WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 12:48:25

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Hello, Delister, and welcome back to Jody and To Terra, the only Doctor Who flash cast that once lived in the Australian outback for 123 years before it all burnt to a crisp.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James I'm Brendan.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Todd.

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So we are fresh off watching, what's it called?

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SpyFall part one, which is obviously the opening episode of series 12 and obviously the 2020 New Year's special.

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So let's just start by going round the horn and seeing what people thought of it.

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Todd.

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Oh, oh.

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Oh, oh, Omega.

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That would have been a revelation.

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Oh, look, I'm so...

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I thought it would have been more of a revelation, would have been oh, oh, Ogri.

15
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Look, I have to say, I'm so excited. about Sasha as the master.

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That's my highlight for the episode and I loved having the 2 big name guest stars to sort of, um, sort of take your attention away from him, I guess.

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And I was really intrigued by the aliens because I kept thinking, are they the Vardens or the plasmatons, and then, and then when they got in the plane, I'm thinking it's going to be the faceless ones, and, uh, and I thought the regular cast, you know, all had things, good things to do, and, I was, I was, it held my attention, like, like, and, and I liked it, and the 2nd time I watched it, I liked it even more.

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So, um, and, and the master got to say that the, the interior of the TARDIS was ridiculous and I think it is ridiculous.

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And so it's sort of an antidote thing and I thought that was, you can poke fun at yourself fantastic.

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So, yeah, that's my hot take on it.

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It's like the moment where they started to say that Peter Capoldi looked like a magician.

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Do you know what I mean?

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All right.

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Peter, what do you think?

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Well, it's very apt that we're Skyping into you from the Australian outback today.

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So we haven't seen any masters round.

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So that's possibly good or possibly a bad thing in the case of Sasha Dowan.

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I would love to see him around.

29
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Um, I was very heartened by this episode because I wasn't the greatest fan of Chris Chibmall's writing last season.

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I thought that the other writers in the team did a better job.

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But this had a lot to recommend it.

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Um, I still felt there were a couple of problems.

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I still think that Chris has got a tin ear for dialogue and particularly for banter.

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But there was a lot to like as well.

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It was quite tightly structured.

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Um, the regulars were, Given quite a lot to do.

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And it had some peace to it, which was a problem last year.

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It really belted along, I thought, and reached that climax where it just kind of, you know, I was looking around at the people I was watching it with, and everyone was wrapped by that point.

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And there's a way to a Doctor Who fan's heart and that was it.

40
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Yeah, brilliant.

41
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Brilliant.

42
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What about you, Brendan?

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Um, well, Coming off the back of what Peter said, a Litman test for me is always how much Rod enjoys it.

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Of course, and at the as the closing credits went up, he said, that's the best episode we've had since Capaldi took over.

45
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Wow.

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I heard someone on Twitter say best ones since RTD left.

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Yeah, yeah, I saw that as well.

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And on New Year's Day, I put up my series 11 retrospective video on my YouTube channel and I don't think I'm exaggerating to say, I think that, um, I'm probably the, the member of the podcast team who enjoyed last season the most, possibly.

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Maybe, maybe equal with James, but um, certainly, you know, I enjoyed it very greatly, but even with that video I put up, I kind of raised, there were 3 things I wanted to see improved, and one of those was more for Yaz to do, which this episode delivered in spades and shows just how good an actress Mandip Gill is, um, there was also the fact that I didn't like getting references to adventures that sounded more interesting than what we were seeing on screen.

50
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Now, what about the bike off though?

51
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Well, the thing is, though, right?

52
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That Bikoff reference?

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It's one line which is immediately relevant to the upcoming scene.

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We have to know why they can ride a motorcycle.

55
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Otherwise it's Sarah Jane with a rifle all over again.

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And yeah, my other complaint was publicity and the public and the and the team not revealing very much.

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The publicity for this episode was excellent.

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There was 2 trailers and 2 preview scenes and the preview scenes didn't give much away.

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They just sort of whetted the appetite.

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But also, this episode proves Chris Chibnall's, perhaps, um, clamp down on news and publicity.

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Well, it might kind of pay off if we get reveals like the spy master.

