WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-10 at 18:59:08 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.899 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Jody Into Terror, the 2 00:00:03.899 --> 00:00:07.799 only Doctor Who flash cast that finds itself mysteriously unable 3 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:09.419 to remember the last few hours. 4 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:11.580 It's probably just the gin. 5 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:12.660 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:13.560 I'm James. 7 00:00:13.619 --> 00:00:14.519 I'm Brendan. 8 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:20.039 And I'm not at all a Stranger Things under garden of, I don't know 9 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:25.140 what looks like a big ad for follicular challenged conditioner. 10 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.260 That whole thing just looked like a massive scalp. 11 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:32.399 We did actually talk about that last week. 12 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:35.039 And disappointingly it wasn't. 13 00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:37.500 Do not use head and shoulders on your liver. 14 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:44.340 So, um, we are sort of just a couple of days after watching Spy 15 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:46.020 Fall part two. 16 00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:49.140 And therefore a bit drunk. and therefore a bit drunk, obviously. 17 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.380 And we're all in the same room together, which is kind of nice. 18 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:56.700 It only happened a couple of times last season, if more than once 19 00:00:56.700 --> 00:00:57.240 I don't know. 20 00:00:57.299 --> 00:01:00.359 So let's just talk about what we thought. 21 00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:03.119 I went last last time, so I'm going to go 1st this time. 22 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:05.700 I thought it was pretty good. 23 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:11.159 I certainly thought it was a step up from series 11, but I do have 24 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:17.340 to confess that I haven't the faintest idea what the master, Mr 25 00:01:17.340 --> 00:01:23.040 Barton, or the Vord were after, like what their plan was. 26 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:25.379 But I'm prepared to just roll with that. 27 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:30.780 And certainly, I enjoyed Sasha DeWan's performance enormously. 28 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:37.019 Aren't they all Imelda Staunton covered in my last silver wrap? 29 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.500 Because she's got the same hat that she wears in Vera. 30 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.400 I know they're all going to end up being backstreet abortionists 31 00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:48.959 dot com. worst boy band ever. 32 00:01:49.019 --> 00:01:51.180 Is that other podcast? 33 00:01:51.180 --> 00:01:52.079 I think it might be. 34 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:53.760 James, have you started the timer, by the way? 35 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:54.420 Okay, good. 36 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:55.079 All right. 37 00:01:55.140 --> 00:01:59.519 So James, that's all I'm going to say, James. to completely to 38 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.019 rally what I was about to say. 39 00:02:01.859 --> 00:02:03.959 Look, I really enjoyed it. 40 00:02:04.019 --> 00:02:06.239 I actually, you know what it reminded me of. 41 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:13.860 The way that Moffatt used to do his two-parters, where the whole 42 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:19.680 thing would flip on a knife edge and you'd get a completely 43 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:23.039 different plot, even though it was a 2nd part of a two-parter. 44 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:25.379 And I actually really enjoyed that. 45 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:29.520 I think I found myself enjoying last week's plot more than this 46 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:30.060 week's. 47 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:31.020 Oh, no, no, I did. 48 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.759 I found myself enjoying last of the time lords, but wasn't that 49 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:36.599 what it was? 50 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:43.500 But no, I liked the fact that they took the plot and flipped it 51 00:02:43.500 --> 00:02:46.500 because it kept things interesting and different and fresh. 52 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:48.120 I preferred... 53 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:49.680 A gentle listener who's as drunk as I am. 54 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:51.120 How did they flip the plot? 55 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:57.300 I think rather than doing that sort of spy, pastige, like Bond 56 00:02:57.300 --> 00:02:58.379 kind of went away. 57 00:02:58.379 --> 00:03:03.120 And it became this sort of weird, like we split the plot between, I 58 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:05.580 guess, I guess that... 59 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:06.300 Well, no, no. 60 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.520 Well, yes, yeah, it was kind of last of the time. 61 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:10.919 It was also sort of a bond, actually... 62 00:03:10.979 --> 00:03:11.879 Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. 63 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:12.840 Yeah, it was that as well. 64 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:17.159 Because the fam are all wearing tuxedos and sort of being chased 65 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.580 and hiding and not eating chips and doing a sort of slightly less 66 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:23.819 interesting tread of that scene. for the dearth of chips. 67 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.039 Immediately over the chips. 68 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:30.840 I did like how Yaz looked like she'd dressed up to perform on 69 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:31.979 Strictly Come Dancing. 