Hello, Delister, and welcome back to Jody and To Terra, the only
Doctor Who flash cast that once lived in the Australian outback
for 123 years before it all burnt to a crisp.
I'm Nathan.
I'm James I'm Brendan.
I'm Peter.
And I'm Todd.
So we are fresh off watching, what's it called?
SpyFall part one, which is obviously the opening episode of series
12 and obviously the 2020 New Year's special.
So let's just start by going round the horn and seeing what people
thought of it.
Todd.
Oh, oh.
Oh, oh, Omega.
That would have been a revelation.
Oh, look, I'm so...
I thought it would have been more of a revelation, would have been
oh, oh, Ogri.
Look, I have to say, I'm so excited. about Sasha as the master.
That's my highlight for the episode and I loved having the 2 big
name guest stars to sort of, um, sort of take your attention away
from him, I guess.
And I was really intrigued by the aliens because I kept thinking
are they the Vardens or the plasmatons, and then, and then when
they got in the plane, I'm thinking it's going to be the faceless
ones, and, uh, and I thought the regular cast, you know, all had
things, good things to do, and, I was, I was, it held my attention
like, like, and, and I liked it, and the 2nd time I watched it, I
liked it even more.
So, um, and, and the master got to say that the, the interior of
the TARDIS was ridiculous and I think it is ridiculous.
And so it's sort of an antidote thing and I thought that was, you
can poke fun at yourself fantastic.
So, yeah, that's my hot take on it.
It's like the moment where they started to say that Peter Capoldi
looked like a magician.
Do you know what I mean?
All right.
Peter, what do you think?
Well, it's very apt that we're Skyping into you from the
Australian outback today.
So we haven't seen any masters round.
So that's possibly good or possibly a bad thing in the case of
Sasha Dowan.
I would love to see him around.
Um, I was very heartened by this episode because I wasn't the
greatest fan of Chris Chibmall's writing last season.
I thought that the other writers in the team did a better job.
But this had a lot to recommend it.
Um, I still felt there were a couple of problems.
I still think that Chris has got a tin ear for dialogue and
particularly for banter.
But there was a lot to like as well.
It was quite tightly structured.
Um, the regulars were, Given quite a lot to do.
And it had some peace to it, which was a problem last year.
It really belted along, I thought, and reached that climax where
it just kind of, you know, I was looking around at the people I
was watching it with, and everyone was wrapped by that point.
And there's a way to a Doctor Who fan's heart and that was it.
Yeah, brilliant.
Brilliant.
What about you, Brendan?
Um, well, Coming off the back of what Peter said, a Litman test
for me is always how much Rod enjoys it.
Of course, and at the as the closing credits went up, he said
that's the best episode we've had since Capaldi took over.
Wow.
I heard someone on Twitter say best ones since RTD left.
Yeah, yeah, I saw that as well.
And on New Year's Day, I put up my series 11 retrospective video
on my YouTube channel and I don't think I'm exaggerating to say, I
think that, um, I'm probably the, the member of the podcast team
who enjoyed last season the most, possibly.
Maybe, maybe equal with James, but um, certainly, you know, I
enjoyed it very greatly, but even with that video I put up, I kind
of raised, there were 3 things I wanted to see improved, and one
of those was more for Yaz to do, which this episode delivered in
spades and shows just how good an actress Mandip Gill is, um, there
was also the fact that I didn't like getting references to
adventures that sounded more interesting than what we were seeing
on screen.
Now, what about the bike off though?
Well, the thing is, though, right?
That Bikoff reference?
It's one line which is immediately relevant to the upcoming
scene.
We have to know why they can ride a motorcycle.
Otherwise it's Sarah Jane with a rifle all over again.
And yeah, my other complaint was publicity and the public and the
and the team not revealing very much.
The publicity for this episode was excellent.
There was 2 trailers and 2 preview scenes and the preview scenes
didn't give much away.
They just sort of whetted the appetite.
But also, this episode proves Chris Chibnall's, perhaps, um, clamp
down on news and publicity.
Well, it might kind of pay off if we get reveals like the spy
master.
Oh, Brandon, can I can I say something to that as well, Brandon?
Because I was completely spoiler free with that and it had the
intended effect.
I didn't see it coming until the moment it happened and it was
great.
Yeah, I was not completely spoiler free and it was my own fault
because I looked on Twitter and I saw someone mention the master
and I thought, oh, is it possible?