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Oh, Brandon, can I can I say something to that as well, Brandon?

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Because I was completely spoiler free with that and it had the intended effect.

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I didn't see it coming until the moment it happened and it was great.

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Yeah, I was not completely spoiler free and it was my own fault because I looked on Twitter and I saw someone mention the master and I thought, oh, is it possible?

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But I was thinking it was going to be Lenny Henry.

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Everything was leading up to it being Letty Henry, and then it's Sasha Duan.

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So that had that effect on me.

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I'm very grateful to say.

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But like Todd, I was I was thinking Vardens and Chameleons are these things.

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I now have a new theory, which I may come back to later if we have time, but that's all I'm going to say for now.

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What about you, James?

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Look, I'm not going to disagree with you, Anna. really enjoyed it.

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And like you say, Brennan, I, you know, I think I liked the series, um, in 2018, as much as as you, if not more, but I could see its flaws.

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I mean, I knew it was deeply flawed, especially that that final episode was just awful.

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But I was, I was just, I was watching it in the car on the way from Melbourne to Canada.

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I felt a little sick at the end of it. mainly because of the motion sickness.

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I hope that that car didn't crash and then go backwards, long nose away.

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And look, I had had had the master spoiled for me about 2.5 , 3 months ago, like there were rumours going about that he'd been cast as the master.

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And I went, oh, well, you know, there's always rumours that someone's been cast in the past and completely forgot about it.

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I had forgotten about it as well.

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I think I'd heard them too.

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And it got, oh, you know, that would be lovely, but, oh, yeah.

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And I'd not seen that he'd actually been cast.

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And then when he popped up, I didn't remember until the moment he says his name.

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I just was like, oh my god.

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I squeaked.

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Sorry.

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Smoke inhalation.

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Yeah.

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No, I really loved this episode.

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I think it's worth mentioning just how expensive it looked too.

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I mean, last year we had all that cinematography, which made it look like prestige drama.

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And, you know, sometimes you would look at it and think this really looks as good as the show's ever looked, but often it would have a small kind of, you know, guest cast and, you know, there'd be a lot of walking around.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And this was like it was brightly coloured.

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It just moved.

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There were car 2 car chases, you know, like the casino scene was fun.

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The whole thing was just really super enjoyable.

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Snap.

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I love Jodie playing snap.

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All of that stuff was good.

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How did people feel about the regulars?

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Brendan's already said that he was happy to see Yaz get a decent turn.

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I think that it was good to see stuff with her family and see her be affected.

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I was laughing at the father trying to get Alexa to work because I got one for Christmas and was screening at the thing like he was, so I felt very connected with that.

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Do you think it's a Yorkshire accent joke?

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Is that it?

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Like, it can't understand people with Yorkshire accents.

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Yeah.

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So, and I thought Ryan had a lot of good comedy stuff to do and that is his strength and and Graham, I just enjoy Graham all the time and he was great.

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I loved Ryan turning to Graham and saying they're not toys, Graham.

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I know, right?

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I really liked Ryan's little bit in the casino where the 2 women walked past him when he just won.

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He was like, oh, hello, ladies.

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Absolute dogs, like that.

117
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Super embarrassing. that really sweet bit where, you know, Yaz throws the dice and she's like, did I win?

118
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And, um, oh, is like, no.

119
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No, you didn't.

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And they just have a little giggle about that.

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It's just a nice little character moment. starts hitting on her.

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Yeah, yeah, especially when you consider, oh, that's really sweet.

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And then, you know, 5 minutes later, it's like, oh, oh, no.

124
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Oh, oh, no, no, no.

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We like, we like him.

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I have a theory about Yaz, which I'll mention at the end of the episode.

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Oh, money.

128
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Yeah, no, I thought it was nice that everyone got a job to do.

129
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And I actually kind of like the pairing of Yaz and Ryan and Graham and the doctor because I think those 2 sort of work incredibly well.

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You know, as...

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It's a bit like the Dr. and Tegan and Nissa and Adrick, really, isn't it?

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Yeah, or yeah.

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Sorry.

134
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Do you know, it's that weird thing where in series 12, it's the doctor and Harry and then Sarah wanders off and has her own adventures.

135
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Season 12.