70 00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:35.699 Yes, look, I had a moment where I noticed jazz on screen as well 71 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:37.080 was lovely, wasn't it? 72 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:39.719 Why is my favourite person still not freaking on screen? 73 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.419 I thought she got a bit to do this week. 74 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.620 Maybe I'm just plaintive. 75 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:44.939 She got more to do in F1. 76 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.120 But she wasn't totally pushed into the background this week, even 77 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:49.139 though she doesn't get a gadget. 78 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:50.460 No. 79 00:03:50.460 --> 00:03:52.500 That was disappointing, especially. 80 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:55.500 The thing is, especially if the other 2 were a bit rubbish with 81 00:03:55.500 --> 00:03:57.900 their gadgets, which, you know, even though they managed to steal 82 00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:00.780 a car, Graham was a bit rubbish with the laser shoe, which is 83 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:01.020 fine. 84 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:02.879 I love the laser shoe. 85 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:04.020 A little nod to Don Adams. 86 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:08.099 I think it was a very boy thing, you know, like they were both 87 00:04:08.099 --> 00:04:10.680 sort of silly boys. 88 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:12.000 Sorry to overtalk. 89 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:12.900 It was Marine Boy. 90 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.879 Do you remember the jets in his shoe for the, I know, that's 91 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:16.860 really only for Colin Neal, who's the only other person who's 92 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:17.220 always me? 93 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:18.600 Hello, Colin. 94 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:19.800 Hello, Colin. 95 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:20.579 No, you really are. 96 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:27.899 But yeah, it wouldn't have been great, Brendan, if they had given 97 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.740 her something and she just intuitively known exactly how to use it 98 00:04:31.740 --> 00:04:34.259 straight away because she's more intelligent than the other two. 99 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:36.899 I like capable. on the phone call. 100 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:38.639 Yes, that's true. 101 00:04:38.699 --> 00:04:41.519 And actually, come to think of it, that's kind of her gadget that 102 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.579 she knows they're going to be listening in and she knows that 103 00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:48.300 because Ryan and Graham are almost the only family each other 104 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:48.779 has. 105 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.319 They, you know, they're not going to call like Aaron, for instance 106 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.259 despite the fact there's some been some repairing in the 107 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:55.800 relationship. 108 00:04:55.860 --> 00:04:59.100 No, far more believable for her to call, but for that to be part 109 00:04:59.100 --> 00:04:59.699 of the trick. 110 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:03.180 If you don't mind me jumping, jumping in. 111 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:03.899 Not at all. 112 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:08.040 And the thing is, I like that they don't then realise, of course 113 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:10.500 Barton's going to use this to hunt us down because they're not 114 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:10.980 spies. 115 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:15.600 I don't see that this story, these episodes had to have the same 116 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.079 title. 117 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:19.980 I think I would have liked to call this on the doctor's Secret 118 00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:20.399 Service. 119 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.019 I wanted to call it... 120 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.360 I wanted to call it doctor Pussy, but that would have been wrong. 121 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:28.199 Oh, dear. 122 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:29.579 Bad. 123 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:31.500 Octo Doctois? 124 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:33.420 Stop it at once, shame. 125 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:36.000 But yeah, I love It's not rude. 126 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:37.680 I'm not the one who's pussy. 127 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:39.779 I'd just like to throw out there though. 128 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:41.040 I think the plot. 129 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:42.779 I think the plot. 130 00:05:42.899 --> 00:05:43.560 Of course, I'm here. 131 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:48.300 I think the plot of these 2 hours holds together better than the 132 00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:50.100 plot of the last 3 James Bond films. 133 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.560 Ooh, not a high. 134 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:54.180 Actually, not all controversial. 135 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:57.360 But the thing is, as much as, you know, we ditch the spy trapping 136 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:58.560 trappings for the 1st half. 137 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.139 We get them back in the 2nd half. 138 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:01.680 Yes. 139 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:07.500 And I love, I love the doctor picking up Ada and Eniat Khan. 140 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.240 No, nor any car. 141 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:10.379 Sorry, nor Iniak Khan. 142 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:11.040 I beg your pardon. 