Fugitive of the Judoon

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome of of Jody of Terror, the only Doctor Who flash cast of no idea of the correct use of English prepositions.

I'm Nathan.

I'm James I'm Todd.

And hello, everyone.

I'm a lovely potpourri of RTD old storylines for this one.

But he only asked, don't I smell free?

Don't I smell free?

Oh, exactly.

And if his head am I wearing?

Yes, call me poop.

So we're obviously there for talking about fugitive of the Jude.

The brain of Morbius.

Sorry, the brain of Morbius, yes.

I thought I'll be talking about, yes.

Well, so let's just go round the round the horn and say very briefly what people thought of it, starting with Richard, I think.

Oh, is they?

Um, what a delight, and an excitement, and just like every sugar rush.

What a, what an, what an interesting effect to the adrenal glands and, and my, my limp afterwards.

[01:03]

Yeah.

I just sort of feel that someone is doing everything you can to rescue whatever it is he's holding onto and I definitely think Auntie has said from on high in in Auntie Flavia's old throne.

Listen, lovey.

You didn't do that well last year.

Why don't you just give us everything that's worked in the past, mix it all up and they won't even notice.

I'm getting lots of lovely um 11th doctor vibe with the way it's shot and the pace and I'm getting lots of lovely next doctor, not that it's anyone's favourite, but it was a charming romp.

And I'm getting lots of other lovely, delicious things all put together and it feels like I've got my face in a chocolate box.

I think there's a bit of utopia in there for sure.

Hello.

Yeah.

All right.

Todd.

I want you to imagine the great thing of Metabius.

And I want you to imagine her discovering that there's one final blue crystal left.

And then the excitement builds as the blue crystal arrives, and then she goes into sort of a spasm at the whole thing getting slotted into its spinal position and the gloriousness of it.

[02:08]

And then the brain is on fire at what the hell has just happened.

And that was my episode.

Oh, that's lovely.

And really scary image too.

James.

Um, I really enjoyed it.

I, I would agree, and I think, um, actually, Peter made a similar point to you, Richard. on our group chat this week that, yeah, how refreshing it was to see the next doctor redone well.

Um, yeah.

Because it is a, it's a very similar kind of kind of reveal, isn't it?

Except.

It is actually the doctor as opposed to a a person who thinks they're the doctor.

Um, No, I I really enjoyed it.

Um, I did not see it coming, um, which is, I think, impressive from this era of the show, which has struggled with doing things, like, and twists well, and, um, And I, look, I, I think she, she is fantastic.

[03:22]

Jay Martin.

Doc Martin.

I'm sorry.

Doc Doc Martin.

Oh, I thought you meant Lee.

I was absolutely tragically struck to see the death of Susan this week.

Someone called him Romana, I think.

So I'm just going to say that I agree with Richard in that this is all stuff that's been done before, including his, you know, previously unknown doctor.

So she's the John Hearst of this week's episode, who even got it and introducing Joe Martin as the doctor in the closing credits.

But like, I think stealing from episodes that are, you know, reasonably old is forgivable, and certainly when the result is as enjoyable as it is.

And it wasn't all stolen.

You know, like the big reveals on the big plot beats are all things that we've sort of seen before, but I think it produced something that was really just a very fun episode.

Well before any of that sort of nonsense started to happen, actually.

[04:25]

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

So in particular, I want to talk about the Jadoon.

How did we find the Jadoon in their 2nd Doctor Who outing?

Second?

Well, the 2nd proper one.

Yeah, yeah. improved and believable, I would say.

Actually, he had salience to the plot and, you know, helped the plot along rather than one of Russell's, as, as Nathan is fond of saying, animal head in a, in a, I'm sorry, what what scale of our podcast is this?

What rating do we have?

We are swearing food.

In flexible suits, let's say.

Well, they've redone the animatronics on the hero, Jadune.

It's much, much more expressive.

And you've got brilliant Nick Briggs doing the voice who is acting his socks off.

And so like when Jody tells the Jadoon that she's disappointed in it, it does a little kind of sad face and like it does, it does some really, really fabulously funny reactions.

So I thought they were great.

[05:26]

You know, they have the same spaceships as before, only redesigned for HD.

I thought they were really good, you know, maybe even better than their 1st appearance. agree.

What did you think, Todd?

Yeah, I was so excited and they were just as ruthless, you know, watching people, especially when they got rid of that old woman and Marcia and her knitting.

I did laugh my head off when the knitting, when I was a bit sad when she got killed.

Like, I mean, she's 150% a better actor than that other wench we had a couple of weeks ago.

So no, I just...