136
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Same thing.

137
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I think actually if you take that analogy further to the original Tartars team, Graham's got to be Susan.

138
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No, someone was saying that Ryan was Vicky because he's kind of the slightly vulnerable one who kind of gets into trouble.

139
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Yeah, that was me.

140
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Graham's Barbara.

141
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Yeah, Graham, of course.

142
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Yes.

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I think it was DK from the Doctor Who show, who kind of objected saying, yeah, but Ian did stuff.

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I'm like, yeah, but Yaz is always wanting to punch people in the face when they annoy you.

145
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And she knows how to use a gun.

146
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You know, that's the most, that's the most, I said, but you know, it's Ian specifically in the reign of terror.

147
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God, when he spends most of the episode locked up.

148
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Would a British policewoman know how to use a gun?

149
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Yeah, yeah.

150
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They'd have the training.

151
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They're just not allowed to use them.

152
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Yeah, it's all those Secondments.

153
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She keeps skipping out on training.

154
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All of that was actually really fun.

155
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I loved Ryan's detached retina and things.

156
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In fact, it's kind of, it's sort of interesting to see them play with that aspect of it and I wonder whether it'll pay off, whether there'll be something about, you know, them disappearing for long periods of time and what effect that'll have at home.

157
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I'm glad they reintroduced Yaz's family because I thought they were really terrific last year.

158
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Yeah, and can she scream?

159
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She was great at the end screaming out the doctor as the plane was going down.

160
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I thought it was tremendous.

161
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That whole sequence, that whole airplane sequence was just thrilling.

162
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So great.

163
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So Timothy Dalton, wasn't it?

164
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Like...

165
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I was expecting, you know, John Barry to be John Barry's estate to be ferociously ringing to do an a canola.

166
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Like, there was even as we saw the sort of, it might be a helicopter shot or something of the, or a big crane shot of the, of the estate.

167
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They're walking out of the vineyard into this.

168
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And it's the doctor's theme.

169
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It's Akinola's theme for the doctor, but done in the style of the James Bond theme.

170
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It was great.

171
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Yeah, really is.

172
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In fact, all of that stuff just worked tremendously.

173
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Wow.

174
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I thought.

175
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So let's talk about the master.

176
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Some of us were spoiled.

177
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I was in the same position as James.

178
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I think I thought I'd heard those rumours and I've been thinking of just Googling it to see whether I just dreamed it or not.

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But I'd completely forgotten, and when I saw the thing out the window, I thought, oh, my God, surely, surely, surely Chibnell's not bringing back the master.

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I wanted to be Omega.

181
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We didn't be Omega. creatures pushing through from another universe.

182
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I know, but he last appeared in the show in sort of 1983.

183
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So it's not him.

184
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Can I just say those creatures pushing through some other universe?

185
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Have a touch of the quarks about them.

186
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If you look at their heads.

187
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I'm thinking the Vord, and I'm not the only person to think that.

188
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The alien vaude.

189
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Yeah, they do.

190
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And episodes build up to the Vaud return.

191
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I think it's Vor...

192
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Actually, I think that's almost certainly a Vor tech.

193
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You know what I mean?

194
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Like, it's vort tech, and I'm sure I found that somewhere.

195
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It's like Arctic.

196
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Yeah.

197
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Yeah.

198
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Yeah, look, Yartec, look, vortex.

199
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Same thing.

200
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Look, I hope I hope it's that because look, am I allowed to say what VOR is on the internet?

201
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Because you'll destroy my outro joke if you do.

202
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Okay.

203
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I mean, what a great choice to play the master.

204
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Sasha is he's such a good actor.

205
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I don't know if people have followed his career, but he started off in the History Boys where he immediately made a big splash along with the rest of the cast.

206
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And then, of course, we own him from an adventure in space and time.

207
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But also, he was in um, the boy with the top knot, which was an extremely well-received drama about two, 3 years ago in Britain, and uh, I've loved him like all through that.

208
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I think he's fantastic.

209
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So when he turned up at the episode, I was doing a little dance of joy, and then he's the master.

210
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I thought this cannot get better.

211
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I was very young.

212
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I wasn't spoiled at all.

