.099 --> 00:01:53.459 Um, but it was an episode of 1st for me. 41 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.040 It was the 1st episode in quite a while, I think, to tell its 42 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:58.560 story visually, and with some innovation. 43 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:02.219 So people talk about the animation sequence, and I think, in a 44 00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:05.579 story about dreams and gods, it was perfectly out and perfectly 45 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:06.180 good to do that. 46 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:09.840 Um, it was also the 1st episode to show a bit of interiority for 47 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.620 the regulars. 48 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:14.819 Um, that includes the doctor because this doctor is all surface. 49 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.879 There's, there's never anything going on that's not written all 50 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:20.819 over a big gaping face, especially on a garden. 51 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.180 But another thirst and the reason why I just wasn't sure about 52 00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:30.539 this episode was that there was an identifiable character for the 53 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:32.219 13th doctor, but what was it? 54 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:36.120 Um, this doctor doesn't have hidden debts or, you know, she 55 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.479 doesn't conspicuously emote or relate to people in a meaningful 56 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:39.780 way. 57 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.740 And so that act that the doctor used to put on of being kind of a 58 00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:47.639 clown or unable to stand your understand your human emotions, that 59 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:48.300 is 13. 60 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:49.259 It's not an act. 61 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.080 And so in that last scene with Graham. 62 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:55.680 Where he talks about his fears over his cancer returning and the 63 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.219 doctor turns into, oh, that's mean girlfriend from that episode of 64 00:02:59.219 --> 00:02:59.879 The Simpsons. 65 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:01.259 I have to go see the music. 66 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:06.360 In that scene, the episode had the audacity to take this doctor's 67 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.319 bland superficiality. and kind of lampshade it and say that that 68 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:12.780 isn't a lack of character, that is the character. 69 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:16.139 And I don't know if it was genius or, you know, just admitting 70 00:03:16.139 --> 00:03:16.500 defeat. 71 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.580 See, that's not how I read it at all. 72 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.120 And we may get back to that either tonight or in 2025. 73 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.199 Um, Brendan? 74 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:29.520 you hear me? 75 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:30.240 Yep. 76 00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:30.719 Yes. 77 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:31.979 That's the name of the episode. 78 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.080 Peter, as often, I think you're being unnecessarily, but very 79 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:38.400 eruditely cruel. 80 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:44.580 Look, I'm with Adam on this. 81 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.879 I loved, loved, loved, loved this episode. 82 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.539 It was an episode where when I went online afterwards, people 83 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:54.900 pointed out things to me that I hadn't realised about the episode 84 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:56.400 which made me love it even more. 85 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.659 And when I brought one up to my brother last night on the phone to 86 00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:02.699 him, he said, what do you mean you didn't pick that up? 87 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:04.020 You're meant to be the smart one. 88 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.240 You know, it's an episode that managed to surprise me in that 89 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:09.539 way. 90 00:04:09.659 --> 00:04:14.879 Um, as for that last scene, because that has been a huge point of 91 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:15.960 consternation on mine. 92 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:17.160 Huge, huge, huge, huge. 93 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:23.220 The way I see that scene is the doctor says, look, I don't have 94 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.399 anything comforting to say to you right now and I'm going to be 95 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:27.180 honest about that. 96 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:31.199 It's, you know, it's it's an updated version of Chandler Bing 97 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:32.759 saying, I'm not so good on the advice. 98 00:04:32.819 --> 00:04:34.079 Would you like a sarcastic comment? 99 00:04:34.139 --> 00:04:37.199 So I'm going to go over here now and you can cry to yourself. 100 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:43.560 Well, the thing is, though, Graham is not incredibly distraught by 101 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.259 what he's feeling, but it's a matter of, I've been feeling this 102 00:04:46.259 --> 00:04:49.560 for a long time and it's this low level thing that I have and I 103 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.420 need to get it out and tell you. 104 00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:55.920 And the other half of that scene is Graham's reaction to what the 105 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:00.180 doctor says, which is kind of, oh yeah, well, all right, yeah, good 106 00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:00.480 chat. 107 00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:07.860 And I think, I think also, how the doctor acts there is kind of 108 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:10.019 neuroatypical. 109 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:16.860 It's how it's how a neurotypical person might respond to an 110 00:05:16.860 --> 00:05:21.660 emotional concern and fear that another person has. 111 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.939 They might be able to say, look, I acknowledge this is important 112 00:05:23.939 --> 00:05:26.639 to you, but I don't know how to react to this. 113 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:32.399 The other thing is, there's no right or wrong way to behave in 114 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.079 that instance in that moment. 