WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:49:29 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.539 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody and to Terra, the only Doctor Who flash cast that remembers to call its loved ones from time to time. 2 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:13.800 Just so they don't turn up at our workplace with a whole bunch of explosives. 3 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:15.359 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:15.419 --> 00:00:17.640 I'm James I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:32.039 I'm Todd, and we are, we've just finished watching mere days ago, Orphan 55, and so we are here to give you our hot take on that. 6 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:41.280 And I thought we would start because this seems to have been an episode that has landed in quite different ways with different people over the last few days. 7 00:00:41.340 --> 00:00:47.280 So why don't we just sort of go around the table and talk about what each of us thought, Todd? 8 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:56.219 I thought when it was good, it was spectacular, and when it was utterly crap, it was also spectacular. 9 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.920 That's going on the DVD set. 10 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:05.700 Who are you and what have you done with Todd? 11 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.060 I was on this roller coaster ride. 12 00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:13.680 It was just, it was just fabulous, fun moment I was going, oh, yes, the next moment I was going. 13 00:01:13.739 --> 00:01:16.739 Yes, that's great. 14 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.579 I want to steal that. 15 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.000 I'm going to record myself saying it and edit it back into the conversation. 16 00:01:24.420 --> 00:01:26.519 That's exactly it. 17 00:01:26.579 --> 00:01:27.480 Brilliant. 18 00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:28.859 What about you, Brandon? 19 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:35.280 Um, look, it's kind of weird because from any critical standpoint. 20 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:37.560 I'm like, what the hell have I just watched? 21 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.980 But I found it incredibly enjoyable. 22 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:45.060 I thought this is a tribute to zombie movies. 23 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:47.340 I said in my walk to work with Whittaker. 24 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.540 There are a couple of shots, which I felt were directly cribbed from the original dawn of the dead. 25 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.519 Look, I... 26 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:55.140 Objectively speaking. 27 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:59.640 I think it was pretty awful, but I can't help but enjoy myself. 28 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:07.019 So if you imagine like a thumbs up being 90 degrees and a thumbs down being -90 degrees. 29 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:10.319 It's a 10% thumbs up from me. 30 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:22.319 As I said to Fred, as I said to a friend of the podcast, Anson, who kind of agree with me, I said, it's not as good as Rosa, but it's not as bad as the Battle of Ranscor Avcolos. 31 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:24.719 That's most things, actually. 32 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:30.840 All right, you're here to we in our breakfast cereal, James. 33 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:36.300 Orphan 55 horse. 34 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:37.860 I've always did it, ravelocks. 35 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:45.000 I, I, I said this to Nathan earlier today. 36 00:02:45.060 --> 00:02:53.099 I really wasn't sure about coming on the podcast today because I was underwhelmed when I watched it and I was even more underwhelmed when I watched it again yesterday. 37 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:55.919 I don't know. 38 00:02:55.979 --> 00:02:58.199 It was oh, it was a mess. 39 00:02:58.259 --> 00:03:00.060 It was an enjoyable mess. 40 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:01.620 It was just a mess. 41 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.460 I, I, I kind of, yeah. 42 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:10.139 Take a breath, James, because I think you're about to go into notes only dogs can hear. 43 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:11.819 That was something... 44 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.280 Yes, I'm I'm sitting sitting here. 45 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:18.120 I'm sitting here with the cat next to me and she was wincing. 46 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:22.680 So, look, I... 47 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:24.780 Yeah, I just, I don't know. 48 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:25.680 I don't know. 49 00:03:25.740 --> 00:03:27.479 And there were bits that I loved. 50 00:03:27.539 --> 00:03:28.860 There were bits that I hated. 51 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:30.180 Yeah. 52 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:35.879 I, I'm almost on the verge of a, of a Todd Rant. 53 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:41.520 I think you all expected to meet me to do a De Sango conundrum, right? 54 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:42.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 55 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:43.560 But I'm not going to. 56 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.159 I can do that for you. 57 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:54.419 Well, let's let's leave it until we let's talk about the individual bits of the episode that annoyed you. 58 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:55.740 But just let me say. 59 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:56.699 Yeah. 60 00:03:56.759 --> 00:03:57.539 Oh, yeah, sorry. 61 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:01.680 You go 1st because I've got Richard's comments here as well, which, okay, all right. 62 00:04:01.740 --> 00:04:06.120 So I'm doing the full Tod, as I said, before we started recording. 63 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:12.240 Todd normally hates an episode when it 1st comes out and then 12 years later, it's wonderful. 