213
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And so, and so when he turned up and thought, oh, you're quite famous, and I'm thinking, that's an interesting role, and but I just kind of went, oh, you're going to be a red shirt. going to be killed off at some point, you know.

214
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So, so it took me completely by surprise.

215
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So I was very excited.

216
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Brendan, you expressed reservations, and I was watching you do this after I'd seen the episode, but before you had.

217
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Yeah, about the pairing of the doctor with a new evil post-Missy master.

218
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Yeah, mainly gods.

219
00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:59.159
I was talking to a friend of the podcast and colleague of mine, Anson, who may be listening.

220
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:04.799
Um, and pretty much he, he answered it in particular, is a huge Moffat fan.

221
00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:10.139
He's not just a doctor fan, but he loves the Moffat era, and he was the one who raised me.

222
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:18.059
Missy's arc was so perfect, that putting something, putting a new version of the master after that might kind of spoil that a bit.

223
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:25.980
That got me thinking, well, there is no reason we couldn't have a master between Ainley and Eric Roberts or Eric Roberts and Derek Jacoby.

224
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:31.139
So I'm still kind of hoping for that earlier placement, awful ambiguity, and we're not told.

225
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:36.720
But at the same time, if they came out next week and the doctor said, why are you doing this to me?

226
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.679
The master said, you left me dead on a ship full of cybermen?

227
00:15:40.740 --> 00:15:41.879
Yeah.

228
00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:43.379
Why do you think I'm doing this?

229
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:56.039
You know, I'm not going to write the series off or anything, but I think it could also be interesting with that, to have a master where the doctor can't refer to John Sim or Missy, because it's all yet to happen for him.

230
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:59.159
I wonder whether that's a bit too far.

231
00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:02.700
Yeah, a bit too complicated because they've always met in order, haven't they?

232
00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.580
Like, it's not like River song, they've just literally always met in order.

233
00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:07.919
I think...

234
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.519
Sorry, Todd.

235
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:14.820
Unless it comes down to all those multiple earths you see and his thing about, you know, everything you know is a lie.

236
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:16.500
I mean, it's all connected to that.

237
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.080
Is he an alternate universe version of the master?

238
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:23.580
Or is this an alternate universe version of Doctor Who that...

239
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:27.840
So they can Redcon, the fact that she's vagina.

240
00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:28.919
Yeah, it could be.

241
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:31.200
Or is he the master from the mind, Robert?

242
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:35.639
That is the master.

243
00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:38.940
Brilliant.

244
00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:40.919
So what are people expecting next week?

245
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.639
It looks like a change in venue.

246
00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:47.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

247
00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:48.720
What is that time?

248
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:49.620
she's in.

249
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:50.820
Paris.

250
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.700
The Paris 1943, is it?

251
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:56.519
It jumps back to the 40s during the Second World War.

252
00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:01.080
Oh, yeah. interesting.

253
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:04.859
I, yeah, I have a theory as to where the doctor has gone.

254
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.720
And because I was thinking, what do these things look like?

255
00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:11.579
What do these things look like when Yaz was there?

256
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:17.759
And then after the doctor was there and we find out that the master is doing tissue compression again, that little wonderful bit with the matchbox.

257
00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:19.140
That was hilarious.

258
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:30.599
Well, what, what if he, what if she's been shrunk down and she's on his clothes or when I said this to Nathan earlier in the master's hair because they look like strands of fibres.

259
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:35.940
And because Sasha has a very, very sort of lunch thick head of it.

260
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.579
So we're doing a homage to Planet of the Giants?

261
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:40.380
Yeah, are we?

262
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.779
I read someone.

263
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:44.700
But there's also that electrical current going through.

264
00:17:44.819 --> 00:17:45.299
Yeah.

265
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:46.559
Why not?

266
00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:50.819
Yeah, you know, the doctor has the Doctor Who, in an exciting adventure with some lice.

267
00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:55.440
The electrical current did seem to be the Vord, though, didn't it?

268
00:17:55.500 --> 00:18:03.960
I mean, because they all kind of attacked Yaz, like she got attacked by all of those electrical sparks and replaced the Vord in that cubicle.

269
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:06.480
It is the vaude. spoil it.