115 00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:39.120 No, the fact that people are getting crabby about it. makes me go 116 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.199 there is, you know, there's no correct way to behave when someone 117 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.379 unloads that on you and you can't, you can't get angry at 118 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:47.040 someone's reaction. 119 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:48.540 Well, that is true. 120 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.779 I mean, there is no correct way of reacting to that, but there's 121 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:55.500 an interesting and watchable way and then there's a way... 122 00:05:56.579 --> 00:05:58.740 All right, James. 123 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:03.899 You're all wrong. 124 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:16.379 I, this episode, look, I really, I enjoyed a lot of it, but I, I 125 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:17.339 struggled again. 126 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:22.500 Yeah, we've, I think, look, I found the most recent episodes a 127 00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:23.639 little sort of disappointing. 128 00:06:23.699 --> 00:06:27.180 I wasn't on last week, but I had the same reaction to last week. 129 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.300 The pacing is a bit off the structure is a bit off. 130 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:36.300 I loved the fact that they actually kind of tackled um the mental 131 00:06:36.300 --> 00:06:42.180 health issues quite quite strongly and sensitively apart from the 132 00:06:42.180 --> 00:06:43.500 doctor at the end of the episode. 133 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:49.620 Um, but I, It was, it was kind of refreshing to see that. 134 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:56.879 Uh, In this show, especially in this version of the show, which 135 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:01.620 has kind of showed away from, Having that depth and that 136 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:04.139 interiority like you were saying, Nathan. 137 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:05.759 Was it you, Nathan? 138 00:07:05.819 --> 00:07:06.480 No, it was Peter. 139 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:07.199 I am not saying anything. 140 00:07:07.259 --> 00:07:08.759 No, no, I'm just... 141 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.480 I'm just so used to Nathan saying this about interiority. 142 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:14.339 I assumed it was him. 143 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.139 Should I retake that? 144 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:17.100 No, no, no. 145 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.360 It's all staying in. 146 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:19.620 No, that sounds filthy. 147 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:26.939 But no, like, yeah, I, I, overall, I enjoyed it apart from the 148 00:07:26.939 --> 00:07:27.660 pacing issues. 149 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:33.360 Uh, and the way it kind of dealt with, you know, let's make 150 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:35.759 references to continuity, was kind of cute as well. 151 00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:40.079 Um, so, yeah, overall, 7 out of 10? 152 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:40.439 No. 153 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:46.439 So I'm going to, I'm going to stand in for Todd while we're on the 154 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.019 subject of assigning things numbers out of 10. 155 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:50.639 Todd really liked it. 156 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:54.300 He's on a plane on the way to Gallifrey one right now, so he can't 157 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:56.519 join us, but he thought it was really great. 158 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.139 But he did admit that he did fall asleep for 10 minutes of it 159 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:02.879 during the 1st watch. 160 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:06.899 So maybe he missed all the bad bits. 161 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:07.740 I don't know. 162 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.899 It does have a dreamlike quality. 163 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:12.839 Maybe he thought he fell asleep and he dreamed all those dream 164 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:13.560 sequence. 165 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:15.600 Actually, that could well be the case. 166 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.959 I have to say that I really liked it. 167 00:08:19.019 --> 00:08:20.100 I thought it was really good. 168 00:08:20.339 --> 00:08:23.459 And the thing that I liked about it the most. 169 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:28.860 And, you know, when this version of Doctor Who tries to do soap 170 00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:35.100 opera, it's not, it's not always that interesting, but it's a 171 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:36.779 thing that I like Doctor Who to do. 172 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:42.179 And so having that, and particularly the absolute sort of 173 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:49.980 outstanding thing is Tebo and Ryan and their sort of interaction 174 00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:51.960 with each other, I thought that was really, really good. 175 00:08:52.019 --> 00:08:56.100 That's the sort of thing that I like to see from Doctor Who, and 176 00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:58.919 that really worked for me. 177 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:00.360 And I like the other stuff as well. 178 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:02.039 So I'm totally on board with this one. 179 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:03.600 On that. 180 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:10.379 I wasn't too sold on the relationship between Ryan and Tebo. 181 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:12.000 But Yaz. 182 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.059 Yazza's plot line. 183 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.500 I kind of, you know, I liked what they were trying to do, again 184 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:21.600 issues with the way it was structured. 185 00:09:21.659 --> 00:09:25.799 But, um, you know, where, where's this whole thing come from? 186 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:30.299 The foreshadowing at the beginning of the episode with, um, the 187 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:30.720 whole. 