143 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:16.680 Um, And yeah, I just, I loved the chemistry between those three. 144 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:18.240 Some people on Twitter have suggested. 145 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:21.480 Actually, there's kind of more chemistry between these 3 than the 146 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:22.860 regular 4 and it's like... 147 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:25.740 Did you see that thing that someone did on Twitter when they read 148 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:25.980 it? 149 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:27.360 she was like, are we being replaced? 150 00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:30.360 And just cut out the middle. 151 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:32.819 But this was so much fun. 152 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.060 Like, I know I enjoyed last year, but last year was very sedate 153 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:39.959 and I think it was very sedate, whereas this is completely action 154 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.779 packed, but it's not like they've changed everyone's 155 00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:43.680 characterisations. 156 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:46.500 You know, it's not like watching an early episode of Star Trek 157 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.680 Next Gen and then watching one from the last series and it's a 158 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:50.939 completely different show. 159 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.680 It's still recognisably the same show. 160 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:54.779 You can see where we've got to this point. 161 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:58.740 But it's just last year was satisfying. 162 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.720 This is so much more satisfying for me. 163 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:02.879 And we're only 2 Eps in. 164 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.279 So I noticed the thing I noticed particularly in that scene where 165 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:12.060 they're stealing the car, that one of the things that Chibnell 166 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:16.800 does is unnecessary, unnecessarily narrate the action. 167 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.019 Thank you as if he's Shakespeare. 168 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:24.660 And so, well, actually, as actually, as if he's one of those goz 169 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:27.600 whatever, yellow bounded school footnotes. 170 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:30.720 But, but, and he started to laugh. 171 00:07:30.779 --> 00:07:31.560 Because it's a bit obvious. 172 00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:35.759 So last week, there were 2 occasions where someone narrated the 173 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:39.779 action and the other person said, yes, character, I can see that. 174 00:07:39.779 --> 00:07:44.279 Today, I mean, in this episode, it was Graham. 175 00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:45.779 It was it was Ryan. 176 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.240 Don't tell him the plan, right? 177 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.660 And Ryan's only telling them the plan so that we know what the 178 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:52.439 plan is. 179 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:54.720 It did for... 180 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:59.040 Yes, it did feel as if the the gloves were off, but the the rubber 181 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:00.779 gloves were properly slicked for the operation. 182 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:04.680 It's less William Shakespeare and more... 183 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:06.660 Billy Wackle dagger. 184 00:08:06.899 --> 00:08:08.879 Okay, stop that at once. 185 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:10.500 I don't know who that is. 186 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.639 What we haven't talked about yet is the other plot. talked a 187 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:18.720 little bit about some Graham Yaz and Ryan being off on their own 188 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:19.800 sort of side plot. 189 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:21.360 As they ought to be. 190 00:08:21.420 --> 00:08:24.779 Actually, I quite like this pairing and then giving the doctor a 191 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:27.000 sort of temporary sort of fam. 192 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:30.000 How do we think that that strand of the plot went particularly 193 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.220 since that's Australian with Sasha Dewan in it? 194 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:39.600 I quite liked it, but, again, there's that whole narrating the 195 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.720 plot thing where the doctor has to explain to her what he is. 196 00:08:42.779 --> 00:08:47.399 Instead of that happening naturally through dialogue. 197 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:48.000 It's. 198 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:53.820 Oh, you're, you know, a Lovelace. bloody, bloody, bloody blood. 199 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:54.899 Inputum, inputum. 200 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:55.679 And then she does it again. 201 00:08:55.740 --> 00:08:57.779 Well, couldn't we have just found that out? 202 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.379 And I would have thought that with previous showrunners, that 203 00:09:01.379 --> 00:09:04.019 would have been done, but it's... 204 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:09.179 I mean, I actually really like the fact that he's taken these 2 205 00:09:09.179 --> 00:09:10.559 sort of unsung. 206 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:13.919 I mean, I knew about Ada Lovelace, you know, she has a programming 207 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:15.059 language named after her. 208 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:16.559 She's like a big deal. 209 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:19.259 I didn't know about Noor Khan at all. 210 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:22.259 They're minor diz for the plot. 211 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.659 I just felt that she was a bolton. 