270
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:07.980
Yeah, but you find the crotons.

271
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.519
But also, they can't be scared.

272
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.000
What if they're just static electricity off his hair?

273
00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:19.680
Well, they're bottoms then.

274
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.059
All right, it's just getting far too silly now.

275
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:28.680
Does anyone does anyone have a kind of final statement?

276
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.099
Not really fast statement.

277
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:37.019
I just, the, the, um, the tribute to Terrence.

278
00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:39.180
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:43.859
Which delightfully was cut out of the BBC America broadcast for no reason.

280
00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:48.119
Oh, that's a shame because I thought it was really touching.

281
00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:49.319
Yeah, I thought it was good.

282
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.200
He would have hated creative.

283
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:53.519
Would have hated this last time?

284
00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.220
Well, yeah, I guess he did create the master, didn't he?

285
00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:03.779
And the master, of course, we're recording this on the 3rd of January, but the master appeared for the 1st time on the 2nd of January 1971.

286
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.640
Oh, there you go.

287
00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:06.059
Yeah.

288
00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:09.779
So, yeah, it's marked the 49th anniversary.

289
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.500
Yeah, the character's 48th. 49th.

290
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:14.099
What year is this?

291
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.960
Madam, what year is this?

292
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:16.380
Okay.

293
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:18.839
Not saying that right.

294
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.440
Look, 2013.

295
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:24.839
All right.

296
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:27.180
I think it's very heartening.

297
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:35.819
I think the episode, for me, because I was not a big fan of last year. was very heartening to say that Chris can actually do this better.

298
00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:40.440
And, um, so I'm hoping that he'll be able to follow through next week.

299
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:41.339
That's my main thing.

300
00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.299
Can we sustain this for a part 2 of the same quality?

301
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:51.299
Yeah, I think that's that will be the focus of what we talk about next time.

302
00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:52.920
All right.

303
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:54.900
Well, we might wind it up there.

304
00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:06.839
So, I guess all there is to say is just keep sure, sorry, just make sure that you're, you know, subscribe to the feed in your podcatcher of choice.

305
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:15.359
Don't forget to go back and have a listen to what we've been saying about series 3 on Flight Through Entirety.

306
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:22.019
And we will be back for Skyfall part 2 sometime next week.

307
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.819
Spyfall, whatever.

308
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.559
Part 2 sometime next week.

309
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:33.539
So until next time, please make sure that you don't use one of Planet Earth's many search engines to look up VOR. trust me.

310
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.819
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

311
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:36.660
Good night.

312
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:43.920
Good night. see you soon Brilliant.

313
00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:45.000
Okay, that's fine.

314
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.259
How do you how do we think that went?

315
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:46.799
That was all right.

316
00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:48.180
Oh, that was good.

317
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.920
I did mention my Yaz theory, but it can't wait.

318
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.079
What is your yes theory?

319
00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:54.059
Okay, my yes theory is this.

320
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.400
I think she's going to become the companion of the master.

321
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:57.299
Oh yes.

322
00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.220
No, I thought that too when I was watching.

323
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:00.539
Did you?

324
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:02.099
Yeah, because there's this whole thing.

325
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:07.619
I don't know why there's just too many touches between them and too many muttered comments and things that you don't hear.

326
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.500
And she is bereft after her whole experience.

327
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:11.400
I don't know.

328
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:27.180
Yeah, there's a whole flirtation and then there's the, oh, I thought I was going to die a bit, which is kind of, you know, when people go through life and death experiences, they hit on someone attractive who wanders past and Stockholm syndrome.

329
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:37.980
And then, yes, says there's that bitch towards the end as well where he says, you know, stick with me.

330
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.440
Like, um, yeah.

331
00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:42.059
Will she run off with him?

332
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:46.079
and maybe there'll be this, maybe the master's main character for the whole season?

333
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.519
That'd be awesome. would be great.

334
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:48.420
I don't think that one.

335
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.579
Well, there's no real evidence.

336
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:51.599
I just got that feeling.

337
00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:52.559
Yeah I don't know.

338
00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:54.660
He just needs to be in every single episode.

339
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:55.559
Yes.

340
00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:57.599
Yeah, needs to be a new season eight.