I was really like, I really, I thought they were great and I loved all the scenes they were in and I was excited up to that and then my excitement sort of went through the roof.

Yeah, yeah.

Even, that's what I think, even when the Jadoon were just in it, when it was just a silly midseason Jadoon romp, it was a really good, silly midseason Jadoon romp, but I was really enjoying it, I think, before it all kind of spiralled out of control.

[06:27]

Yes, yes.

I mean, I have to wonder, is, is this um, his master plan, like his torchwood master plan, have a really terrible 1st season and then start...

No, and then start season quite solid and then all hell breaks loose mid-season and he's just going to stick the landing.

We'll see.

That could be, you know.

We haven't mentioned the jack in the box yet, have we?

So that's what we'll move on to next.

Were you happy to see Jack return, Richard?

Well, speaking of animatronic new heads.

I'm fascinating.

Fascinating to see that out.

The mono.

Yeah, the monothematic palette of chocolate brown hair and latex head.

It was very much the Roger Moore school of brave acting, but, yes, he's always lovely in Doctor Who, like I've always said, he's, he's, Barriman is absolutely wonderful in Doctor Who, and foul in anything else.

I've never seen him in.

No, I love him and Dr. and I hope we get another taste.

[07:28]

Uncle Chibers has said that's the last you'll see.

So of course he'll be in every episode from now on.

I think I think the statement that he says, oh, I'll see you later or I probably won't see you for a while, probably rules him out of this season, but I need to hear Andrew Allard speculate that maybe we'd see him in the New Year's special in 2021 if such a thing ends up happening.

I expect when we're talking about the timeless child that we might have just met him.

Ah, yes, that's entirely possible.

Possibly.

What did you think, James?

About about Jack.

There's a lot of Vaseline on that lens.

Oh, darling, not just on the loan.

This is a G-rated podcast, Richard.

I totally agree.

I thought that some of his lines were a bit too, I don't know, we're trying to do RTD and perhaps not quite succeeding in a few things.

[08:29]

But his, but the voice coming in, I just sort of sat there going, 0 my goodness, like you're kidding me.

No.

Like, I mean, it was just like my jaw was like already half open going, they really have got him back and I was really excited when I saw him.

What was that?

I mean, he is basically there to distract the companion so that Jody can get on with the episode.

It is, you know, all one set.

Nothing happens.

It's a children in need sketch, you know, essentially.

But, you know, Chiba's broadest, you know, Jack in Torchwood.

And so, you know, I'm happy to give him a go at Jack.

And it is nice to see him after all of the easy years.

So it'll be fun to see him, but it was, it was all a little bit nothing, and it was very much, he is a completely inconsequential B plot.

And I have to say, like, I'm not a big fan of the, you know, why is he being enigmatic, you know, like, uh, the known cyberman don't give him what he what he wants.

[09:35]

Like, give us some details, man.

Why make a guess?

You clearly know something.

It's like any science fiction cliche where they have these people say these things and then they disappear before they get to say everything.

And so in the end they just say nothing at all and and it's, I mean, I didn't mind that, but I thought that's very cliched, you know, and I've seen it before.

You know what you're describing, Todd, don't you?

And I've just realised who Jack, I've just realised who Jack is.

He's miss- he's the Mrs Chievely in any Oscar Wilde 2nd act.

He's the unwedded mother with the shameless past that comes in and stirs up the plot, but in the end everything goes back to normal by act 3.

Yeah.

I was kind of thinking that he's the lovely old woman on the Basin Planet of the Dead.

You know.

Oh, he probably is her too, you know.

He's not ageing great.

Yeah, he's ageing quite pouchually.

I mean, and very orange too.

So yeah, it's possible.

Um, cool, or he's actually, he is actually just playing the face of bow now.

[10:38]

Yeah, popping up, popping up for 2 minutes in an episode, going, Yeah, you are not alone.

That is textbook enigmatic, I guess, you know.

And I thought he was in like the Rani's lab from Time in Iran, but anyway.

Nice there.

Apparently that's a church.

Yeah, I saw that.

And they had to map out an organ in the corner.

Yeah, and it's still there in the trailer.

So it was in the trailer and then they had, they matched it up by the time the episode was broadcast.

I can see Jack flying around with a massive organ.

I have no problem with that.

No, completely in character.

All right, so let's talk about Dr. Martin or Doc Martin or Dr. Ruth?

Doc Martin.

Did we notice that?

I love the costume, by the way.

I thought of you, Richard, because you, you don't like Jody's costume and I suspect that you had wanted her to wear something rather elegant, something like, you know, the 2nd Romana might have worn.