212 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:29.879 And when we finally do get Babbage and Ada Lovelace in a Doctor 213 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:31.500 Who episode, which I've been longing for. 214 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:37.320 I mean, as you know, the NAs did similar with the 8th doctor. 215 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:39.299 Yeah, Babb just been in it, hasn't he? 216 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.980 Yeah, yeah. and Lovelace as well. 217 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.019 And of course, Alan Turing and the cheering test. 218 00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:44.940 Well, there was a picture of Turing, wasn't there? 219 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:45.600 Yes, there was. 220 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.940 And a picture of Steve Wozniak, apparently. 221 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.799 I do love that they're... 222 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:50.820 Kathy Griffinson. 223 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:56.820 I do love that they've chosen unsung important women. 224 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:00.059 Yeah, and a Muslim woman, like a Muslim woman who was a hero of 225 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:00.960 the Second World War. 226 00:10:01.019 --> 00:10:06.419 It was a little bit upsetting to learn afterwards that that a few 227 00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:11.039 months later, Khan ended up in Dakau and then dead. 228 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:16.559 Well, I remember when her when her casting was leaked. 229 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:19.080 I think I think it was on the actress's resume. 230 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:21.360 And that's how a lot of people find out about casting news because 231 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.019 of course actors have to list jobs on their resume in order to get 232 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:25.740 more jobs. 233 00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:29.879 Um, but I remember there was all this handwringing and 234 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:32.580 consternation of, oh, this is going to be the, this is going to be 235 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:34.860 the historical celebrity episode and they're going to have the 236 00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:37.559 execution and it's going to be Yaz, you can't rescue your great 237 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.080 auntie because she's also a kind. 238 00:10:40.139 --> 00:10:42.240 But I remember someone on gallipery base pointing out, you do 239 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.700 realise that Khan is actually quite a common name. 240 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.879 You know, it's like the equivalent of Smith or Jones. 241 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:51.120 Yeah, just put on a pair of comedy rubber breasts and launch 242 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:52.919 yourself into a Star Trek. 243 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:54.299 Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's it. 244 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.740 Or just be Bernadette Cumberbatch and you can do calm as well. 245 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:00.779 Really hoping you were going to say Bernadette Peters, because 246 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:02.039 it's almost the same performance. 247 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:11.159 I want to talk, please, if we can about the casting of the major 248 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.039 villain, the major anti-doctor, because we haven't talked about 249 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:14.340 that yet. 250 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.379 So we talked a little bit about it last week. 251 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:17.639 But you weren't here, of course. 252 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.700 No, what I was doing. waxing, probably. 253 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.080 But now I'm waning. 254 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.879 I really wasn't happy and it felt, it just didn't feel like a good 255 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:27.240 fit. 256 00:11:27.299 --> 00:11:29.580 There's nothing wrong with the actor, but these things are 257 00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:32.519 ensemble pieces, and this is a very tight ensemble piece. 258 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:35.399 And I just wasn't feeling it. 259 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:38.519 You're too nice a person to be playing this person. 260 00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:42.299 Whereas Michelle, as an actor, whereas Michelle Gomez convinces me 261 00:11:42.299 --> 00:11:45.179 of her worth in everything she ever does because she only ever 262 00:11:45.179 --> 00:11:46.259 plays Michelle Gomez. 263 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.639 It's like the nicest person ever. 264 00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:50.700 But her shadow is very much... 265 00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:52.200 But her comedy persona is dark. 266 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:53.940 Well, I've just seen Sabrina. 267 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:54.480 Nah. 268 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:56.580 But anyway, no, it's the Gomez show. 269 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.120 But those last moments when we talk about the burning of gala 270 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:00.539 free. 271 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:05.039 I thought, no, you are an actor with gravitas and you are holding 272 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:05.820 this point. 273 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.379 I'm really disappointed. 274 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.879 He wasn't played by a womb man because I really would have liked. 