But I was thinking it was going to be Lenny Henry.
Everything was leading up to it being Letty Henry, and then it's
Sasha Duan.
So that had that effect on me.
I'm very grateful to say.
But like Todd, I was I was thinking Vardens and Chameleons are
these things.
I now have a new theory, which I may come back to later if we have
time, but that's all I'm going to say for now.
What about you, James?
Look, I'm not going to disagree with you, Anna. really enjoyed
it.
And like you say, Brennan, I, you know, I think I liked the series
um, in 2018, as much as as you, if not more, but I could see its
flaws.
I mean, I knew it was deeply flawed, especially that that final
episode was just awful.
But I was, I was just, I was watching it in the car on the way
from Melbourne to Canada.
I felt a little sick at the end of it. mainly because of the
motion sickness.
I hope that that car didn't crash and then go backwards, long nose
away.
And look, I had had had the master spoiled for me about 2.5 , 3
months ago, like there were rumours going about that he'd been
cast as the master.
And I went, oh, well, you know, there's always rumours that
someone's been cast in the past and completely forgot about it.
I had forgotten about it as well.
I think I'd heard them too.
And it got, oh, you know, that would be lovely, but, oh, yeah.
And I'd not seen that he'd actually been cast.
And then when he popped up, I didn't remember until the moment he
says his name.
I just was like, oh my god.
I squeaked.
Sorry.
Smoke inhalation.
Yeah.
No, I really loved this episode.
I think it's worth mentioning just how expensive it looked too.
I mean, last year we had all that cinematography, which made it
look like prestige drama.
And, you know, sometimes you would look at it and think this
really looks as good as the show's ever looked, but often it would
have a small kind of, you know, guest cast and, you know, there'd
be a lot of walking around.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And this was like it was brightly coloured.
It just moved.
There were car 2 car chases, you know, like the casino scene was
fun.
The whole thing was just really super enjoyable.
Snap.
I love Jodie playing snap.
All of that stuff was good.
How did people feel about the regulars?
Brendan's already said that he was happy to see Yaz get a decent
turn.
I think that it was good to see stuff with her family and see her
be affected.
I was laughing at the father trying to get Alexa to work because I
got one for Christmas and was screening at the thing like he was
so I felt very connected with that.
Do you think it's a Yorkshire accent joke?
Is that it?
Like, it can't understand people with Yorkshire accents.
Yeah.
So, and I thought Ryan had a lot of good comedy stuff to do and
that is his strength and and Graham, I just enjoy Graham all the
time and he was great.
I loved Ryan turning to Graham and saying they're not toys
Graham.
I know, right?
I really liked Ryan's little bit in the casino where the 2 women
walked past him when he just won.
He was like, oh, hello, ladies.
Absolute dogs, like that.
Super embarrassing. that really sweet bit where, you know, Yaz
throws the dice and she's like, did I win?
And, um, oh, is like, no.
No, you didn't.
And they just have a little giggle about that.
It's just a nice little character moment. starts hitting on her.
Yeah, yeah, especially when you consider, oh, that's really
sweet.
And then, you know, 5 minutes later, it's like, oh, oh, no.
Oh, oh, no, no, no.
We like, we like him.
I have a theory about Yaz, which I'll mention at the end of the
episode.
Oh, money.
Yeah, no, I thought it was nice that everyone got a job to do.
And I actually kind of like the pairing of Yaz and Ryan and Graham
and the doctor because I think those 2 sort of work incredibly
well.
You know, as...
It's a bit like the Dr. and Tegan and Nissa and Adrick, really
isn't it?
Yeah, or yeah.
Sorry.
Do you know, it's that weird thing where in series 12, it's the
doctor and Harry and then Sarah wanders off and has her own
adventures.
Season 12.
Same thing.
I think actually if you take that analogy further to the original
Tartars team, Graham's got to be Susan.
No, someone was saying that Ryan was Vicky because he's kind of
the slightly vulnerable one who kind of gets into trouble.
Yeah, that was me.
Graham's Barbara.
Yeah, Graham, of course.
Yes.
I think it was DK from the Doctor Who show, who kind of objected
saying, yeah, but Ian did stuff.
I'm like, yeah, but Yaz is always wanting to punch people in the
face when they annoy you.
And she knows how to use a gun.
You know, that's the most, that's the most, I said, but you know
it's Ian specifically in the reign of terror.
God, when he spends most of the episode locked up.