64 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.780 And I went through that process in a matter of 2 days. 65 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.420 So I didn't like it the 1st time I saw it. 66 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:25.259 The floors in the script were like hugely apparent and I wasn't sort of massively keen on the sort of monster movie thing. 67 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:27.060 But I watched it again today. 68 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:29.339 And I mean, that's kind of a ridiculous thing. 69 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:30.899 It was a Doctor Who monster movie. 70 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.139 That's exactly what Doctor Who should be doing. 71 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.339 And I thought it was like terrifically enjoyable. 72 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:50.399 And all of the things that, like, are frankly, are frankly ridiculous in the script, um, are just terribly funny and and weird and fabulous. 73 00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:51.839 So I'm totally on board. 74 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:53.759 What did what did Richard have to say? 75 00:04:53.819 --> 00:05:00.660 So Richard had to say, and I might do this as Julian Andor Sandy in honour of Richard. 76 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:11.339 My only thoughts are that a 3 act light operetta from 1977 probably shouldn't have received Brandy's Soutec time spasm and been shunted to 2020. 77 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:16.620 It's a nice manually driven piece with shunting Robert Hyndein gears. 78 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:22.620 But we all saw this before Lyka let out her last bark. 79 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:29.639 Even the dregs are from our Ariausen sketch from the 70s, but it was nice enough desert emoji. 80 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:33.180 Yeah, so that's Richard's thoughts. 81 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:33.779 Okay. 82 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:38.459 We'll get back to them again in 2025, I think. 83 00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:41.819 So let's talk regulars. 84 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:45.240 How do we feel the regulars were served this time? 85 00:05:46.680 --> 00:06:06.180 I was I was deeply concerned coming into this because last week was such a tour tour for Sasha and Jody lifted her game and and last week was the 1st time Jody Whittaker did not annoy me. in an episode of Doctor Who, and so I at all, at all. 86 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:22.740 So in her 13th episode as the 13th doctor, she finally arrived and so coming into this, I thought, don't let her do anything silly or stupid, and I thought she was, she held the whole thing together. 87 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:32.160 She had some awful dialogue and an horrible, overexplanation things to deal with and I thought she just did spectacularly. 88 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:37.019 And all the silly humour stuff went to Ryan and to Graham and they do that so well. 89 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:39.180 And I thought, yes, yes, yes. 90 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.019 And then, well, Paul Yaz is one Lamington away from losing it completely. 91 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:49.860 I mean, she's either going to, you know, I can't see her getting to the end of the season without exploding at the doctor or joining team master. 92 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:51.120 There you go. 93 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:58.680 Yeah, that's a popular theory at the moment that Yaz is getting disillusioned with the doctor and you know what? 94 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:00.600 I can kind of see this here because. 95 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:05.759 Oh, okay, we'll talk about the guest cars later, but there's a certain emotional reaction. 96 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:16.379 Yaz has to a certain death in this story and look, the emotional reaction for the audience entirely comes from Mandip's reaction and mine. 97 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:19.139 We may as well say it's when Vilma gets killed, isn't it? 98 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:20.220 It's when Vilma gets killed. 99 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:22.379 Or it's the death of the planet Earth. 100 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:27.540 Um, The fact that the fact that she has such a huge problem. 101 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:40.379 And actually, I, that was one of the things I liked about this episode was the, was the horror from her was really believable when, when, and then, then the, how long have you known? 102 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:43.379 She's the one who works it out too. 103 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:47.579 She doesn't work out that they're on earth, but she does work out who the dregs are. 104 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:49.199 Like that's her shit. 105 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:54.180 And I think the script throws that away a little bit too much, but it is definitely her doing it. 106 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.819 I thought all of them were great. 107 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:14.100 Maybe Graham gets a little bit less to do this time, but you know, I did like the scene of the doctor sort of sitting between Ryan and Bella and kind of putting a stop to, you know, the flirting that was going on in a sort of lovely, oblivious way. 108 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:15.540 I thought there was six. 109 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:16.500 Yes, please, we're British. 110 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.319 No hanky-panky in the space bus. 111 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:22.620 The armoured space bus. 112 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.439 Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, tinfoil. 113 00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:26.519 Tin foil armour. 114 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:27.000 Yeah, sure. 115 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.080 Do we have anything more on that or should we move on to the guests? 116 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.899 Oh, please, let's move on to the guest. 117 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:38.759 Yeah, all right, please. 