275 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:16.379 I just would have liked a mirror, and we've talked about this 276 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:21.179 before, as Nathan famously says on this spot, and other podcasts 277 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:25.440 that the master is always the doctor in apotheo in the darker 278 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.600 apotheosis, but has to be a little bit a little bit more watchable 279 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.480 a little bit more attractive, a little bit more meretricious, if 280 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:33.840 you like. 281 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:36.659 And I'm not getting that with this... 282 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.279 That's not how I feel about him. 283 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:40.440 I actually really like him. 284 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:42.059 But you're dirty man. 285 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:45.059 Well, I Well, I do think he's super attractive. 286 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.399 Don't ask Peter. 287 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:54.539 But I think he and Jody were incredibly strong in those scenes 288 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:58.379 together and I think that that's the best acting that Jody's done 289 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:00.840 because she hasn't had to be angry. 290 00:13:00.899 --> 00:13:02.879 She hasn't actually hadn't... 291 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:03.539 No. 292 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.399 And the expression is my family again. 293 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.100 Is that what she calls it? 294 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:14.940 Her expression of contempt and her refusal to let the master win 295 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:17.220 even when she knelt before him and called him master. 296 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:18.899 I thought it was fantastic. 297 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.419 And then the scene on top of the Eiffel Tower was amazingly good. 298 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.000 And so I like the 2 of them together. 299 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:32.100 Ada, can I just say, I completely disapprove of Ada, you know 300 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:35.820 shooting the master with a machine. 301 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:36.600 Oh, she got him. 302 00:13:36.659 --> 00:13:38.700 She got him. you know, well, yeah, exactly. 303 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.259 And then threw a grenade at him. 304 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.600 But I quite liked with that whole Neil thing. 305 00:13:42.659 --> 00:13:47.580 The doctor sounds less angry and enraged than she does bored. 306 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:49.559 It's like, are we doing this again? 307 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:51.120 No, yeah, she won't give him a win. 308 00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:52.740 She just won't give him a win. 309 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:54.120 I like that. like that a lot. 310 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:56.879 You know what, though? 311 00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.940 Something Richard said that hadn't occurred to me before is 312 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:05.039 something the master always tries to be, and you've mentioned this 313 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.440 before, Nathan, is more fun than the doctor. 314 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:14.340 And Sasha's master is not, he's fun in a couple of places, but he 315 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:18.059 was giving me real Heath Ledger as the Joker kind of energy in 316 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:22.559 that every joke is actually just, I want to skin you alive right 317 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.500 now, Lenny Henry, but I, oh, I need you. 318 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:26.879 You know how it is. 319 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:30.480 Which makes him really scary. appealing to what? 320 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:36.419 I mean, scary and in a believable way that, you know, when even 321 00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:40.139 when John Sim was playing the insane master, that's 15 minutes 322 00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:40.379 everybody. 323 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:40.860 Okay. 324 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:46.320 Even when we had that master who was supposed to be completely 325 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.279 unhinged. 326 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.919 I believe this master, would, you know, would kill anybody and he 327 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:53.100 does. 328 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.019 He just zaps people left, right, and centre. 329 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.139 That one where the woman's sort of relieved that she's, you know 330 00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:00.600 she said, no, I didn't move and then he kills her anyway. 331 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:04.559 Look, we are going to get back to discussing the master again in 332 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:09.600 2025 when we do this episode, this on flight through entirety. 333 00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:13.919 But I do want to just very quickly end by doing a little quick 334 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:19.620 chat around about poor old Lenny Henry this episode. 335 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:20.700 Yes. 336 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.120 Or as we call it, the dearth of Dawn Fringe. 337 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:27.179 Fantastic. 338 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.759 Yeah, he just didn't win it for me. 339 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:33.720 I think he did very well last week. was great last week. 340 00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:38.159 I think that line, did I mention it last week where Jody says, I'm 341 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.399 very difficult to get rid of and he just smiles and goes, are 342 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:41.700 you? 343 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.580 Yeah, and I think he wins that confrontation. 