188 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.000 Oh, it was 3 years ago thing. 189 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:36.240 It's like, you know, would you be talking about it like that? 190 00:09:36.299 --> 00:09:38.399 People childishly run away all the time. 191 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:44.039 I, I kind of got this sort of foreshadowing, like, maybe her nana 192 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.220 has died or something, like, and it was dealing with her dealing 193 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:50.279 with that, but I found that a bit wrong footing, but I kind of 194 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.279 thought, you know, that was sweet, but... 195 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.379 I don't think it was about running away at all. 196 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.019 I think that it, there was her depression. 197 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:00.240 Yeah, but it was more than running away. 198 00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:05.460 It was, for me, it felt like it was, you know, running into the 199 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:09.000 ocean or running into the countryside never to come back. 200 00:10:09.059 --> 00:10:13.379 Like when you run away, you run to somewhere, like you go to a 201 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:17.100 city, you go to a, you know, you get on a big, big bust or a train 202 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:17.700 to somewhere. 203 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.799 Like she was in the middle of nowhere. 204 00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:24.899 That was, for me, suicidal ideation writ large and it's just, you 205 00:10:24.899 --> 00:10:28.980 can't say that in a show for kids, but I felt like that was what 206 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:29.879 they were getting at. 207 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:34.200 Like you don't you don't celebrate every year of dinner for going 208 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:34.740 to the shops. 209 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:36.720 I think too. 210 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:41.100 What's what's interesting about that is that Yaz actually says at 211 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:44.700 one point, it's a bit weird to have a yearly celebration of this 212 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:46.740 and it kind of is. 213 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:48.480 Like, it doesn't quite work. 214 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:54.179 But, you know, like, the mystery of it doesn't sort of quite 215 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:54.539 work. 216 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:59.700 James, were you getting massive going back to Jasper Street vibes 217 00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:00.840 from that plot line? 218 00:11:00.899 --> 00:11:02.460 Oh, God, yes, I was. 219 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:05.399 No, that's, oh my God, that's what that... 220 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:06.480 Oh, you just, yes. 221 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:09.000 I didn't realise until you just said that. 222 00:11:09.059 --> 00:11:09.899 Yes, totally. 223 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.179 When are we doing the press gang podcast? 224 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:13.620 Yeah, we're doing it now, darling. 225 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:19.139 Yeah, I'm really, totally, totally. 226 00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:20.759 Yaz as well. 227 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.899 Um, and I wonder, James, do you remember when we were talking at 228 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:28.620 the start of the season about how we thought that Yaz might end up 229 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:30.899 as the master's companion because there was something a bit off 230 00:11:30.899 --> 00:11:31.440 about her? 231 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:34.379 There was something in the way that she was reacting and her 232 00:11:34.379 --> 00:11:38.940 slight sort of disgruntled quality and unhappiness at things, and 233 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:41.879 that's cropped up again in episodes, like when she said to the 234 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:46.919 doctor in Praxius, I'm going to go back and, you know, you can 235 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:47.460 come and get me. 236 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:48.600 So she went off by herself. 237 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:51.240 There's something up with Yaz, and maybe there is an 238 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:53.519 underappreciated character arc happening here. 239 00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:58.259 I actually think that there is a very definite explicit character 240 00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:01.019 arc, and I am going to talk about the Graham thing, because there 241 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:05.940 are 3 scenes at the end of the episode, and it's like the scene 242 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:13.259 with where Ryan learns to help someone by talking to them, and 243 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:17.759 then the scene where Yaz learns to accept help in a similar 244 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:18.840 situation. 245 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:22.799 And then there's a ridiculous comedy scene. 246 00:12:22.860 --> 00:12:26.039 And I think that that's how that's to be played and that's why the 247 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.620 doctor reacts the way she does. 248 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:30.360 The scene with Graham and the doctor. 249 00:12:30.419 --> 00:12:33.240 We've had 2 heavy proper serious scenes. 250 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.220 And now we have a silly comedy scene. 251 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.799 And in a way, it doesn't quite work because the comedy scene is 252 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:40.379 about I had cancer, you know. 253 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:49.200 But, um, it leads into a scene where Yaz and Ryan are sitting 254 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:54.720 there and they're thinking that maybe the doctor isn't a real 255 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.320 enough person for them to have a relationship with long term. 256 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:03.720 You know, they've both experienced, you know, they've had, you 257 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.259 know, um, Yaz has spoken to Sonya. 258 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.179 Ryan has spoken to Tebow. 