118 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:41.340 I think this is where the script falls down a little bit. 119 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:43.500 What do you think, Todd? 120 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:52.860 Well, well, yes, I'm just going to talk about, I just need to talk about Benny, Benny, my, Benny, what have you done with Benny? 121 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:59.100 She was so crap and the crap air, she got the more I was there in anticipation going, when is she going to die? 122 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:00.240 How was she going to die? 123 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:04.919 And then when she died, I just couldn't stop laughing and laughing and laughed. 124 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:07.139 It was just spectacular. 125 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:18.059 And I just couldn't believe that like in the classic series, we had to wait. for one story before the season 12 opener to get the Jenny Laird Award. 126 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:22.139 And now in the new series, one story after the series 12 opener. 127 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:27.899 We've now got our new queen of, of awards for, for, for knew who. 128 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:29.639 Oh my god, she was... 129 00:09:29.700 --> 00:09:32.159 It was wonderful. 130 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:33.419 And that's the character. 131 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:33.840 Sorry. 132 00:09:33.899 --> 00:09:36.539 She did hammer films and all sorts of things. 133 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:38.399 She's had a sort of massive career. 134 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:43.860 And I just wonder whether she was sort of pitching it just completely wrong. 135 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:45.059 It was super weird. 136 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:55.379 Think about the way Foon reacts to Morvin dying in Voyager the Damned, which is absolutely, you know, an analogous situation. 137 00:09:55.740 --> 00:10:02.279 She doesn't change kind of approach to acting at all before he's dead after he's dead. 138 00:10:02.340 --> 00:10:04.139 It's all sort of more or less roughly the same. 139 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:06.179 It is an odd performance. 140 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:19.679 Oh, and what the hell with the whole Benny not dying just for the sake of the plot for a good half an hour after he's been taken by these these creatures who have killed every single other person. 141 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:20.580 Why? 142 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:22.679 It seems like there's something missing there. 143 00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:23.700 Yeah. 144 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:24.539 Yeah. 145 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:29.039 Like, I couldn't even work out what was going on, and it's not entirely clear what Kane says. 146 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:31.379 Like Kane says, you know, I killed him. 147 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:36.899 He was having too much, he asked me to, and it was like he was having too much fun. 148 00:10:36.899 --> 00:10:43.200 And it's not clear whether the he there is a, is Benny or the, or a drag. 149 00:10:43.259 --> 00:10:47.100 And some people have said, oh, is he mutating into a drag? 150 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:48.659 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 151 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.840 Well, I mean, maybe that's how evolution works in Doctor Who. 152 00:10:51.899 --> 00:10:52.379 I don't know. 153 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:59.340 But like he just didn't seem to be sort of particularly like if the if the drag was chewing his limbs off or something, do you know what I mean? 154 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:00.840 He needed to be put out of his misery. 155 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:05.639 He certainly isn't showing that in his vocal performance, speaking over the theme. 156 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:06.960 Yeah, exactly. 157 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:21.779 Yeah, I think that maybe there's, and you know what, my biggest problem with, I, I, like, I, I generally have a positive response to the last season and a half. 158 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:29.580 But it still feels like there may be most of these episodes are maybe a couple of drafts off a final. 159 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:39.059 Yeah, they just need a bit more work and and that is something that's like really struck me with this episode. 160 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:51.000 It was like, either Benny should have been mutating and there should have been a plot point that are going, well, you know, the earth has changed so much that these people are mutating because of something in the atmosphere. 161 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:58.860 Um, or, or he should have been an immense horrific trauma and pain. 162 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:00.659 Yeah, certainly. 163 00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:01.379 Yeah. 164 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:07.259 They don't do it so that that joke, will you marry me kind of, they're supposed to be, you know, a written, not a joke. 165 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.559 It's supposed to be a sort of huge plot beat, you know, will you marry me? 166 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:11.940 Now will someone come out and kill me? 167 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.559 But that doesn't land anyway. 168 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.240 We could have done without it. 169 00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:19.320 See, to be honest with you, I love that line. 170 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:23.639 I found it so darkly comic and I think it's more... 171 00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:27.960 I think it's one of the few jokes that is, that lands exactly as it's meant to. 172 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:35.039 But I agree that, yeah, we don't know what is happening to Benny Kane does have a line of they're playing with him. 173 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:35.879 Yeah. 174 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:49.500 You know, but it's, it's still kind of like, as you say, either have him in immense pain or see, or see him outside the van, the, as a, yeah, space space van, and, you know, see that half his body's changed already. 