[11:48]

And instead she's wearing the sort of charity shop thing, which, you know, like I don't kind of mind, but I totally get.

And here comes the doctor wearing something, like you're not going to put that on to nip down to the shops or anything.

But it is a fabulous doctor-ish outfit and it just suits her perfectly.

She's a proper piratical bucket.

Yeah, with some lovely nods to West African tribal art in the shirt and it's all quite beautifully made, but it also looks like every Fangirl dream of what, what she'd dress up if she were indeed the doctor.

So yes, cosy wise, I think Peter might have already said it.

No, Jody's outfit is really not helping me.

I'm actually having the same problems I had with Collins, and I'm surprised it's that much, but it just seems to, so many things are working against her performance.

I think she definitely got it right this time.

There was gravitas and positioning and there we say poise because she did, she, she was positioned on an edge and I could, and I could feel her strategising and her stress during it.

[12:52]

It was very nicely played.

Um, as to Joe Martin, I, I always like to, I've always felt that the doctor has always nailed the part.

It's unfair to say you work your way into it.

I think Colin was actually very strong in twin dilemma, so most of us didn't like it, but he was very much the doctor as he wanted to play it.

So I'm fair to say he didn't have it right from seeing one.

I'd have to say, an apologies to Joe and maybe the director, but, and I know I'll get slammed for this because again, it's really easy to read performance values and standards as well with, you know, with everything else that comes into an episode, but it just didn't feel doctorly to me.

It was fun and buccanary, but it, and she was strong, but maybe the transformation from Ruth to the doctor wasn't great enough for me to register a change in character.

Oh, see, I feel quite differently from that because I feel that Ruth is so well established.

And, you know, you get those opening few minutes before, you know, she says goodbye to Lee.

[13:53]

That interaction is really fun, Susan.

She's wonderful.

She pats a little dog.

She says hello to Reggie, the swan.

You know, she's she's so sweet.

She gives that nerdy, fun fact about Gloucester cathedral.

And then and then she's instantly, like, really quite, like, she's odd and doctory and stuff, but quite steely and cold.

And you wonder, it makes you wonder what his experience, you know?

And even the thing, like, oh, it's the doctor, she's toting a gun, and then you realise, no, no, no, you know, she would never shoot anyone with a gun.

She's still out. thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and then sort of tricked someone.

Yeah, but, but, you know, I did like that take in the doctor.

I totally on board with the glasses.

I loved how the 2 of them interacted with one another.

And there's that snarky interaction about how she says she's too smart to use, the Sonic Screwdriver, and I'd love Jody's delivery of that line.

[14:59]

Nothing says smart, like a laser gun.

You know, like she was so great.

The 2 of them, I thought, sparked beautifully.

What did you think, Todd?

I sit somewhere between, I think, to both of you, as you know, I think Jody's doing much better this year.

I think she's got the, I think she's got the McCoy master plan where the 1st season where we don't really know what we're doing, but now we're more mysterious and snarky and moody and it's really working for her.

And I thought her performance is great again, but the costume just works against her constantly.

I agree with you, Richard.

Dr. Ruth.

I just thought the whole, the moment the whole thing twisted with her being revealed as the, as the one they were after and then the moment the police box was in the sand and I'm going, my brain was just exploding.

But I just thought she was phenomenal and she was the doctor for me in a way that Jody has not been the doctor, like it's taken Jody, you know, earlier.

[16:01]

Whereas straight away, it was like, this is the woman. this is the doctor for me and I'm really hoping that it really does go somewhere.

What about you, James?

Look, someone on Twitter today might have been one of our, one of our many fans.

The 2 of them. basically said that they wanted to see a series of the 2 of them flying around in time and says, oh, was it Colin Neal?

Colin Neil wants them to alternate to do ones that one episode, eight, apiece?

Um, yeah.

Occasionally, occasionally meet up to, to, um, throw shade at each other.

That's what I was talking about.

No, um, like I, I really enjoyed her portrayal.

I, the, all the questions that it's throwing up, which we're going to get to in a 2nd just, uh, it's exciting me in a way that Doctor Who hasn't for years.

[17:07]

I mean, I've enjoyed Doctor Who.

There have been moments which I've like had sort of famished glee over, but this is sort of firing my, what the hell is happening, kind of, instinct, and that's, and that is something I've really missed, and.

It's, it's just so refreshing to to be good, wondering what the hell is going on.

Um, and I'm really looking forward to finding out.

I hope we find out a bit more before the end of the season, but we probably won't.

All right.

Okay, so it's the last section of today's episode and we are getting our Adam Richard on.

You all have a theory.

So what is your theory about who this doctor really is?