259 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:12.360 Those relationships are real proper relationships and there's a 260 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.419 sense in which when they're questioning why are we travelling with 261 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:15.960 a doctor? 262 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:18.480 Is this what our life is like now? 263 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.200 That's because they've been presented with a real alternative 264 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.080 where there's real human relationships. 265 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.500 And, you know, they kind of miss that. 266 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:33.299 So I wonder, like, there is a very real kind of feeling, and maybe 267 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:37.679 they'll throw it all away at the end of the season, where maybe 268 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.279 we'll leave. 269 00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:42.659 So are you saying that travelling with the doctor is like, you 270 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:45.419 know, when you're in a conversation with someone who's amazingly 271 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:48.419 attractive and you don't realise for about 40 minutes that they're 272 00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:48.840 an idiot. 273 00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:53.580 Maybe that's it. 274 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:54.720 Maybe that's it. 275 00:13:54.779 --> 00:14:01.019 And maybe there is some kind of parallel between running away. 276 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.860 Yaz running away 3 years ago and Yaz running away with a doctor. 277 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.120 You know, that it's her inability to kind of engage with the 278 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.620 people around her that upset her when she was 15 or whatever, that 279 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:18.179 that's, you know, happening now as she sort of troubles with a 280 00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:18.480 doctor. 281 00:14:18.539 --> 00:14:23.220 Like, maybe that's reading too much into, you know, what 282 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:24.480 Chibnall's doing here. 283 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:28.860 But I did at least think that there was some interesting character 284 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:32.580 stuff with those people for the 1st time in a long while. 285 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.059 And it's worth mentioning that Tebow does appear in Spy 4 part 286 00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:36.299 one. 287 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:38.100 So it is kind of set up. 288 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:38.879 Yeah. 289 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:42.779 I feel like my 3rd appearance will be the last of Ryan. 290 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:44.580 Yeah. 291 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.100 I kind of hope that they were together, actually. 292 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.100 For a little while, they were kind of, there was all this sort of 293 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:52.139 you know, shall we touch one another? 294 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:53.639 Are we going to talk, you know? 295 00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:59.460 But it is, it's also that straight guy inability to ask for help 296 00:14:59.460 --> 00:15:02.759 sort of thing that's being kind of illustrated there too, I 297 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.000 think. 298 00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:04.620 All right. 299 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.220 On the topic of Yaz, and I'll be on, I'll be very brief. 300 00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:15.000 I think this stuff has been in her character background the whole 301 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.879 time because if you look back on Arachnids in the UK. 302 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:21.779 Her family are astonished that she has friends coming around. 303 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:22.500 Yeah. 304 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:27.659 And Naja is desperate for her to have a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a 305 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:29.340 significant other whatever. 306 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.179 This is a family who don't know how to deal with what almost 307 00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:34.139 happened to you as. 308 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.379 So they do things like let's have a dinner commemorating it, which 309 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:40.080 is a bit weird, but it's like, okay, well, what else do we do? 310 00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:43.080 You know, where a family who communicates through gatherings and 311 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:43.440 food. 312 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:44.820 So let's chuck that in there. 313 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:47.340 But also, 0 my god, Yazm's got friends. 314 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.159 We must, you know, we must celebrate this as well. 315 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:54.360 Yeah, it's a bit all good, but it's a family trying. just trying 316 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.519 really hard to show their daughter that she's loved. 317 00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:58.799 I read that. 318 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.460 I read that in hindsight, like at the end of the episode. 319 00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:09.899 That interaction over the dinner table as they had this dinner to 320 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.879 celebrate her coming home. 321 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:14.940 Not that she'd she'd run away because... 322 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:16.139 No, no, obviously. all of that. 323 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:16.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 324 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.700 But, and that was a, oh, you know, like she didn't kill herself 325 00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:22.980 with celebrating the fact that we love her and that she came 326 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:23.279 home. 327 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:27.720 Like that, but again, it's not it's not particularly clear. 328 00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:30.240 Yeah, but the thing is to Yaz. 329 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.659 That's what the celebration is about. 