175 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:51.000 Even when they get out of the van. 176 00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:55.379 It's like hyphen with the 3 is very unceremoniously dispatched. 177 00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:56.580 And I love hyphen with a 3. 178 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:58.320 She's a crap furry from the future. 179 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.259 I really loved her in spaceballs. 180 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:09.539 My theory is, my theory is that furries are now just, they're fine. 181 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.039 They're all widely accepted. 182 00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:15.299 You know, they're not down the bottom of the nerd pecking order or whatever that thing is. 183 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:16.500 And they do it via body mods? 184 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.240 Well, no, I think she's just got a hat and, you know, like her tail sticking out. 185 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:25.019 You know, how about Kane and Bella? 186 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:28.500 Bella, yes, Kane, no. 187 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:45.659 See, I, I, Kane, Kane is actually, um, but David Tennant's love interest in Casanova, she was actually the kind of female lead, and I was wondering where I'd seen her before, and she's sort of very striking looking and stuff, and she sort of does the sort of standard Ripley thing. 188 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:50.580 But it's just another plot where I thought that people were just behaving massively weirdly. 189 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.779 Like, you know, why doesn't she send the kid a birthday card every year? 190 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.279 Why does the kid? 191 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.879 Like, like, Bella literally says she didn't come to any of my birthdays. 192 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.159 So I've brought a whole heap of films around. blow up her workplace. 193 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:06.779 I don't know. 194 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:08.940 It doesn't seem like a proportionate reaction to me. 195 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.360 Does she create that whole place anyway? 196 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:21.360 and then with all those things, you know, and and and and then she knows there's a nest and they're just hibernating like when they walk through. 197 00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:22.620 Oh, I don't know all that stuff. 198 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:24.720 I was just they're going, well, you know. 199 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:27.240 Yeah, whatever the plot on the page. 200 00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:28.919 Yeah, it's service a plot. 201 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:30.179 It doesn't make any sense. 202 00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:34.679 It's just in service of getting from part, from point A to point B to point C. 203 00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:37.679 Yeah, that's what I found frustrating, I think. 204 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:38.759 It's so linear. 205 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.419 I mean, it's from the moment you meet uh, Velma. 206 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:49.740 Um, and Benny and Yaz interrupts him trying to propose, like he's going to die. 207 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.259 Yeah, yeah, yeah, so obvious. 208 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.019 There was no twist. 209 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.639 Like, even the whole, you know, what are these creatures thing? 210 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:11.100 Like, the only twist in the entire story, really, is that it's planet Earth and that really, it's kind of obvious. 211 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:18.240 The other twist was when Kane suddenly came back from the dead at the end, when she seemed to herself sacrificed herself. 212 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:24.600 And where did her, where did her offsider go, all the way through seemed to be there and then he wasn't there and then, you know, he was... 213 00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:26.519 He gets killed on the 1st attack on the. 214 00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:27.539 Yeah, yeah. 215 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.340 He's very beautiful. 216 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:34.860 I posted a picture of him in a t-shirt on Twitter with which got some attention. 217 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:41.220 Then I found him semi-naked and... 218 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.179 Yeah, no, he gets killed very, very quickly. 219 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:52.379 Um, and I guess there's there's Silas and Nevy. 220 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:53.460 Is that what he's called? 221 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:54.600 Yeah. 222 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:56.820 Superfluous. 223 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.840 Arterly superfluous. 224 00:15:57.899 --> 00:15:58.500 Do you think? 225 00:15:58.559 --> 00:15:59.399 I think, yeah. 226 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:06.600 Yeah, I mean, the thing that annoyed me was just the thing where he goes out into the corridor. 227 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:19.860 He has that the kid has a little tantrum and sort of runs off into the corridor where he knows there are, you know, drags, but within like 2 or 3 minutes he's reunited with his father anyway. 228 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:34.139 And it just seemed to be like a really kind of thin arc, you know, like it's, it's Silas is finally recognised for the great, you know, mechanic he is, blah, blah, blah. and it's actually just not very interesting. 229 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.039 No, I was, I was sitting there going, could we just... 230 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:44.580 I had to endure that chipmunk based child back, tweaks during his dark materials. 