Would a British policewoman know how to use a gun?
Yeah, yeah.
They'd have the training.
They're just not allowed to use them.
Yeah, it's all those Secondments.
She keeps skipping out on training.
All of that was actually really fun.
I loved Ryan's detached retina and things.
In fact, it's kind of, it's sort of interesting to see them play
with that aspect of it and I wonder whether it'll pay off, whether
there'll be something about, you know, them disappearing for long
periods of time and what effect that'll have at home.
I'm glad they reintroduced Yaz's family because I thought they
were really terrific last year.
Yeah, and can she scream?
She was great at the end screaming out the doctor as the plane was
going down.
I thought it was tremendous.
That whole sequence, that whole airplane sequence was just
thrilling.
So great.
So Timothy Dalton, wasn't it?
Like...
I was expecting, you know, John Barry to be John Barry's estate to
be ferociously ringing to do an a canola.
Like, there was even as we saw the sort of, it might be a
helicopter shot or something of the, or a big crane shot of the, of
the estate.
They're walking out of the vineyard into this.
And it's the doctor's theme.
It's Akinola's theme for the doctor, but done in the style of the
James Bond theme.
It was great.
Yeah, really is.
In fact, all of that stuff just worked tremendously.
Wow.
I thought.
So let's talk about the master.
Some of us were spoiled.
I was in the same position as James.
I think I thought I'd heard those rumours and I've been thinking
of just Googling it to see whether I just dreamed it or not.
But I'd completely forgotten, and when I saw the thing out the
window, I thought, oh, my God, surely, surely, surely Chibnell's
not bringing back the master.
I wanted to be Omega.
We didn't be Omega. creatures pushing through from another
universe.
I know, but he last appeared in the show in sort of 1983.
So it's not him.
Can I just say those creatures pushing through some other
universe?
Have a touch of the quarks about them.
If you look at their heads.
I'm thinking the Vord, and I'm not the only person to think that.
The alien vaude.
Yeah, they do.
And episodes build up to the Vaud return.
I think it's Vor...
Actually, I think that's almost certainly a Vor tech.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's vort tech, and I'm sure I found that somewhere.
It's like Arctic.
Yeah.
Yeah, look, Yartec, look, vortex.
Same thing.
Look, I hope I hope it's that because look, am I allowed to say
what VOR is on the internet?
Because you'll destroy my outro joke if you do.
Okay.
I mean, what a great choice to play the master.
Sasha is he's such a good actor.
I don't know if people have followed his career, but he started
off in the History Boys where he immediately made a big splash
along with the rest of the cast.
And then, of course, we own him from an adventure in space and
time.
But also, he was in um, the boy with the top knot, which was an
extremely well-received drama about two, 3 years ago in Britain
and uh, I've loved him like all through that.
I think he's fantastic.
So when he turned up at the episode, I was doing a little dance of
joy, and then he's the master.
I thought this cannot get better.
I was very young.
I wasn't spoiled at all.
And so, and so when he turned up and thought, oh, you're quite
famous, and I'm thinking, that's an interesting role, and but I
just kind of went, oh, you're going to be a red shirt. going to be
killed off at some point, you know.
So, so it took me completely by surprise.
So I was very excited.
Brendan, you expressed reservations, and I was watching you do
this after I'd seen the episode, but before you had.
Yeah, about the pairing of the doctor with a new evil post-Missy
master.
Yeah, mainly gods.
I was talking to a friend of the podcast and colleague of mine
Anson, who may be listening.
Um, and pretty much he, he answered it in particular, is a huge
Moffat fan.
He's not just a doctor fan, but he loves the Moffat era, and he
was the one who raised me.
Missy's arc was so perfect, that putting something, putting a new
version of the master after that might kind of spoil that a bit.
That got me thinking, well, there is no reason we couldn't have a
master between Ainley and Eric Roberts or Eric Roberts and Derek
Jacoby.
So I'm still kind of hoping for that earlier placement, awful
ambiguity, and we're not told.
But at the same time, if they came out next week and the doctor
said, why are you doing this to me?
The master said, you left me dead on a ship full of cybermen?
Yeah.
Why do you think I'm doing this?
You know, I'm not going to write the series off or anything, but I
think it could also be interesting with that, to have a master
where the doctor can't refer to John Sim or Missy, because it's
all yet to happen for him.
I wonder whether that's a bit too far.
Yeah, a bit too complicated because they've always met in order
haven't they?