330 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.120 And to Sonya, it's like, no, the celebration is that you're still 331 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:37.139 here, not that you left. 332 00:16:38.340 --> 00:16:43.620 All right, let's move on because we're running out of time and we 333 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:48.360 don't want to exceed in length, our actual episode, our 2025 334 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:49.980 episode on this. 335 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:51.240 Tahira. 336 00:16:51.299 --> 00:16:54.539 What did we think about the Aleppo stuff? 337 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:55.919 Peter. 338 00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:58.860 It was a really nice setting. 339 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:04.079 Um, all of those, all those um, CGI shots looked amazing. 340 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.900 I wasn't quite sure why we were there though. 341 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.799 I wasn't quite sure why being in Aleppo in the 14th century was 342 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:11.940 intrinsic to the plot. 343 00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:14.160 Get the doctor away from the others. 344 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:19.980 I also think too, that we might not have been asking that question 345 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:25.500 if it had been, you know, somewhere else, somewhere, I don't know 346 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:28.079 like if it had been, you know, she'd travel back in time to 347 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:29.099 England or something like that. 348 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:32.579 Like it becomes weirder because it is, it is like, why are we 349 00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:33.480 doing Aleppo? 350 00:17:33.539 --> 00:17:37.319 And what the show is trying to do at this point is to broaden 351 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:43.859 where it goes and to include like non-European cultures a little 352 00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:44.220 bit more. 353 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.839 And for me, I thought that, you know, given that Syria is 354 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.420 somewhere where refugees are coming from, you know, it's a place 355 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:55.079 that's in the news and to have this sort of presentation of the 356 00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:00.000 fact that Islam was the religion, the culture that produced the 357 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:00.900 1st hospitals. 358 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.599 I think that's actually a really good thing to do. 359 00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:09.900 Um, and like I wondered why she, what link this had to the rest of 360 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:10.619 the plot. 361 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.359 But the cool thing about it for me was that, well, you know, that 362 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:20.519 she's, that Tahir's, um, crucial to the resolution of the plot 363 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.640 because she created the whatever the hell that monster was 364 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.000 called. 365 00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:28.799 Um, you know, It's a Tom Woodbeast. 366 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.440 Nathan, don't you feel a little bit short-changed because we did 367 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.980 go to what was potentially a very interesting place and then very 368 00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:35.819 little was done with it. 369 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.339 It just formed the backdrop to something that could be anywhere 370 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:38.519 else. 371 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:39.299 Sure. 372 00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:44.819 Yeah, it felt like it was a thematic choice as opposed to a plot 373 00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:45.359 choice. 374 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.299 It was, you know, oh, well, we're doing a theme of mental health. 375 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.440 So let's look at the way mental health was treated in a positive 376 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.759 way back in, you know, way back when, as opposed to going to 377 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.940 bedlam and having people thrown in the whole out. 378 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.799 Yeah, and I'm kind of on board with that. 379 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:07.859 I also think that it is in a way a structural device to tell us 380 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:12.119 that the villain is not bound by time. 381 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.900 They're not so much a time traveller as they can just turn up at 382 00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:17.279 any time and place in the universe. 383 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:22.740 They can simultaneously be in Aleppo in 1380 and in London, not 384 00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:24.720 London, Sheffield, in 2020. 385 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:29.640 Um, I do wonder if like the initial pitch just had hospital and 386 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.819 then I, someone in the writer's room because they do all work 387 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.660 communally just said, does it have to be Sheffield Hospital in 388 00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:37.319 2020? 389 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:38.819 And it's like, well, no, where should we go? 390 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.619 Um, get the Atlas. 391 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.380 Finger points to Aleppo. 392 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:44.039 Actually, fingers. 393 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:45.119 There's an interesting idea. 394 00:19:48.539 --> 00:19:51.240 I'm glad my fingers tickled you. 395 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:54.299 Yeah, we will get we'll get to that in a second. 396 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:59.940 I also think too, that it is that sort of Bob Holmes thing of we 397 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:01.980 have to have a monster. 398 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.000 Where are we gonna get a monster? 399 00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:07.319 You know, the main villains are both, you know, people in wigs or 400 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.579 without wigs. 401 00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:11.819 And we need a sort of scary monster. 402 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:12.779 How are we going to do that? 403 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.799 And so this is how we get a monster to happen, I think. 