231 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:46.019 He had a few weeks off. 232 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:52.440 Well, it felt like every single week he was there and I just wanted him to die so much. 233 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:57.120 I just wanted, I just wanted Tim Shaw to turn off and do a truth extraction one by one. 234 00:16:57.179 --> 00:16:59.639 I would have just been, oh, that have been fantastic. 235 00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:03.059 He's actually quite a good actor, but the whole thing with all of them. 236 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.019 And the guy from in between us, I just thought he was wasted a bit, really. 237 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:07.980 Yeah. 238 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:08.400 Yeah. 239 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.039 I, you know, sorry, go on. 240 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:23.099 I was just, I was just going to say, it seems to me the director, Lee Haven Jones. who I thought did a good job with Spifle part 2 has not told anyone how they're meant to act. 241 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:30.059 So everyone, except, I think, for Bella and hyphen, give a middle of the road performance because they're waiting for some direction. 242 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.960 And we've, I, we've seen that style of acting in the Star Wars prequels. 243 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:37.079 And that really seems to be what it is. 244 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:51.359 You know, it's kind of, oh, generic old person acting, generic base commander acting, generic, slightly useless dad acting, you know, and it's just like, it's, it's, no one feels like they've been told what to do. 245 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:54.059 It was true, Doctor Who. 246 00:17:54.119 --> 00:18:01.859 For me, I think, for me, I think the problem is that there's he's trying to do too much in 47 minutes or whatever. 247 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:10.500 And so you've got these 3 family groups, all of which has have an arc, none of which really work and some of which are sort of spectacularly dumb. 248 00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:22.680 And you just think this was so much better done in midnight or in Horror of Fang Rock, or even in Voyage of the Damned, you know, where everyone has a character moment, we know who everyone is. 249 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:24.660 We care a bit about people. 250 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.480 Like, you don't have to have this sort of thing. 251 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:33.720 And I just thought that the, the, the, Bella Kane thing was like super weird. 252 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:35.400 And those are the things. 253 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:38.279 I think those are the things that are kind of silliest in the script. 254 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.400 But watching it again. 255 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:42.480 They do. 256 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:43.799 Oh, here we go. 257 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.140 It's our timer. 258 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:47.279 Watching them again. 259 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:53.579 It all seemed a bit less important to me than the actual kind of main monster thing. 260 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.759 Can we talk about the monsters and maybe the message. 261 00:18:56.819 --> 00:18:58.500 How did we think the dregs worked? 262 00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:00.900 I think they looked good. 263 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:05.220 Yeah, brilliant design and, you know, practical design. 264 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:10.799 It would have been really tempting to do that with CG, but no, that's a, you know, that's a few suits. 265 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:12.539 And they look quite a few. 266 00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:15.059 You know what that reminds me of? 267 00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:16.079 primeval. 268 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:17.519 Yes, yeah. 269 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:19.859 Like the future predator. 270 00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:20.819 With the future predator. 271 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:21.119 Yeah. 272 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.220 Not that that's a bad thing. 273 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:24.180 They were great. 274 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.019 They were great. 275 00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:27.720 Monsters. 276 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:29.759 And they were done with CG, weren't they, for the most part? 277 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:30.180 Yeah, yeah. 278 00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:35.339 I believe so what to do with practical effects, which have it be so successful. 279 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.380 No complaints there. 280 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:43.980 Should we move on to the the parable? 281 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:51.059 Well, yeah, I mean, does anyone have anything more to say about those particular monsters though, and then we'll move on and do that? 282 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:58.259 I still don't quite get how the doctor managed to talk that lead one to go into the cage and small places with her. 283 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.039 It was stupid. 284 00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:00.539 I mean, like it was stupid. 285 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:14.160 And like, like, why did it, like, like, it agrees not to kill them because, um, you know, they're an ecosystem and the 2 of them depend, you know, the 2 groups depend on one another for atmosphere. 286 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:17.640 And so it goes and locks itself in the cage and lets them walk out the door. 287 00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:19.380 I mean, it just seems extraordinary. 288 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:20.579 It doesn't make any sense at all. 289 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:31.859 I think what the doctor says, though, is that she can increase the oxygen content in the room, which would weaken the creature, but it's basically just if you go in here and give us a head start. 