344 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:49.080 Also, the darkness of he just kills his mother. 345 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:50.519 Yeah, but what? 346 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:50.759 Okay. 347 00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:52.379 Like, what for? 348 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:56.940 Because then the fam turn up and it's like they're being set up 349 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.039 for her to be like the empty child or whatever. 350 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:02.940 I think I think something not necessarily was filmed and cut, but 351 00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:06.120 I think something was cut in scripts there to show us what these 352 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:07.799 human hard drives would look like. 353 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:13.679 He was going to, he was using her to store his bootleg MP3 354 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:14.279 collection. 355 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:17.220 Like in that scene, the dialogue was cut. 356 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:17.940 Oh, nebulous. 357 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.919 No, no, it was like expectations. 358 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:23.460 It was fish, live show. an ugly expectations. 359 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.799 When are we doing the bleak expectations of doing it now? 360 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:29.820 I keep saying we can only do a podcast with big Harry can be funny 361 00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:31.139 at that, frankly. 362 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.740 Just didn't invite some Tom Allen onto the podcast. 363 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:35.820 I don't see a problem with that. 364 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:37.679 Tom Allen in bleak expectations. 365 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:38.460 I'm right here. 366 00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:43.320 Because he does a really bitchy thing on radio 4, which is not for 367 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:44.460 this, but go on. 368 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:44.820 Keep going. 369 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:45.960 He's he's pip. 370 00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:46.860 He's pip bim. 371 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:47.460 I have no idea. 372 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:48.659 Yeah, marvellous. 373 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.460 Tom Allen is not actually very nice. 374 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:51.360 Have you heard that one? 375 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:54.779 I've seen, no, haven't, but I've seen I've seen bleak expectations 376 00:16:54.779 --> 00:16:58.139 recorded live and slightly flirted with Tom Allen in the foyer. 377 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.200 Also, you were looking in the 2nd row, and so you were like 378 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:01.860 bashing around. 379 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.259 I just... while we're bashing eyelids. 380 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.859 I'm trying to remember Yaz's family, but I just had this thing 381 00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:12.119 that I wanted one of Yaz's family members to have been also been 382 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:13.019 playing the master. 383 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.180 And it's not the same. 384 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:16.019 Sonya was the master. 385 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.059 I just want the facelift thing. 386 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.819 I just wanted that to be written. 387 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.980 I didn't, they don't have to be the same character and it probably 388 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:27.660 wouldn't have worked, but I just don't feel, um, Jody is being, or 389 00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:28.859 the doctor is being equalled. 390 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.880 But I did like the awful business of her kneeling, I was going to 391 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.099 refer to, and having to call a man master. 392 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.119 That was interesting. 393 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:37.019 Yeah, yeah. 394 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:39.539 And I think the script is conscious of that. 395 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.519 And that is an expression of his evil, that he, that he would do 396 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:45.960 that he would demand this of a woman. 397 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:48.180 You know, that, that's, I think. 398 00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:50.339 He even calls her love in that really dismissive way. 399 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.000 Yeah, yeah. 400 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:51.960 Can't hear you, love. 401 00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:52.380 Yeah. 402 00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:57.240 So, I guess the final thing to talk about is how do we feel about 403 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.920 Gallifre, have we entered a new era of the show where each 404 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:07.140 alternate showrunner will destroy Gallifre and then resurrect 405 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:07.859 Gallifre? 406 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.400 In a couple of years time, will Pete McTie bring Galiframe? 407 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:18.359 We've entered the Nathan era, where Gallifrey is tidally dead. and 408 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.380 cannot be referred to other than its ashen waste and form. 409 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:24.240 I'm actually quite glad to see it go. 410 00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:25.259 Yeah, I hate it. 411 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:27.660 Well, they didn't do anything with it when they brought it back. 412 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:29.039 This is the thing, right? 