404 00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:21.299 And the fact that that opening scene was a cold open, which 405 00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:21.839 hooray. 406 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:23.220 Hooray. 407 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.259 Yeah. 408 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.539 Yeah. a really good one. 409 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:30.720 You know, that's our monster. 410 00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:34.920 That's the, uh, that's the magma beast, the magna creature. 411 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.680 Yes, that's a wood. 412 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.640 That episode could only have been improved if the if the monster 413 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:45.059 had been as well produced as Kroll or something like that. 414 00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:46.980 It's pretty good. 415 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.660 Everyone's dissing the monster. 416 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:49.619 I like the monster. 417 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.380 But I think, I think it is like the Aleppo thing was like that 418 00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:58.619 shorthand for, okay, we're going to, we're going to tap into the 419 00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.980 toy maker and the Eternals and and the black and white Guardians 420 00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:03.960 and it's like, well, yeah, they can just turn up there. 421 00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:08.039 And back there, it's quick shorthand to go more powerful than the 422 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:08.339 doctor. 423 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.180 End of story. 424 00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:12.720 Well, let's let's move on to that. 425 00:21:12.779 --> 00:21:16.980 So what did we think of lovely old Zelen and Rakiya? 426 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:18.480 Oh great. 427 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:19.619 Very good. 428 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.700 Yep. 429 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:25.440 Very happy with them Oh, James. 430 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.359 No, I loved them. 431 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:34.140 But Chipnall really doesn't know how to name weird alien 432 00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:34.500 characters. 433 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.539 They have zeds in their names, James. 434 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:37.380 That's sad. 435 00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:40.500 You might as well have been called the terrible Zoden. 436 00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:45.180 James, they come from that planet in the Blake 7 episode. 437 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.460 You know, Zukan and Ziona from Zongor. 438 00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:50.460 Oh dear. 439 00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:56.640 Yeah, I would have preferred they were called the night eaters or 440 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.539 something ridiculous. 441 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:04.200 Like give them a a ridiculous name from a long ago culture instead 442 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.960 of, here's a science fiction name. 443 00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:07.619 Yeah. 444 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.920 Well, I think I've observed before that when it comes to the 445 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.539 creation of alien names. 446 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.599 Chris Chipnell is not Robert Holmes. 447 00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:17.700 Or Russell T. Davis. 448 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.220 And Dave Martin. 449 00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:22.680 Or Stephen Moffatt. 450 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:25.680 Um, I was, I was, Mary Carrots, dicks. 451 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:26.460 Yeah. 452 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:33.839 With the whole speech, he gives of, you know, unlike the Eternals 453 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:34.920 but I'm not the Eternals. 454 00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:36.839 Unlike the Guardians, but I'm not the Guardians. 455 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:38.220 I'm not even the toy maker. 456 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.119 It's both a nice bit of fan service and both, I think. 457 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:46.500 Chris Chipnell just going, for God's sake, I do not want him 458 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.799 reconned in a novel by Gary Russell in 15 years time. 459 00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:50.460 Thank you. 460 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.819 In fact, I thought it was the opposite. 461 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.819 I thought it was actually trying to create a theology of Doctor 462 00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:01.380 Who, where all of these stupid alien eternals that are kind of 463 00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:05.880 pulled out of someone's butt at some point, you know, are all just 464 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:10.559 kind of, you know, um, classified and there's a list of them and 465 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:16.319 they have a club, maybe they have meetings, you know, um, they 466 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.819 hang out with the ones from Star Trek. 467 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:18.960 The omnipotent. 468 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.059 Yeah, yeah, Q, Nagilum. 469 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:21.839 They're all there. 470 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:26.880 Nathan, I believe that's literally divided loyalties by Gary 471 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.420 Russell. 472 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.579 Oh, God. 473 00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:31.319 Or the Dark Path by David McKinty. 474 00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:32.099 It's one of the two. 475 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.319 I just hope Gary's not listening to this. 476 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:35.759 No, we's not. 477 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.359 And if he is, you know I love you, Gary. 478 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:43.440 Any, what about the fingers? 479 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.700 Are we happy with the fingers? 