I'm going to start with you, Todd.

Oh.

Well, I suspect it's going to be before Hart and all.

And if that's the case, I will be very cheesed off.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

[18:09]

I'm hoping it'll be something different and more cleverer than that.

Yeah, me too.

What about you, Richard?

Well, my 1st thought was time schisms and the alternate universe created by the master, perhaps, with the destruction of gallantry, but I like organic, um, seasonal plot threads, even though Moffat, you know, for, for all we, you know, he might, he might have, you know, achieved this more in the breach, as we say, but at least he aimed for them.

And I, I, I want to see something that, that does all strand together.

It doesn't have to make logical sense, but I really don't want to see what I saw again last year.

I want something more a little bit more.

It doesn't have to be hugely epic, but just respectful to, to the threads that have been woven.

So, again, yeah, so the fan rumour is pre-heartened, but that's just so linear.

It really doesn't do any of the work justice.

Um, I, I'd like, I'd like to be thoroughly surprised and whatever I come up with will be completely wrong because I was thoroughly surprised this week.

[19:10]

So yes, let's hope they keep that up.

I agree.

Cool.

And and and James?

I'm sort of sitting on the fence between...

Well, Chibnall's already said that it's not an alternate universe version of the character.

So, in the day... mirror to be fair.

Well, I mean, like, yes, credited in the jelly mirror, but I think that actually did come from somewhere.

And then been right before.

So, yeah.

Once or twice.

In their entire history.

Um, I kind of like the idea that's floating around that it's, it's a season 6, B, or C, um, version of the doctor between Troughton and Pertwee?

So that doesn't explain why she doesn't know what a sonic screwdriver is.

Exactly.

Or that it's actually a doctor from far in the future who has lost her memory somehow, um, maybe in some sort of cataclysm, where she's saving Gallifrey from being destroyed.

[20:21]

Yes, well, we have previously said that we now expect Gallifrey to be regularly destroyed and reinstated from here on, in as the show moves from showrunner to showrunner.

So maybe she lost her mind in the next destruction of Gallifrey or the next reinstatement of Gallifrey.

Look, I don't buy.

I don't buy the 6C thing.

I don't buy the pre-heartnal thing.

I think there are hints there and I think they're deliberate.

You know, Chibnell knows as much about Doctor Who as we do.

So the TARDIS is a police box, so it's not pretty heartnal, and she doesn't know what a Sonic screwdriver is.

There's no way that he would deliberately get that wrong.

So I'm going...

I do think it is in some way associated with the master because I think this is the wrong master for this universe in a way.

He seems to be a sort of someone who's regenerated more or less directly from Anthony Ainley with his tissue compression eliminator or something like that.

He doesn't seem to have undergone any sort of missy like 2nd thoughts about being evil and that wasn't even mentioned.

[21:26]

I would like to think that it's all kind of, um, it's all, that the answer is somewhere in, in that character as well.

But that's really all kind of I know.

All right, we might wind it up, but does anyone have any urgent closing statements?

Look, all I've got to say is that I was super excited by the whole thing and it's, it was one of, and like James, it was one of the most exciting episodes that I've seen in years.

And, you know, I loved so much of the Moffat stuff, but this was just, I just found it thrilling and my jaw just kept hitting the floor.

And I thought, well, bring it on, bring it on.

Yep, yep.

With you.

Do you think, um, do you think that um, Susan would get a job at bathrooms for you, Richard.

Plunges, aren't there?

They would be very triggering.

I can just I can just imagine her.

Of course, we have to work out who all is Alan is, because he knows things that others don't know, although he disappeared very, very quickly.

[22:31]

I'm hoping he wasn't Susan.

No, I think, I think we've, we've, we've probably, there'll be a spinoff at big finish anyway, so we'll all find out very quickly.

Yeah, sure.

All right.

Just say it 3 times.

All right.

So we might wind that up there.

So we'll be back next week, obviously, with the episode that was sort of very heavily kind of teased at the end of this episode. which is called cracks, yes.

I don't know how to pronounce it, but that's what it's called.

And so we will be back the same time next week.

Nathan, I do pitch any writer who has to follow this episode.

Oh, it's Peter, though, here.

Yeah.

I just realised who Alan is with his big ears and his acidically iced cakes, his Yartec leader of the alien pool.

He'll be back.

Hell be back when we find out who the Kassavanar anyway.

All right.

So until next time, when you meet the parallel future mind-wiped alien clone alternative hyperspace quantum reality, Jackson Lake version of yourself, may they have a real appreciation for the way you dress.

[23:35]

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

See you of soon.

Good vending.