290 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:32.880 I won't do that to you. 291 00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:39.420 I know you the impression I got was, I know you're going to chase me anyway, but we're both intelligent creatures. 292 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:40.680 Give me a head start. 293 00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:41.339 Yeah. 294 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:48.359 And it's one of those things where it's intelligent when the plot needs it to be and it's their big shambling monsters otherwise. 295 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:49.920 Yeah. 296 00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.740 Yeah, I don't, I'm not quite sure that landed. 297 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:59.700 It was obviously meant to be the doctor, you know, has a clever thing, but it just, I don't think it quite worked. 298 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:00.480 Yeah. 299 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.420 How do we feel about the message? 300 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:09.900 You're clearly very, very angry about it, James, and you want to have a big rant about some spots, perhaps, for a while? 301 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:14.160 Yes, so why, why is Doctor Who so political now? 302 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:25.619 I love the, you know, wake up, you know, sort yourself out message. 303 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.539 Like, I love it when Doctor Who does that. 304 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:33.299 Um, One of my favourite Doctor Who stories of all time is Invasion of the Dinosaurs. 305 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.359 Um, I do, I like that. 306 00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:40.079 I think that whenever it does that, it's a good thing. 307 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.740 Sometimes it's a bit hand fisted. 308 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:48.240 But most of the time, it works well. 309 00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:56.339 I think this kind of fell a bit flat, but I liked the fact that it was there and I can even forgive them ripping off. 310 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.500 Mysterious planet. 311 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.380 Wow, rip off from the best, I think. 312 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:03.960 And the worst. 313 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.319 But no, I really, I really enjoyed that. 314 00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:15.000 I did think the editing that last shot, though, is a bit, that's a bit hand fisted. 315 00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:20.940 The, you know, be the best of humanity, otherwise, you'll be attacked by dregs. 316 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:26.640 That's right We'll have a monster screaming at you. that's it. 317 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.839 If we don't meet our Paris accord levels, we'll be all attacked by dregs. 318 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:33.960 What did you think about it, Tom? 319 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:50.940 I think it hits home, especially with everything that's happened here in this country over the last month with the horrible prize and destruction of habitat habitats and so many animals, native animals, and of course, loss of life. 320 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.400 I mean, it really does touch you. 321 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:59.519 But at the same time, I kind of thought, well, do I need to be hit in the face with it, like, like so bluntly. 322 00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:05.339 I mean, it's, I don't know, I like that it's there, but I think it could have been. 323 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:14.819 For me, perhaps not shoved in your face quite so bluntly, but I guess it's Jody's moment to talk to the audience like, you know, Merry Christmas to all of you at home. 324 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:20.579 And it's obviously like Rosa, that this sequence right at the end is written by Chris. 325 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:29.880 It seems to be what he likes to do to have his little bit of, you know, um, you know, telling us what we need to, what we need to take away from this. 326 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:40.859 So I'm okay with it, but I just thought, like, James, it just... hand fisted or I just kind of went, really, do I really need that? 327 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.180 I don't know. 328 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:42.960 I don't know. 329 00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:48.660 I have to watch it again when I have my drinking game, you know, with Sammy Benny. 330 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.099 You'll be unconscious by then. 331 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.880 I'll probably go, cheers, yes, Merry Christmas to you too. 332 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.460 What did what did you think, Brandon? 333 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:13.380 Um, look, I actually wanted her to get really angry in that speech, and I've watched it again since, and there's a bit more nuance there than I thought on the 1st time round, but pretty much when the companions asked her, how did it happen? 334 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.579 I wanted her to explode. 335 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.200 What do you mean, how did that happen? 336 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:17.759 Have you seen your planet? 337 00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:20.880 You know, I wanted her to have her stupid apes moment. 338 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:30.779 And particularly if we are going down the path, this series of the team becoming a bit fragmented and losing a bit of trust in the doctor. 339 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:36.660 Um, And it ties in, then with, oh, you're in a bit of a mardy mood. 340 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.539 Yeah, no, you know, earlier on. 341 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:45.000 Like when I said this to, um, my, uh, my friend answered, he said, yeah, and it ties in with that 1st scene. 342 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.019 I was like, yes, it does. 343 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:55.559 Well, but one thing I did actually really like that a lot of people seem not to is I liked cutting to that shot of the drag at the end because the speech. 