Like, it's not like River song, they've just literally always met
in order.
I think...
Sorry, Todd.
Unless it comes down to all those multiple earths you see and his
thing about, you know, everything you know is a lie.
I mean, it's all connected to that.
Is he an alternate universe version of the master?
Or is this an alternate universe version of Doctor Who that...
So they can Redcon, the fact that she's vagina.
Yeah, it could be.
Or is he the master from the mind, Robert?
That is the master.
Brilliant.
So what are people expecting next week?
It looks like a change in venue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.
What is that time?
she's in.
Paris.
The Paris 1943, is it?
It jumps back to the 40s during the Second World War.
Oh, yeah. interesting.
I, yeah, I have a theory as to where the doctor has gone.
And because I was thinking, what do these things look like?
What do these things look like when Yaz was there?
And then after the doctor was there and we find out that the
master is doing tissue compression again, that little wonderful
bit with the matchbox.
That was hilarious.
Well, what, what if he, what if she's been shrunk down and she's
on his clothes or when I said this to Nathan earlier in the
master's hair because they look like strands of fibres.
And because Sasha has a very, very sort of lunch thick head of
it.
So we're doing a homage to Planet of the Giants?
Yeah, are we?
I read someone.
But there's also that electrical current going through.
Yeah.
Why not?
Yeah, you know, the doctor has the Doctor Who, in an exciting
adventure with some lice.
The electrical current did seem to be the Vord, though, didn't
it?
I mean, because they all kind of attacked Yaz, like she got
attacked by all of those electrical sparks and replaced the Vord
in that cubicle.
It is the vaude. spoil it.
Yeah, but you find the crotons.
But also, they can't be scared.
What if they're just static electricity off his hair?
Well, they're bottoms then.
All right, it's just getting far too silly now.
Does anyone does anyone have a kind of final statement?
Not really fast statement.
I just, the, the, um, the tribute to Terrence.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which delightfully was cut out of the BBC America broadcast for no
reason.
Oh, that's a shame because I thought it was really touching.
Yeah, I thought it was good.
He would have hated creative.
Would have hated this last time?
Well, yeah, I guess he did create the master, didn't he?
And the master, of course, we're recording this on the 3rd of
January, but the master appeared for the 1st time on the 2nd of
January 1971.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's marked the 49th anniversary.
Yeah, the character's 48th. 49th.
What year is this?
Madam, what year is this?
Okay.
Not saying that right.
Look, 2013.
All right.
I think it's very heartening.
I think the episode, for me, because I was not a big fan of last
year. was very heartening to say that Chris can actually do this
better.
And, um, so I'm hoping that he'll be able to follow through next
week.
That's my main thing.
Can we sustain this for a part 2 of the same quality?
Yeah, I think that's that will be the focus of what we talk about
next time.
All right.
Well, we might wind it up there.
So, I guess all there is to say is just keep sure, sorry, just
make sure that you're, you know, subscribe to the feed in your
podcatcher of choice.
Don't forget to go back and have a listen to what we've been
saying about series 3 on Flight Through Entirety.
And we will be back for Skyfall part 2 sometime next week.
Spyfall, whatever.
Part 2 sometime next week.
So until next time, please make sure that you don't use one of
Planet Earth's many search engines to look up VOR. trust me.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
Good night. see you soon Brilliant.
Okay, that's fine.
How do you how do we think that went?
That was all right.
Oh, that was good.
I did mention my Yaz theory, but it can't wait.
What is your yes theory?
Okay, my yes theory is this.
I think she's going to become the companion of the master.
Oh yes.
No, I thought that too when I was watching.
Did you?
Yeah, because there's this whole thing.
I don't know why there's just too many touches between them and
too many muttered comments and things that you don't hear.
And she is bereft after her whole experience.
I don't know.
Yeah, there's a whole flirtation and then there's the, oh, I
thought I was going to die a bit, which is kind of, you know, when
people go through life and death experiences, they hit on someone
attractive who wanders past and Stockholm syndrome.
And then, yes, says there's that bitch towards the end as well
where he says, you know, stick with me.
Like, um, yeah.
Will she run off with him?
and maybe there'll be this, maybe the master's main character for
the whole season?
That'd be awesome. would be great.
I don't think that one.
Well, there's no real evidence.
I just got that feeling.
Yeah I don't know.
He just needs to be in every single episode.
Yes.
Yeah, needs to be a new season eight.