480 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.440 I'm super happy with the fingers. 481 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:48.900 I'm wearing. them now. 482 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.019 What do you call that? 483 00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:53.160 Mind finger banging? 484 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.839 Thanks, James. 485 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.339 No, I wouldn't. 486 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.680 You know what they need to do. 487 00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:00.240 They've missed a trick here. 488 00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:04.019 Like, they should really be releasing a set of Bluetooth 489 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.480 headphones in the shape of fingers. 490 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:12.720 I would wear the crap out of those, I could tell you. 491 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:16.799 And made out of some sort of like, you know, mood, like, like mood 492 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:21.599 dye so that they kind of sort of mottled and changed colour as 493 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.160 they sucked out your thoughts. 494 00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:28.559 You know what, big finish comes out with their range of selen's 495 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.559 fingers meeting the hand of Eldrad and, you know, and Hickson's 496 00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:31.859 Hugh. 497 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.339 Say it 3 times, Peter. 498 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:43.079 All right, well, look, unless anyone has an important closing 499 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.180 statement, we may actually wind up. 500 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.519 I think we've sort of covered all of the main bits. 501 00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:48.900 Anyone? 502 00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:50.880 It was fun. 503 00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:51.480 I liked it. 504 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:52.680 Stop raining on my parade. 505 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:56.279 Yeah, with you, Adam. 506 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:56.880 I loved it. 507 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:58.500 I think structurally flawed. 508 00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:00.599 But yeah, that's the thing. 509 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:04.200 It may it may have been overstuffed, but I will always take 510 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:10.200 overstuffed and imaginative to boring or just not having enough to 511 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:11.220 fill 50 minutes. 512 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.680 The Battle of Ramsker of Colos. 513 00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:15.119 We're looking at you. 514 00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:21.000 Actually, I actually did like it in a lot of ways, but yeah, that 515 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.160 last scene very problematic for me. 516 00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:25.079 Nathan, I appreciate what you're saying earlier. 517 00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.880 I think that was a really good reading of that scene. 518 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:31.619 Um, but, you know, to then make the comedy punchline at the 519 00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.380 expense of, I think, the character who's been the most wounded 520 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.599 amongst the regulars, I don't know about. 521 00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:37.859 Yeah, yeah. 522 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.019 I think it might have been a bit careless. 523 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:41.460 I found that difficult too. 524 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:48.480 Um, it, it kind of, It actually made her feel sort of cold and 525 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:55.619 unthinking and like she didn't care about these characters, they 526 00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:59.160 were just, you know, travelling with her because she was bored and 527 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.519 I, yeah, like that just didn't land for me. 528 00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:05.519 I thought the line, I'm going to think of the right thing to say 529 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.740 is of something company to say, is the line that you go, oh man, I 530 00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:13.980 wish I could just say out loud sometimes when someone is crying at 531 00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.220 me. 532 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:18.119 I want to say the right thing, but I don't know what it is, so I'm 533 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.920 just going to say, oh, dittums. 534 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:20.400 Yeah. 535 00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:24.420 I think, look, I think that's what they were aiming for, but yeah 536 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:25.500 I'm going to walk over here now. 537 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.460 All right. 538 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:37.019 So we will be back next week for Mary Shelley, who is being drawn 539 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:38.940 into this sort of giant mess of ours. 540 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.559 So that will be very exciting. 541 00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:46.500 Um, and uh, I'd like to thank Adam for joining us uh, this week. 542 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:47.099 Oh, hi. 543 00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:48.359 Yes, thank you dear. 544 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:48.900 Thank you. 545 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.740 All right. 546 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:50.220 Thank you. 547 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:56.039 So, until next time, please try to remember that a Chagascar is a 548 00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.759 completely different monster from a crafeus, and it's actually a 549 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:02.640 bit racist, the way you keep accidentally mixing them up. 550 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:05.400 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 551 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:06.720 Good night. 552 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:08.700 Personally I can't see it. 553 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:10.980 Good night.