344 00:24:55.619 --> 00:25:00.960 The next natural line of the speech is be the best of humanity or be the dregs. 345 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:06.839 And I was waiting for those words and they didn't come and I was left with the image instead. 346 00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:13.019 And as the credits kick in, I suddenly go, ah, that's where the name dregs comes from. 347 00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:14.640 They're the leg of humanity. 348 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:19.799 It took me until I was watching it the 2nd time to realise that, Fred, didn't say he did better than me. 349 00:25:19.859 --> 00:25:28.920 Well, you see, for me, the fact that they were called drags meant the moment that she mentioned the elite and that was a really good thing. 350 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:34.980 The fact that climate change doesn't happen because you don't unplug the microwave from the wall after you use it. 351 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:48.000 It happens because a very small number of rich people and corporations are just prepared to, you know, let the rest of us suffer rather than actually, you know, do anything about this problem or accept that it exists. 352 00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:52.680 So the moment that, and I'm really happy the episode framed it that way. 353 00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:59.339 The moment that she talked about elites, the dregs clearly had to be the people who were left behind. 354 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.880 I think, you know, I thought that was how it worked. 355 00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:04.740 Look, I thought I thought it was really good. 356 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:17.039 And I love the way that we just kind of put to one side the kind of established way that time travellers meant to work in Doctor Who, which I think has become a problem for the show. 357 00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:19.319 But I won't go on about that here. 358 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:25.859 I'm really pleased that we just put that to one side and said, this isn't the planet Zog that suffered an environmental catastrophe. 359 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.220 This isn't Fenrick has gone back in time and poisoned the oceans. 360 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:37.259 What we're seeing here is the result of what you are doing now, the the entire, you know, the climate catastrophe that we're currently suffering. 361 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:46.140 And, you know, like I thought it was, you know, it came out just a day before the Prime Minister of Australia said, we're not going to reduce emissions. 362 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:51.480 We're just going to do resilience and adaptation in order to cope with this crisis. 363 00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:55.079 And so I thought it was a really super timely message. 364 00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:59.819 So that's my speech to camera at the end of the episode. 365 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:04.680 We should have cut to Wilma going, Benny, where's my? 366 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.539 She's still out there. 367 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.940 Like, Katie, she survived. 368 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.740 No, she is that Drake. 369 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:24.359 There is a Twitter account called DW Poop, who do funny, short Doctor Who videos, and Todd, they've re-edited the ending where it's Wilma screaming Benny instead of the drink. 370 00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.339 That's fantastic. 371 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:28.680 So check out at DW Poop. 372 00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:31.859 I also saw them do I'm bringing Benny back. 373 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.619 Oh yes. that was pretty good. 374 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:54.480 All right, I think we're going to wind up there because we've gone well over time, but I think this was an episode that certainly, you know, even a couple of days after it 1st aired, there's certainly a lot to talk about, is there anything that anyone would like to say, any closing statements? 375 00:27:54.539 --> 00:28:00.059 I think for me, this is going to be like a warriors of the deep or the or water doomsday. 376 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:10.980 I know that it's utterly rubbish in so many aspects, but I think I can probably sit down and just enjoy it and and revel in the great aspects and and just laugh at when it's really awful. 377 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:12.660 Brilliant. 378 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.559 Anyone else? 379 00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:18.000 Um, I do, I do have one thing, and it occurred to me last night when I was doing the washing up. 380 00:28:18.059 --> 00:28:25.440 Um, I think the... the families, right? 381 00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:31.559 The families are the people who are ignoring climate change. 382 00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:38.759 They're ignoring the disaster around them and it's like, I think it doesn't quite translate to screen because of the performances. 383 00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:42.660 I think it was trying to be satirical, but not quite getting there. 384 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:53.759 So it makes the episode kind of a postmodern masterpiece in that it's an episode with a point and a message that the cast appear not to understand. 385 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:55.500 Brilliant. 386 00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:56.400 All right. 387 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:01.380 And so we're all sitting around here arguing about the episode while the house is burning down. 388 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.099 All right. 389 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:06.660 Okay, so let's wind up. 390 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:14.940 Until next time, remember that there's no better way to reduce your carbon footprint than pushing a billionaire into the sea. 391 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.039 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 392 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:18.539 Good night. 393 00:29:18.660 --> 00:29:20.160 See you soon, Benny. 394 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:21.720 Good night, Benny.