413 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:31.799 And I was saying this to a friend of mine. 414 00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:34.380 It's just like, he was really annoyed. 415 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.140 Oh, you know, he's blown it up again and what for? 416 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.980 I'm like, because Gallifrey has not been interesting since the 417 00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:42.000 deadly assassin. 418 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:46.319 And every showrunner diminishes Gallifrey Burger? 419 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:47.579 How very dare you? 420 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.500 I really liked those beige surfers. 421 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.599 Invasion of time. 422 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.539 Look, I'm not saying I don't enjoy invasion. 423 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.819 John Tyrant tripping over pool furniture. 424 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.819 I'm not saying I don't enjoy invasion of time and the trial of a 425 00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:04.079 time lord and the 5 doctors and the 3 doctors cough. 426 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.119 Arc of Infinity got made. 427 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:09.180 But I'm just saying... 428 00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:11.160 Gallifrey is more interesting when it's been fridged. 429 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:12.059 Yeah. 430 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:19.259 I, I mean, I think probably Moffat, when, like at the end, when he 431 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:22.920 brings it back, it looks like we're refocusing the show to be the 432 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:24.539 quest for Gallifrey. 433 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.720 There was even a board game called... 434 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:30.539 But it looked like rather than the doctor being a sort of, you 435 00:19:30.539 --> 00:19:33.599 know, lonely wanderer, he had a goal that at some point he'd find 436 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:34.079 his home. 437 00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:36.299 And then we never followed that up, really. 438 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.299 It gets a sort of brief mention the following episode and then 439 00:19:39.299 --> 00:19:41.279 then, oh, it turns out it was here all along. 440 00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:43.200 And so it doesn't actually matter. 441 00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:48.420 What I worry about is giving Chris Chibnall the keys to rewriting 442 00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:50.880 history of the timelords, to be honest. 443 00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:55.200 Because I think Moffatt got accused a lot of wanting to kind of 444 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.279 rewrite the doctor's background, but he always did it in a way 445 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.339 that basically left the show intact and it didn't actually 446 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:02.759 matter. 447 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:09.240 I wonder whether this revelation is going to be everything that we 448 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.440 might hope it would be. 449 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:16.019 I would like to think is the cart more master plan, coming to 450 00:20:16.019 --> 00:20:16.980 fruition favourite. 451 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:20.339 Yaz is going to become a time lord? 452 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:21.900 No, looms are real. 453 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.920 That's the line. 454 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:24.420 And the doctor's the other. 455 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.759 There have always been looms. 456 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:27.720 All right. 457 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:29.759 This is getting far, far too silly for words. 458 00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:37.019 Unless anyone has an absolute, you know, urgent, what do we call 459 00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:37.259 it? 460 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.059 sort of closing statement. 461 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.940 We might wind up. 462 00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.180 So we will be back next week. 463 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.960 Obviously, you can hear us at flight through entirety and we have 464 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.559 all of our sort of coverage of series 3 in the can. 465 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:58.680 And we will be back, obviously, this time next week for, I'm not 466 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:02.400 going to say the title of the episode, but I'm going to spoil 467 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.680 things by saying it's written by Ed Heim. 468 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:06.839 So I'm quite excited by that. 469 00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:08.579 It's a remake of the leisure height. 470 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:09.299 It is. 471 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.859 At least from the trailer. 472 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.319 I'll try to make it properly this time. 473 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:19.799 So until next time, let's have a moment of silence for all the 474 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.880 plastic sofas that perished in the master's destruction of gala 475 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:24.299 frame. 476 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.440 So hoping for Andrew to take one last stand. we're done. 477 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.720 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 478 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:34.619 Go look up a walk to work with Whittaker on YouTube. 479 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:35.759 Oh yes, absolutely. 480 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.039 We don't need to hear that, Richard.